POLITICS: Wayne LaPierre, Murican Hero

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 02/23/2018 at 09:22 • Filed to: None

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Meanwhile, AR-15 carbine toting Barney Fifes will be posted in front of every public school in America. Great plan.

Happy Friday, Oppo. Now, get your children off to school.

Spanfeller is a twat > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 09:29

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You work with a school, right?

What do you think will happen in sunny California?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Spanfeller is a twat 02/23/2018 at 09:33

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I’m an 8th grade math teacher and a firearms enthusiast and the last thing I get paid to do is take a bullet for one of my students or “address” an active shooter with a firearm of my own.

We’ve got a serious problem and maybe, just maybe, some folks will wake up and recognize it and actually do something about it. What that is, I don’t know.

Florida is putting rifles in front of every school, or at least, authorizing cops to post with their rifles. It’s an absurd, extreme measure, but it beats arming teachers or seeing someone else’s daughter shot nine times in a school hallway.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 09:34

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Anyone who makes $5mil a year and walks around telling people the problems of the world are because of “elites” is guaranteed to be an idiot.

Spanfeller is a twat > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 09:38

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Its just insane.

I can’t think of a good reason to have firearms near a school...

Milky > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 09:45

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Hey NRA dude,

Maybe people are genuinely upset over the murder of children. The fact that you’re not says something.

I’m assuming its a coincidence that a “good guy with a gun” and arming teachers would make gun companies and yourself richer.

BigBlock440 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/23/2018 at 09:46

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I can’t think of a good reason to have firearms near a school...

Maybe stopping someone who does?

duurtlang > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 02/23/2018 at 09:49

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Not an idiot, it’s someone who knows perfectly well what his crowd want to hear and has no problem with lying his ass off or being a horrible hypocrite. “Us against them” is a very strong propaganda motivator, especially among a frustrated crowd.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 02/23/2018 at 09:50

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I don’t make $5 mil a year... Wait: are you talking about me?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 09:52

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I think that’s what we’ve come to, honestly. I don’t like it, but it’s what we’ve come to. And it needs to happen very soon.

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 09:52

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Whenever one of these soulless cowards “warns” us about “socialism”, I want to puke. How much does this piece of garbage make in his “job” of playing on the fears and insecurities of the masses? He’s a millionaire via a con, and has never answered to anything. Trash.

Arming teachers is a funny one, too - I can think of numerous teachers, especially at the high school level, who didn’t really seem to be “all there” nor always able to handle the kids, and I don’t know if I’d want them packing heat on one of their bad days.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Milky 02/23/2018 at 09:53

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Consider just not engaging. We’re all too raw right now and his pseudo analyses won’t help us feel any better.

Spanfeller is a twat > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 09:57

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You can’t drawn in an empty swimming pool

Textured Soy Protein > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 09:59

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Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 10:00

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We need to repeal the second amendment. It’s more trouble than it’s worth.

BigBlock440 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 10:07

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In an ideal world, it wouldn’t be necessary, but we don’t live in an ideal world. Unless you’re talking a 100% complete ban on firearm ownership, there will always be that risk because society is fucked up these days and violence is normalized and accepted. And even with a 100% ban, those same fucked up individuals will still be there. Maybe their desire to do these things will be tamped, but with the amount of planning they seem to be doing, I doubt it. At this point, all we’re talking about is reducing the number of causalities, not stopping it, which leaves adding a layer of protection at the schools (I can’t think of anywhere that’s as open and soft of targets), or complete elimination of firearms so their options are knives, axes, or bombs (or a bow like that guy in Oregon).

Milky > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 10:08

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I don’t need to feel better. But actually about the NRA guy, if someone stands to profit from their viewpoint, don’t trust what they are saying.

facw > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 10:15

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Great add a million guns to schools. Maybe you stop a bad guy. How many of those guns will be stolen? How many will be accidentally discharged? Will you guarantee that no one with one of those guns will have a bad day a pull one on an annoying student?

It’s an absurdly terrible idea, even if they would be helpful in preventing a shooting (and it’s really not clear they would be, Columbine had an armed guard, so did Parkland)

fintail > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 02/23/2018 at 10:20

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It’d also be interesting to see what he pays in taxes. We know what pays his meal ticket.

BigBlock440 > facw 02/23/2018 at 10:21

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So you propose doing nothing then? And since there are already armed guards (usually one, who was outside in the Florida instance) how many of their guns are stolen or accidentally discharged? As for guaranteeing no one will have a bad day and pull one on a student, do you guarantee no one will have a bad day and bring one to school and shoot dozens of students?

BigBlock440 > Textured Soy Protein 02/23/2018 at 10:23

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We need to repeal the first. Root cause, not a symptom.

Ash78, voting early and often > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 02/23/2018 at 10:23

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So most white liberals. And a solid chunk of conservatives, notably the lawmaking, influential ones.

I’m waiting for the day when working class liberals and conservatives look at the people pulling their strings and say “Hey, we may not agree on everything, but we’re tired of being represented by elitist douchebags.”

Textured Soy Protein > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 10:24

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Nope.

facw > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 10:25

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I propose gun control!

But besides that, yes if you pay for guards, you’ll get a higher standard (though again maybe not good enough) compared to arming teachers. You’ll also pay vastly more, you are talking about a guard force the size of the Army. Personally, throwing more guns at the problem seems a terrible idea.

Party-vi > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 10:29

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This fucker also implied that the NRA is one of the largest law enforcement agencies in the US based on their membership.

WRXforScience > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 10:41

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Half measures and “reasonable responses” won’t get the job done, we need to go all the way and get rid of guns like Australia, Scotland, and the UK. Semiautomatic rifles and handguns only make our country more dangerous.

If you want to play with guns you should have to join one of our well regulated militias (sheriff organizations, National Guard, and our volunteer Armed Forces).

No grandfather clauses, loopholes, or exemptions should be proffered, we need to start negotiations from the same extreme, uncompromising, entrenched type of position as our opponents. We’ll probably need to start a new national organization that rates, threatens, and bribes elected officials from local level elections all the way up to the President.

These toys are too dangerous for us to continue to ignore.

BigBlock440 > facw 02/23/2018 at 10:41

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What exactly are you proposing? We already have gun control.

Textured Soy Protein > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 10:46

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The fact that we can’t 100% eliminate guns is not a reason we shouldn’t try to reduce the number of them in circulation and make it harder to buy them.

Even if we don’t get to a 100% ban on guns, we can certainly benefit from getting closer to it.

benjrblant > Party-vi 02/23/2018 at 10:46

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Law enforcement agency? The NRA?

Wacko > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 10:48

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funny how the american solution to guns is add more guns.

that is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

you know what actually works, ask Canada, Australia, Germany, Great Britain. don’t have to go as far as Japan did, but I think you get the point.

Party-vi > benjrblant 02/23/2018 at 10:53

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He implied that, due to the high numbers of members that were in-fact LEOs, the NRA could be considered a de-facto law enforcement agency. Because he is a shit head.

“We’re one of the largest law enforcement organizations in the United States if you look at our membership. And we’re proud of that,” were his exact words, because he is a massive fuckwit.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 11:10

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I share your views.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 02/23/2018 at 11:12

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Yes, but Parkland’s armed guy was frozen in the parking lot due to fear, lack of training, confusion, or some other reason. I’m going to go with inadequate training.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 11:12

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This is the right sort of question, asked in a constructive way.

facw > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 11:13

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We have some gun control, clearly we need much more. Obviously anything we can get is better than what we have now.

Personally, I would like to see a ban on all semi-automatic (and fully-automatic weapons). This would be expensive (we would obviously need to buy back weapons from owners).

Failing that (which realistically is not coming without major changes), I would like to see a requirement for gun owners to carry significant insurance that would pay out if their guns kill or injure someone (except in cases of self-defense or suicide), even if the gun is lost or stolen. This creates a situations where gun owners can’t divorce themselves from the negative externalies of their weapons. I have no idea what such insurance would cost (obviously it would vary by owner), but because insurance is a competitive market, it should be linked with the actual risk associated with the gun. Having such a system would imply the need for a gun registry, which I know some gun owners would be bother by, but frankly I don’t think it’s unreasonable to know who has deadly weapons (I wouldn’t publish the list like NY did a few years ago though).

Now that is probably also more than we can expect it the current climate, which takes us to an even more limited set of restrictions, that would still be better than nothing. Specifically, I want universal background checks (including second hand sales). I want limits on the number of guns that can be bought and sold over a given time period (this is to limit straw purchases, so maybe becomes less important if we get good enforcement on background checks for second hand sales). I want more detailed background checks, with more disqualifications. I want more funding for integrating systems into the background check DB so we don’t miss things because they haven’t been properly reported. If an instant background check results in a hold, I want to make sure resources are in place so that the hold is reviewed in a timely fashion instead of just letting it expire. I’d be happy to see magazines limited to 5 or 10 bullets. All of these things seem to me like they would be helpful in reducing gun crime, without imposing massive burdens on gun owners. I realize gun owners may feel differently, but I haven’t heard arguments for why these are bad ideas, beyond the slippery slope argument. Given that I clearly do want more restrictions, maybe they are right to be worried, but doing nothing (or throwing more guns at the problem) doesn’t seem like it will help anything to me.

Rico > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 11:17

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This doesn’t happen that often in many other societies so why ours? What’s wrong with our society and our citizens? Maybe it’s too much freedom that’s making people lose all sense of control? Is it something in the food? The water? We’ve got the highest rate of mental illness/mass killing ratio here, why is that? Is it genetics?  

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Wacko 02/23/2018 at 11:20

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I’m not sure that argument works because those countries don’t have a Second Amendment; the gun culture isn’t baked in like it is in this country.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 11:22

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He was (well, I don’t know what was going through his head, but clearly he wasn’t rushing it). The question is how much training you need to overcome that. He was a Sheriff’s Deputy, he most certainly had more training than a lot of people, and still acted the way he did. Training a vast force of guards (for a scenario that will almost certainly never happen to almost any of them) would be vastly expensive (though still preferable to arming teachers in my opinion).

And of course, once you’ve done so, even if your guards are perfectly efficient, many students could still be killed before they realize what is happening and respond. And beyond that, to the extent you have protection, you’ve only protected the school itself. A shooter could just as easily kill everyone on a school bus, at an off campus event, or really anywhere that doesn’t have persistent armed security. If our solution to mass shootings is armed guards, then we need to look at having armed security anywhere where more than a handful of people gather.

I’d rather have it be harder for people to obtain guns, especially those capable of shooting off large numbers of bullets in a short time.

450X_FTW > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 11:23

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Quote from George Carlin:

“He’s still one of their major spokesman, and his name is Wayne LaPierre. Doesn’t that sound a bit fruity to you? “Hi, I’m Wayne, I’m a gun person. Bang bang!” You know what this guy’s name ought to be? Biff Webster. Spud Crowley, a man’s name! Chuck Steak!”

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Spanfeller is a twat 02/23/2018 at 11:30

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No, but you can drown in two inches of water in a bathtub. And you can fall into a pool and break your skull. (But I take your point.)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Ash78, voting early and often 02/23/2018 at 11:32

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They’re too busy watching Fock Snooze and falling for Russian trolls — read: gullible and stupid — to ever get where you’re looking.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail 02/23/2018 at 11:33

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I’d like to see DOTUS’s tax returns. It’s funny what that guy gets away with because he just thinks he shouldn’t have to be bothered.

Wacko > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 11:34

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well that’s america’s problem, this is what must be changed, until then keep on watching your children/population get shot over, and over and over again.

the second amendment is killing your children, it is not protecting you.

until america changes that, nothing will change. we are nolonger in the 1700-1800s

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 11:36

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It especially irks me that he lambasted Mitt about tax returns, but now lacks the stones to provide his own. His “under audit” excuse borders between cop out and outright lie. But his base will fall for it every time.

I’d also be amused to see his school transcripts, as he whined about Barry’s.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Party-vi 02/23/2018 at 11:38

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Like “fuckwit,” I believe “shithead” is properly written as one word. And that one word is my favorite moniker for POTUS 45.

Personally? I’m a firearms enthusiast. But we have a problem and schools are not adequately protected from that problem. I used to belong to the NRA until after Sandy Hook. Then I quit. And it took a protracted effort on my part to get them to remove my name from their various mailing lists.

But to your point: to claim that NRA is a de facto LEA is outrageous. That’s taking the Constitution and the Second Amendment and turning it into a wet dream.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 11:41

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I think our views are pretty well aligned on this, based upon your comment.

Sam > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 02/23/2018 at 11:43

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Literally my first thought when I heard him talking about liberal “elites” was “Dude, you and the other NRA leadership are elites too!!!!!”

Party-vi > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 11:44

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I too enjoy some gunpowder based recreational activities (ever shoot a S&W 500? It’ll knock your socks off) and I too don’t feel the NRA represents me or my interests when it comes to firearms regulation (or a lack thereof).

Spanfeller is a twat > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 11:49

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Armed police is probably the best compromise until gun legislation that lets reasonable gun owners have guns and unreasonable people not have them is enacted

Spanfeller is a twat > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 11:51

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May I direct you to my Gunolololopnik post and more directly to the comment section. Good reasonable arguments from both sides

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 11:52

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Some thoughts that I’ve been extruding from my rectum:

A brief Google search tells me that there are on the order of 90,000 public schools in the US, as of 2013-14. Are there 90,000 sworn officers available to post one in front of every school, daily? I doubt it. So what we’ll wind up with is a privatized force of “security guards” with shorty AR-15s and ballistic vests. Dudes with “guard cards?” If you ever want to see an eclectic batch of humans, stand in on a guard card class sometime. Yikes.

I don’t know how long the barrel was on the AR that did the dirty work in Florida. Sixteen inches, maybe? Eighteen? Assuming it wasn’t a carbine version. The POTUS made a remark about how, if that one coach had had a firearm, he could’ve stopped the shooter. Well, what would he be carrying? A 1911? A Desert Eagle in .50 cal? Probably something very compact and easy to conceal. 9mm or a .38 five-shot revolver. Or an Air-Lite. Something along those lines. Up against a crazy person with an AR and multiple 30-round magazines? Sounds like a great way to add oneself to the list of dead. And I think it shows profound ignorance on the part of POTUS 45.

Liberals don’t know squat about firearms, so their knee-jerk reaction is to make the rest of the country, like them, gunless. And that’s not the answer. We are not Australia, which has no Second Amendment.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 02/23/2018 at 11:56

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There are something like 90,000 public schools in the United States.

BigBlock440 > Rico 02/23/2018 at 11:58

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Depends on where your societies borders are. If we go by country, we’re larger and more diverse than nearly anywhere else. Just by sheer numbers, we’re going to have more of anything.

Other societies have to worry about general survival or not pissing off their governments, others are used to being ruled, others are closer to a police/surveillance state, etc. Other societies have their own problems. Also, we’ve got everyone around the world commenting on our internal policies by way of the internet, so you’re seeing a ton of voices of people who have no skin in the game or are actively trying to sow dissent. And because all of our rotten underbelly is exposed to the world, unlike every other country that’s too small to have the presence America does. I stay out of other countries politics, I expect most Americas also do, so we don’t see other societies underbellies like the world sees ours. Other societies don’t have HIPPA, don’t have the 4th amendment, don’t have the 1st, etc. It’s really too broad to say what makes them different from us.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 02/23/2018 at 11:58

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I like the insurance idea. But bad actors aren’t likely to buy any.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 12:02

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Sounds about right, but of course there’s no reason you wouldn’t need to guard private schools as well, if you went with the armed guards proposal.

BigBlock440 > facw 02/23/2018 at 12:07

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Obviously anything we can get is better than what we have now.

Its not obvious, what should be obvious is that “anything we can get” won’t change shit. Even if your proposed ban on semi-auto firearms, you’re still giving them free, unopposed reign to roam the halls with a shotgun, revolver (or several), a lever-action or pump action rifle, etc. How much damage do you think someone could do with them? See Columbine for one example. Or how about free reign with an ax or machete? Your “solution”, even taking it to your ideal end, is still just talking about mitigating damage, and not actually preventing anything.

BigBlock440 > Textured Soy Protein 02/23/2018 at 12:10

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So you want to but on a band-aid and not actually stop putting your hand in a bucket of glass.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Rico 02/23/2018 at 12:11

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Those are precisely the questions that the gun lobby keeps our society from trying to answer. Why? Because they are afraid of the answers?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 02/23/2018 at 12:15

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When I was growing up in Virginia, there was a road in Virginia Beach where people were speeding all the time. So a home owner made a plywood police car fender and placed it against the bush at the edge of his yard. A very good facsimile of a Va Beach cop car, it was; a ‘95-ish Crown Vic...

Anyhow, it had the effect of greatly reducing, at least empirically, the number of speeding cars.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Wacko 02/23/2018 at 12:16

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You do not have to tell me that. I just don’t know what to do about it because guys like Wayne LaPierre.

Textured Soy Protein > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 12:16

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Dude, you’re talking nonsense.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail 02/23/2018 at 12:27

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Pretty much what you said.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WRXforScience 02/23/2018 at 12:28

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Good luck with that because Second Amendment, unlike Australia or any of the other nations you mention. Not that I entirely agree or disagree with you, just Second Amendment is unique and a game changer.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 12:31

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Depends what you mean by bad actors. The gang member who buys a weapon on the street wouldn’t (though insurers would presumably charge lower rates for people who can show they keep their guns secure, so maybe that gun never ends up on the street), but for example Cruz bought his guns legally, and would have been part of the system (there’s always some risk of driving legal purchasers to the black market, but most people aren’t going to go that route). For him, insurance would definitely have been more expensive just because of his age and gender (much like insuring a sports car is not cheap for a young man), though who knows if that would be enough to deter purchases. Other factors like his school record, and maybe even his health information could come into play. It’s hard to say, since it would all be market driven, but ideally, it would end up influencing his decision on which guns to own, if not his decision to own guns entirely. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Party-vi 02/23/2018 at 12:34

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Ruger Super Alaskan in .454 Casull. I fired it with some 300gr loads and whatta handful. That’s my favorite gun of all.

The NRA doesn’t represent me, either, thought I’m sure they’d claim they were or are. I quit after Sandy Hook and it took multiple phone calls to the NRA headquarters to get them to remove my name from their rolls. And when I joined? They sent me a lock blade knife with eagles and stars and stripes all over it and a MADE IN CHINA sticker prominent on the box.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 02/23/2018 at 12:35

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Good points, all. We have a problem and more (private) guns doesn’t sound to me like the ideal answer.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail 02/23/2018 at 12:36

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Absolutely nothing, not standard of comportment nor honesty, applies to this man. And when they do, he’ll pardon himself. And he loves that this bothers honest people like you and me. He rubs it in our faces.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Spanfeller is a twat 02/23/2018 at 12:37

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That’s pretty much what I’m saying.

facw > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 12:41

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It is just mitigation. I think that’s unavoidable with the 2nd amendment. Guards are also mitigation. Many people could still be killed before a guard could respond. Part of me would like to just go ahead and abolish the 2nd amendment and ban all guns (except for law enforcement, though with guns banned, they wouldn’t have much need either), but two things hold me back from that. One is that while most guns strike me as unnecessary, there are some places where they are actually used, and hey even though I don’t get hunting, and find it needless cruel, I do feel bad about saying I’m just going to take away a past time that’s loved by millions. More importantly, I think repealing any part of the Bill of Rights sets a very dangerous precedent. I don’t care about the 2nd amendment, but I certainly don’t want the 1st or 4th weakened and their are definitely people trying. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 02/23/2018 at 12:42

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I use “bad actor” very loosely. In this case, a cretin who wants to go wipe out a bunch of adolescents in a high school. Or the guy who shot 500 people in Las Vegas. Or was it closer to 600? What of any of these “reasonable” solutions would have stopped that one?

And in the case of Florida, the guardians had a safe and the guns were locked in it, but Junior had a spare key to the safe.

So when all the guns are taken away, I’ll be at the front of the line to surrender mine because I sustain the laws of the land.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 02/23/2018 at 12:43

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They can hire their own.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440 02/23/2018 at 12:44

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Do you have any ideas? I don’t.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 12:50

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Fair enough, as you might guess, I am also strongly in favor of good public schools, and extremely suspicious of attempts by private school advocates to siphon away resources. 

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 12:53

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It gets worse every day. His adult children are just as loathsome, too.

It’s time to chant “lock him up”. This is the worst regime in American history.

WRXforScience > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 12:59

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The second amendment is about militias, not personal weapons. The rights to self-defense were based on English Common Law which were the same for all those countries.

The Second Amendment:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

If your arms aren’t being used as part of a well regulated militia, you aren’t covered under the 2nd amendment. You can’t just ignore the first part of the amendment, it’s the part with the explicit intent of the amendment.

No one is advocating limiting the arms of State and National Guard, local police/sheriff, or the Armed Forces who collectively represent the well regulated militia that the second amendment applies to.

There are plenty of precedents in the first 200 years of the country where individual rights to weapons were limited and deemed to be outside the 2nd amendment, only in the last 50 years has the 2nd been twisted into a bulwark against public safety.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 02/23/2018 at 13:02

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And I am a public school educator and I take satisfaction in holding a batch of views that are split to both sides of the sociopolitical aisle.

I don’t have any answers to any of this and little in the way of suggestions. The only power I have it to keep smart people engaged in meaningful discussion about it, bridging where I can.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail 02/23/2018 at 13:03

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They’re like some nightmarish version of the Clampetts. The midterm election ought to be very interesting.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 13:15

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Wayne LaPierre rails against monied liberal elites*

*makes $5 million a year as President of the NRA

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WRXforScience 02/23/2018 at 13:25

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Certainly, the language of that amendment strikes me exactly as it strikes you. But haven’t the courts interpreted otherwise? More than once?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 02/23/2018 at 13:26

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And your point?

JK.

WRXforScience > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 13:31

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They ruled that slavery was legal, that minorities can be imprisoned indefinitely without charge, and that forced sterilization of criminals or the mentally impaired was legal.

The court is wrong until it is right.

I tried to allude to the change in attitude, basically through the 1950's the Supreme Court not only recognized that limits to personal weapons was constitutional but that the argument that the government couldn’t regulate weapons because of the 2nd amendment was absurd. The political rise of the NRA and social fears associated with integration gave rise to the mess that we are currently enduring.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WRXforScience 02/23/2018 at 13:35

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You clearly know more about this aspect than I do. To me, the language in the amendment is plain, but I’m not an attorney. I am stunned by the turnabout that the country has taken in the past year. Absolutely stunned.

WRXforScience > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 13:38

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From Wikipedia:

(This is the older, 2nd amendment rulings against guns for everyone)

In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that, “The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence” and limited the scope of the Second Amendment’s protections to the federal government. [9] In United States v. Miller (1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment did not protect weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia”. [10] [11]

(This is the newer rulings in favor of the NRA and its bullshit)

In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court handed down a landmark decision that held the amendment protects an individual right to possess and carry firearms. [12] [13] In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), the Court clarified its earlier decisions that limited the amendment’s impact to a restriction on the federal government, expressly holding that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment against state and local governments. [14] In Caetano v. Massachusetts (2016), the Supreme Court reiterated its earlier rulings that “the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding” and that its protection is not limited to “only those weapons useful in warfare”. [15]

So, the Supreme Court bears a large part of the responsibility for the epidemic of mass shootings in the last couple of decades. You cannot carry a weapon into the Supreme Court, Congress, or the White House, even if you want to help protect those individuals who guaranteed your “rights”.

Spanfeller is a twat > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 13:54

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Right now we need to focus on stopping the death of teenagers.

It is, without a doubt, the number one priority before we get into a dumb fight about the rest.

WRXforScience > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 13:57

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The meaning of the comma itself has been debated. The entire amendment is a perfect example of how a group of people (the original authors) can come up with a simple, short and mutually understood statement that when interpreted by others becomes a contextual nightmare with no clear meaning.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WRXforScience 02/23/2018 at 14:13

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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/us/oxford-comma-maine.html

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Spanfeller is a twat 02/23/2018 at 14:21

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That’s exactly my opinion.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > WRXforScience 02/23/2018 at 15:37

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yeah but out of all those countries you mentioned american unfortunately has an amendment right to bear arms. thanks founding fathers

Tapas > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 02/23/2018 at 16:28

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The word “Liberal elite” coming from a dude whose name combines Batman’s last name and a french gigolo’s last name (presumably) is the definition of irony.

Spanfeller is a twat > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/23/2018 at 22:44

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The thing is that... I’m worried that some people might conform to only that rather than fixing the root of the problem

There was a shooting in Mexico City’s UNAM today, two people killed each other on campus. Everyone went a bit nuts over it. Which is great.