"Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again." (sir-stig)
02/23/2018 at 14:38 • Filed to: Gunlopnik
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"Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again." (sir-stig)
02/23/2018 at 14:38 • Filed to: Gunlopnik | 1
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Explain to me why any civilian (keep in mind I’m Canadian, so 2nd amendment logic is not good enough) needs a semi-automatic weapon in this day and age? It seems like anyone using them for hunting or home defence could be just as easily served by a revolver/pump-action/bolt-action/lever-action weapon, and that’s not even accounting for the fact that firearms for home defence are flawed in the face of storing them properly (home invader isn’t going to wait for you to unlock your safes).
I have had a great time shooting all manner of guns, and short of varmint shooting I can’t think of any good reason to need more than 6-8 rounds at a time. Hell, the guns that are actually the funnest to shoot aren’t semi-autos, double action and lever action have got to be the funnest I’ve used.
Wacko
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 14:57 |
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As a Canadian I fail to understand the need to even carry a hand gun.
As a canadian I also don’t understand why they don’t have univeral health care
It’s like they just want each other to all die.
OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
> Wacko
02/23/2018 at 15:02 |
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I mean, you’re not wrong.
CobraJoe
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 15:02 |
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short of varmint shooting I can’t think of any good reason to need more than 6-8 rounds at a time.
There’s one valid reason (my dad emptied a clip on a skunk that was wandering around our farm when I was a kid, didn’t want to take a chance with that little critter), but what is wrong with owning a gun to shoot only for fun?
Considering us Jalops all want cars with abilities that go beyond what a “normal” person needs, it’s not hard to realize that a gun enthusiast might want a gun that goes beyond the “normal” needs?
However, that being said, I’m all for some sort of training or licensing or some other “proficiency and safety test” for those who want to own a high powered high capacity semi-automatic rifle.
StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8
> Wacko
02/23/2018 at 15:03 |
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Preaching to the choir (US citizen here).
Ash78, voting early and often
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 15:07 |
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Semi-auto? Because a deer is usually gone before you can chamber a new round. That’s the 90% answer. The other 10%? BECAUSE IT’s AWESOME!!1 (nobody really says this out loud, but we all know it)
For home defense, I’ve only ever considered a biometric safe next to the bed. Anything else is either too locked up or too risky for accidents. I never went through with it, though. With young kids, I just won’t take those odds. Same reason we don’t have a pool. One day, maybe.
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OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 15:07 |
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Ironically, I carry because of the fact that it is so easy for others to get guns. If guns were not as popular I wouldn’t bother and I don’t bother 80% of the time.
I live in the safest city in Tennessee but I don’t like going or sending my wife to certain parts of Nashville that we occasionally have to go to. I mean the Walmart put in a Valet because so many people were getting robbed in the parking lot... it’s just kind of crazy. If you need some help understanding a little better, I know a place in Atlanta where if you are driving down the street, you will get boxed in by vehicles, they will then drag you out of your car, and murder you. These are problems not every country has.
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OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
> OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
02/23/2018 at 15:10 |
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Side Note - I am for stricter gun control. I don’t mind waiting a few days to take one home if that means less crap happens.
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OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
> Ash78, voting early and often
02/23/2018 at 15:11 |
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That first part is a good point. Do I need 416 horsepower sedan? Nah. Is it fun to have? Definitely. Do I need an AR? Nah. Is it fun to have? Definitely.
Monkey B
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 15:17 |
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the most stable response I’ve yet to see is this one from a friend on FB
AR-15 shoots a varmint round that’s not legal to hunt deer with in most states because it’s too small. It’s not overkill, it’s not a weapon designed to kill as large numbers of people as possible, and I argue that if it belongs in the hands of the police it belongs in the hands of civilians too. I would accept both or neither, but a militarized police force and a helpless citizenry is not a recipe for human rights.
I’m a gun owner, but I’m not an enthusiast so I don’t know much about what I don’t have. What I am is an auto/moto enthusiast and others are just car owners. I see the need for Bugatti Veyron’s and Porsche 911's and Ferarri’s etc. etc. Those cars have capabilities far beyond the legal allowance on public roads...but we know that they are being driven that way. Regular car owners will never understand that.
Milky
> OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
02/23/2018 at 15:22 |
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I know a place in Atlanta where if you are driving down the street, you will get boxed in by vehicles, they will then drag you out of your car, and murder you.
I don’t believe you. At least outside of this happening one time.
-happy Detroit resident.
Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 15:27 |
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My shooting has been limited to pistols at the range and one time out in a remote part of NV for a little target shooting (bottles, milk cartons, old paint cans, and an empty and rusty old propane tank that wasn’t all that empty...) My only reason for wanting a large capacity magazine in those situations boils down to pure and simple laziness - it’s more fun to shoot than it is to reload, especially with the spring tension in some of those magazines.
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OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
> Milky
02/23/2018 at 15:29 |
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Milky
> OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
02/23/2018 at 15:35 |
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The guy had a gun and even said he would be dead if he pulled it out.
The good guy with a gun jargon doesn’t work.
*second link is blocked at work.
Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> Monkey B
02/23/2018 at 15:35 |
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I thought an AR15 shot a .223 or a NATO round. Totally valid for a deer rifle.
Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 15:38 |
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Lemme preface my answer with this: I am a very much liberal democrat. I have shot a gun maybe 3 times in my life, and 2 of them were with .22. And never with a Semi-auto. So I can get the outsider point of view, but I have a decent understanding of the argument
So Ill just go out and be brutally honest. Its because they’re fun, and fullout gun control wouldn’t really work for America. We just have to many guns, about 270-310 million of them.
According to Snopes, the Australians gun ban reduced guns by 625000 guns or 1/5th of their guns, which (according to Snopes) when scaled to the size of the US, would remove about 40 million guns. This ignores the fact that it cost Australia $500 million to do, which, costs about $800 per gun. In the US, removing *JUST* 40 million guns would cost $3.2 Billion.
But that still leaves at LEAST 230 million guns in the market. Even if we scale it up to a 75% success rate, that’d leave 67 million guns, and at a cost of $16 billion+.
Is it wrong to say, oh well it wont be perfect so we shouldn’t do anything? Absolutely not. We need to at least try. But a straight up black/white gun ban just wont work for us.
And I will say, your example of not needing 8+ rounds isnt very fair comparison.
Most people keep a home defense weapon by their bed side. And even then semi auto pistols can easily be justified for home invasion. Most stories of home invasion I read about usually includes 2-3 home invaders. In the dark. With adrenaline pumping, its not uncommon for most people to resort to point and shoot.
Accuracy isn’t exactly a good thing in those conditions, and you could use 15+ rounds easily. Not to mention, when your scared for you and your families lives, its not totally unreasonable to keep pulling that trigger until you know damn sure they cant hurt you anymore.
Now the reason for Semi Auto rifles resolves to the first thing, which is they are fun. No reasonable person uses a AR-15 for home defense, they’re honestly to big for inside a home. And I’ve never heard of people using AR to hunt, though I’m more then sure there are that do it just because they enjoy shooting the gun.
And, as awful as it is that guns are used to kill people, ultimately, the main reason is, human beings are just generally POS, and we will find any possible method to kill one another. If its not guns, its knives. If its not knives, its clubs. If its not clubs, we will literally resort to straight up hands to murder one another.
Overall, I think we as a country, fight for fairness. Overall, the greatest political divide in our country is ultimately over what is and isnt fair. Gun control is unfair to 1/3 of our country. Last year, 17250 people were murdered in one way or another. Saying that, its the 0.00005% of all people that are impacted by murders.
However, I will go out and say the system is broken. The NRA has its hand up the rear end of so many conservative politicans, it makes puppeteers look like amateurs. We need change. Its too easy to get a gun in our current system.
We need to restrict it so that only the people who fully and absolutely realize and respect the right to bear arms are granted access to it.
The NRA’s answer that its the price of freedom is stupid and BS, and shouldn’t be used as excuse to do absolutely jack shit.
I will say, trumps proposal to raise the minimum age to buy a gun is the first piece of legislation from him that I truely support, and gives me hope. Albeit it is a proposal, but still. Its a step.
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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 15:38 |
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Yeah I don’t know why you would need a semi auto. That being said one of the best recreational small rifles is the ruger 10-22. You can put a banana clip on those and shoot 22 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger.
Chariotoflove
> Wacko
02/23/2018 at 15:39 |
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There are some legitimate reasons why a non-police person would want to carry (I assume you mean carry and not just own). My uncle was a diamonds and securities courier on Manhattan for a time. He carried a 38 revolver in his belt as part of his job. When he left that field, he remained a gun owner, but he no longer carried his revolver.
My brother also worked as a bank courier for several years. That’s when he started carrying in a shoulder holster. He doesn’t have that job anymore, but he continues to carry. I think the feeling of being safer has stayed with him. I should point out that both of these guys were well trained in gun handling and hope and pray that they never had or have to use them on another human.
I personally have rifle and hand gun training, but I don’t own a gun, and never want to. It just isn’t tool I have a need for.
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Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
> Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
02/23/2018 at 15:41 |
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It varies State to state.
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Chariotoflove
> CobraJoe
02/23/2018 at 15:44 |
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This says it well. I don’t own a gun, but it is sometimes fun to shoot my brother’s when I visit. He has a British WWI rifle with huge rounds. Shooting it is a visceral experience, and expensive too. There is no reason to use it under any civilian circumstances, but I’m glad I get to use it.
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Wacko
> Chariotoflove
02/23/2018 at 15:49 |
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I own a shotgun, and want to by a .22 riffle, but for hunting and practice only. Even My air gun is locked up and has a trigger lock on it. (kids at home)
I basically only have my pellet gun to target practice in my back yard. and to protect my chickens from a fox(when i had chickens up to last fall)
MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> Chariotoflove
02/23/2018 at 15:58 |
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If you leave out the apostrophe in “brother’s” this comment has a whole new meaning
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MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
02/23/2018 at 16:04 |
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I’d just like to mention that AR-15s are regularly used for varmint hunting. They are precise, easy to shoot, don’t have too large of a round, and being semi-auto you can shoot quickly and rapidly.
Also, universal background checks and a license to own a gun should be mandatory. I am a gun owner and I have no problem with either of these proposals.
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OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
02/23/2018 at 16:04 |
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Great reply bud. Well thought out and balanced. As a note on the AR stuff, it is legal in a good number of states to hunt with a .223/NATO round. After my next influx of money from career advancement, I am purchasing one for the reason of hunting and target. They tend to be very easy to shoot and great for 100 yards or less which is ideal in our hunting lands.
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Chariotoflove
> Wacko
02/23/2018 at 16:07 |
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My dad has a rifle for varmint shooting as well. He grew up a farmer, and that’s just a tool you have.
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Chariotoflove
> MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
02/23/2018 at 16:08 |
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Well, I’m not gonna say that thought didn’t cross my mind a few times growing up, but the urge has faded with time, age, and distance.
Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)
> Ash78, voting early and often
02/23/2018 at 16:09 |
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If you need a follow up shot on a deer, then it deserves to live and you need to go back to the target range.
*signed: a guy who hunts with a Remington 700, and doesn’t miss.
Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
> Wacko
02/23/2018 at 16:11 |
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That’s pretty much the attitude of everyone from any other western democracy. Amused-but-horrified disbelief.
Nothing
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 16:23 |
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The whole point of a gun is to kill, that’s what it was designed to do. I’ve shot plenty of guns, I was in the military and shot more guns there. I don’t get the visceral experience others get from shooting a gun. Does it mean I think everything should be outlawed? No. It just means I don’t get it. I don’t understand why anyone needs a semi-automatic weapon. At some point, it just being “fun” doesn’t cut it.
And before people compare it to high HP cars, it’s not the same, the engineering purpose behind a sports car isn’t killing efficiency.
My bird IS the word
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 16:26 |
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It’s solely for “constitutional” defense. Self defense means you have to worry about overpenetration (going through your walls into a neighbors house) but that would be better served with, say, a semi SMG/ PCC than a rifle. large cap magazines are used for pest control. Realistically it goes down to the revolt argument.
functionoverfashion
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 16:42 |
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I just think it should be much harder to get a gun, of any sort, and especially a semi-auto rifle. There are a few here who pointed out that no one needs 500hp in car, but hell, it’s a lot of fun, right? Non-enthusiasts would just shake their heads and get in their Corollas.
But to operate a 500hp car, legally, you at minimum have to have a license to drive in the first place, which involves taking a test. Then, you need to GET a 500hp car, which costs a hell of a lot more than just about any gun, AND is designed to be SAFE for the people both inside and outside of it. Sure, you can still kill people with it, but it’s not the primary function. This kid in Florida, apparently, just walked into a gun store, perhaps had to wait a short time, but then went home with an AR. He would have had a MUSH harder time getting a GT500 Mustang.
I don’t think we’re ever going to remove guns from our society, but could we please, for the love of... well... everything... make it harder to buy one? Enthusiasts, hunters, homeowners who are concerned for their safety, they can all still just go get one, via the proper channels.
This wouldn’t solve all our problems, but wouldn’t it help?
MylesD
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 16:58 |
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I’m with you 100%. Unfortunately, I think that there’s been a self-fulfilling prophecy effect of sorts. In a vacuum, no...no one needs semi-automatic assault rifles and there’s no self-defense justification.
However, now that these things are so prevalent, it’s not as crazy as it used to be for someone who strictly follows the 2nd Amendment/self-defense argument to say “Well if that bad guy has one then I need one to defend myself since my handgun is outclassed.” Now they can justify the purchase and the cycle goes on & on.
Do I agree with that? Nah, that ain’t me. Does that mean that someone making that claim is incorrect? I would say they’re not wrong, though I’d wager that most self-defense type of shootings
are
not massive gunfights with dozens or hundreds of rounds of ammo but someone getting in one good shot.
Before I step off my soapbox, I will say that I’m continually amazed by those are unable to recognize that guns are absolutely part of the problem. Sure, there are other problems, but...man, how the
fuque
are guns not part of the problem? Random attempt to draw a parallel. We can ban three-wheelers because they’re more dangerous than a quad and acknowledge that the 3 wheel design makes them inherently less stable. We can blame the device and not the rider, but when it comes to guns there is this crazy-ignorant (and emotionally immature because ‘
how dare u talk
bout
mah guns)
wall that keeps far too many people from treating it like any other policy or safety discussion.
haveacarortwoorthree2
> Wacko
02/23/2018 at 17:07 |
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It’s like they just want each other to all die.
Survival of the fittest! MURICA!!!
wkiernan
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 18:03 |
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Listen, if the largest part of my self-esteem derives from leaping from rooftop to rooftop whilst costumed in leotard, mask and cape, don’t tell me, “Hey ya know you could wear a regular shirt and, like, Dockers, that would be good enough for all sensible purposes,” and expect me to be satisfied.
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Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
> OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
02/23/2018 at 18:39 |
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I’ll admit, I didn’t know that. I’m pretty sure in my state (PA) it’s illegal.
My grandfather owns an AR-15, but I’m pretty sure that hasn’t left the gun safe (much less chambered a round) since Reagan was in office.
Albeit, he also hasn’t hunted varmit since Reagan either so I wouldn’t know if he used it to hunt or not.
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Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
> MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
02/23/2018 at 18:46 |
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I honestly didn’t realize that they’re used for varmit hunting. I assumed (incorrectly) that shotguns were mostly used.
The only place I’ve been exposed to AR-15s are at the gun range, so I assumed it’s just for fun.
The fact that bothers me the most is, we have more regulation on who is capable to drive a car, or being able to board a plane, then we do for being able to own a gun.
The saying guns don’t kill people, people kill people is true.
But that doesn’t mean we can’t try and keep guns out of the hands of people who want to kill other people.
aquila121
> Milky
02/23/2018 at 19:10 |
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I’ll second that I’m really unconvinced by the “good guy with a gun” argument. Say that you’re in a public place, and you see someone nearby with a weapon drawn—if you’re a “good guy with a gun” and want to step in and stop some violence, the NRA-backed logic is that you draw/possibly fire on that person before they can cause harm. (But!) To another person in the same situation, they may only see you with a weapon, and assess you as the threat with a gun who must be stopped. If that second bystander is also armed, you suddenly need to worry about getting your well-intentioned ass shot.
The summary boils down to this: How often do you hear law enforcement officers (people who are supposed to be trained in firearms and threat assessment, and who are well aware of the stress/risks in situations with guns involved) say to those with their concealed-carry permit, “Dude, totally step in. You got this.” Fucking never. They say not to get involved, get safe, and let the police do what they need to do.
I sincerely wish that America would ditch the mentality of wanting to be John McClane in Die Hard . First off, that’s a goddamn movie, secondly, he was a cop. The asshole behind you in Starbucks is not prepared to whip out his Glock and stop a robbery. Mrs. Jenkins, the underpaid history teacher who works ungodly hours and puts up with high-school bullshit already should not be expected to *seek out, identify, and neutralize* [read: kill] a shooter should one come into the school where she works. Also, has no one thought of the liability aspect of arming the teachers? Let’s say that you have a large population of school staff willing to take additional time to go to the gun range, train/run drills, and maintain a proficiency of marksmanship deemed enough to be one of the armed teachers—in a hypothetical threat, what if they panic and shoot an innocent person? Hell, what if they just can’t get to the assailant in time and a dozen kids still end up dead? Lawsuits, I can promise you that. And those kids are still just as dead.
I’m the black sheep in my family because I don’t have a CCW, or a massive safe full of every type of gun I can get my hands on. And I’ve had some serious discomfort just being in the same room as a couple of people who I’m sure swear that they’re responsible gun owners (because what person with a gun would honestly say that they’re not?). As far as I’m concerned, guns are like nukes—I want less people armed with them, not more. Full stop.
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aquila121
> OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
02/23/2018 at 19:28 |
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I’m not going to argue that your comparison is without validity, rather I’d like to point out a disparity in the purpose of cars versus guns: cars are made to carry a person from point A to point B. A high-horsepower/performance/whatever version of a car accomplishes the same feat faster . A gun is made to fire bullets into a target with the intention of killing that target. Any variation of that weapon is still designed, in its most distilled essence, to kill.
To me, that warrants different approaches regarding the question of “is the fun version of this machine something that should be widely available to the public?” Also, we handle gun ownership and car ownership very differently as a society—licensing, registration, and insurance are mandatory (and randomly checked, in many areas) aspects of owning and operating a car. Though some enthusiasts aren’t wild about police patrolling for traffic violations, that’s much more prevalent than police checking for and enforcing proper firearms licenses, handling, and safe storage. I think if we applied that to guns it could be another step in the right direction of less accidents/instances of violence, as well.
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aquila121
> functionoverfashion
02/23/2018 at 19:32 |
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I’m sorry that I didn’t read this far before posting a response with a similar sentiment. You have my agreement.
Die-Trying
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 19:44 |
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southern border........ you wouldnt believe the unreal numbers of desperate illegals, that migrate through the territory EVERY single day. and they will, and do pick up and take whatever they think that they need. basically anything that is not nailed down. they come across by the dozens. them KNOWING that there is a good chance that the person living on the property just MIGHT have an automatic weapon that can fire round after round at them is about the only deterent that you really have for them to leave you alone. and HAVING one, helps you feel warm and fuzzy when you go to sleep......... you read any of the stories of what they do to americans down south of the border? beheadings and all that?........
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functionoverfashion
> aquila121
02/23/2018 at 20:05 |
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Cheers.
I mean, it’s insane how accessible guns are. I have used guns a fair number of times, and actually, I’m quite good at skeet shooting, despite having done it probably 5 or 6 times in my life. It’s fun, plain and simple. But never once have I thought that the 2nd amendment, or whatever rights you want to invoke, should extend to the ease with which one can acquire any firearm, let alone something like a semi-auto rifle.
TheRealBicycleBuck
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/23/2018 at 20:35 |
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There are a lot of professions where being armed helps keep you safe. My buddy has had a couple of incidents where showing his pistol prevented things from escalating.
I own several guns, but don’t have an AR-15 in my collection. However, I can see the appeal after shooting one. It wasn’t the number of rounds that was appealing, it was the ease of use and lack of kick that made it appealing. Even my wife was able to fire it accurately and repeatedly. She fired my shotgun once and said that was enough.
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MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
02/23/2018 at 20:51 |
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I agree with you completely I think we need better control with who can own what
Berang
> MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
02/23/2018 at 21:51 |
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I’ve heard from a hunting friend that AR-15 style guns destroy too much meat to be useful for hunting, unless you just want to kill things and don’t care. I dunno if that’s true, but nobody I know who hunts uses anything like them.
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MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> Berang
02/24/2018 at 00:08 |
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The bullets tumble, so yea they do. But if you’re hunting varmint you’re not looking to keep the meat just to kill.
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Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
> Monkey B
02/24/2018 at 10:33 |
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The difference between cars and guns is their root purpose. I understand the use as a varmint rifle, but saying it’s not designed to kill people is just completely untrue.
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Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
> Die-Trying
02/24/2018 at 10:37 |
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Is this satire? Because this is so over the top it’s verging on crazy.
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Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
> Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
02/24/2018 at 10:41 |
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Oh I know, I’ve shot that rifle several times, but I’ve have much more fun shooting a competition 22
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Die-Trying
> Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
02/24/2018 at 17:42 |
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these are the guys coming for work. they got numbers.
the reality is even crazier......