There aren't that many Black car enthusiasts and it sucks

"LJ909" (lj909) 02/16/2018 at 13:22 • Filed to: None

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Source: Kingofcarsandcoffee.com

Disclaimer: This might hit some nerves IF you understand or know where I’m coming from. If not, just understand this is my perspective. Any questions comment below of course.

Back when I was looking at Focus ST’s, I attempted to see if there was some kind of ST tuner community nearby. Being SoCal I assumed there would be. And there were a few. I ended up finding some Youtube Channels as well of people that lived in the area. Out of the ones I found, there was 1 guy that was Black. Now some people that might want to sweep the issue at hand under the rug or try not to acknowledge it might say something along the lines of “Well why were you purposely seeking out other Black people?” That’s not what I was doing. But in the event that I did do something like that, I wouldn’t find many and that’s the problem.

For as long as I can remember, I was always aware of the fact that there weren’t’ that many people that looked like me in the automotive enthusiast world. Not only as a hobby, but in racing as well. But I think overall this just speaks to a diversity problem as well. Most times it was a blatant reminder, as in stares. Not stares as in “you shouldn’t be here.” But weirdly to me, it was stares of “yea you’re the only Black guy here”. Here and there there were stares of “what are YOU doing here, especially in places with expensive cars. From Cars & Coffee to local meets (and even then there MIGHT be 2 or 3 other Black people) to auto shows and performance events , it can be a little bothersome.

There are 2 main problems as to why I think I don’t see or encounter very many Black people in things dealing with cars, aside from very specific things like Lowriders, but that’s a whole separate thing in of itself:

Cars as symbols of wealth: For one,culturally, many Black people see cars as more of a display of status or wealth. For instance, you won’t really see an upper level management Black man in an C63 AMG, but you will see one in an S Class or other luxury sedan. Luxury and status over 0-60 times and high horsepower. You ever wondered why so many Black people favored Cadillac’s and Lincoln’s?

Different incomes: It’s no secret the unequal wealth distribution in this country. It’s also no secret that Black America income wise has been dead last. When you look at income levels by ethnicity, the gap widens greatly. Often time then some people don’t have the luxury or excess funds that are required to even be able to start something like say a car restoration or investment in tuning a car. That’s why things like Classic Car shows are stark White for the most part, or tuner meets are starkly everything but Black.

Now I have encountered some older Black men that are into cars, my father for instance. But when you get to my generation and younger, you’ll find the same thing I stated above: more young Black men like cars as a show of wealth and status than as a hobby. Go around to different late night meets up here in Southern California, and you’ll be hard pressed to see even 5 Black people. I’ve had friends/family members that would rather have an E Class as their first car, than a an S2000 and tune it. Why? Because an E Class at a young age can make it seem like they got it like that. An S2000 to them is a Honda before anything else, something that’s equatable to a Civic. Even online auto publications like Jalopnik, Car & Driver, etc have very few if any Black automotive journalists or writers ( I think Jalopnik has like 2 contributors).

Would I like to see more Black people as car enthusiasts? Of course, but things have to change. We have to feel like we are going to be welcomed into the fold and we have to be genuinely interested in it. I’m not saying that there AREN’T Black enthusiasts, I just would like to see more from time to time so it doesn’t seem like I’m the only one.

Shoop > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:31

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Your statements seem to echo what i to experience.

LJ909 > Shoop 02/16/2018 at 13:32

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It sucks that we are the only ones who notice and understand why we notice it. Everyone else will try to explain it away with some bullshit.

MonkeePuzzle > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:37

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from title and lead image I totally thought this was to be a debate about the colour of car, and how black cars are harder to maintain a clean look on

LJ909 > MonkeePuzzle 02/16/2018 at 13:38

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Yea I wouldnt waste my time with something like that.

TorqueToYield > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:39

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I think those are pretty jalop. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

For Sweden > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:39

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Oh I definitely would #BanWhiteCars

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:41

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Disclaimer: I’m a white guy

Your points make 100% sense to me, and I agree that there definitely needs to be some change within the openness and accepting nature of the culture. We’re seeing it happen more with women now, but I think a lot of people are either ignorant to the fact or unwilling to admit that there are biases towards POCs as well. Hopefully we will see that realization come forth more broadly and change start to take place as a result.

Arrivederci > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:42

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It’s true and in my anecdotal observations, I really agree with what you’ve recognized as well. I do notice quite an age disparity, though - at classic car shows and cruises, I usually see quite a few more older black men and women than younger men and women at tuner events, meet-ups or Cars and Coffee.

LJ909 > TorqueToYield 02/16/2018 at 13:42

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Yea and its unique. But I have encountered people that look down on Lowriding and Donks specifically for no other reason than they are a predominantly Black auto activity.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:42

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Speaking from Asian American perspective here.

Asian distribution at car meets are hit and miss. There is some penetration of car culture, but they tend to prefer, you know, Asian brands as enthusiasts, so they’re a little rarer at say, the Fiat meetup. Local Subie meetup I went to, I was the only Asian, ever, which is weird cause that wouldn’t happen in Cali.

Scottsdale Cars and Coffee over here in AZ is pretty big, but I have maybe yet to see more than one or two black people out of crowds of hundreds. For 12% of the population that seems an under representation. I think you may be right about the cultural causes of why there is a lack of black enthusiasts.

In the southwest I see many hispanic, white, and asian enthusiasts, but not a lot of black enthusiasts, and it would be nice if that number was higher.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:42

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i was gonna try and splain it away with some bullshit.... but come to think of it.... i only know 2 black car guys.. one has a matte black e30 the other a 90 some polo with white rims.

(both of them dress better than the other car guys i know.. myself included:p)

LJ909 > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 02/16/2018 at 13:43

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Thats exactly my hope. Cars should be the one thing, like music, thats welcoming to all no matter what you’re into or who you are.

SmugAardvark > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:44

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You absolutely have some excellent points.

Not to disparage anyone, but I can definitely see some parallels between what you bring up and a similar line of thought regarding female car enthusiasts. At least in terms of the feeling of being somewhat unwelcome outsiders.

I wish I had solutions, but I unfortunately don’t. I’m white, so I can’t have an honest frame of reference for how you feel. I’ve never known what it’s like to experience institutional racism (or even casual racism), and to pretend like I can truly relate would be absurd. I can imagine though that it’s awful. It really is a shame that car culture isn’t more inclusive. Every group I’ve been a part of has had representation from every race and both genders, but still has been largely made up of white males between 25-45 years old. I’d like to see that change, as I can appreciate anyone that has a passion for anything automotive.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:44

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Makes sense to me. The car cultures that blacks tend to draw towards are show rather than go. It’s a case not of they aren’t welcome, but one of they aren’t attracted to. Gearhead “racism” isn’t about the color of the skin, but the color of the block...

LJ909 > Arrivederci 02/16/2018 at 13:45

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And it varies by geographic area as well. Here where I live in SoCal, I can see a Classic Car show in the parking lot of a grocery store on a Saturday morning with nothing but old White men walking around. But then you can drive just 30 minutes away to Orange County that same night and see a meet up with nothing but Hispanic or Asian guys with JDM cars. But even in both of those instances, there will be a hand full of Black people.

LJ909 > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 02/16/2018 at 13:47

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Yea you are right. Being in Cali, especially with the JDM meet ups, its usually predominately Asian and Hispanic, or just outright Asian if you are in somewhere like Long Beach. But even when there is diversity, there isnt diversity with Black people. Many times I’ve been the only Black person at these places and it almost makes me feel like I stand out for some reason. I know I shouldnt feel that way but I do.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > For Sweden 02/16/2018 at 13:48

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No way. White is an excellent color on many cars.

Arrivederci > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:48

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Great point - I’m in the South, so that might impact some of my observations as well.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:49

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Black Car Enthusiast RIGHT HERE!

I believe it’s dependant on location, because I have quite a few black friends that are enthusiasts and there are plenty in the Metro Detroit Area. That said it varies what kind of cars. We’ve got STs, Volvos, BMWs, and everything under the sun here. It’s funny, the reactions people would have when I was driving our 911 or my 944.

Unfortunately Modern shitty rap about Buggati’s and Merceds and whatever else, Televangelists with Rolls Royces they just have to have in order to spread the gospel, stupid celebs like Chris Brown and Floyd Mayweather Jr set the precedent stereotype for black people loving gaudy and expensive things annoys me to no end.

And then there’s donks......Don’t get me started on these stupid things. Not all black people are like this! We’re diverse enthusiasts dammit! :p

LJ909 > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 02/16/2018 at 13:49

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Like you’re friends, I’m always either the one or one of the two Black people my non Black car guys know. I suspect you aren’t the only person like that.

LJ909 > SmugAardvark 02/16/2018 at 13:50

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Thanks for saying this and genuinely understanding where I’m coming from.

random001 > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:51

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Do you feel that the culture is not welcoming? Or are there just not a lot of black people interested? Because those are two very different issues.

McMike > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:51

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Same could be said about the motorcycles.

They still have “bike week” and “black bike week” in some cities. I know Myrtle beach has two separate weeks. Not sure about Daytona Beach or any of the other regularly scheduled rallies.

Not sure I agree with the income angle. You can be an enthusiast at any income. It doesn’t take an AMG to be a car guy.

Urambo Tauro > MonkeePuzzle 02/16/2018 at 13:52

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Same here. I was even going to protest that black paint makes even the most mundane cars look cool. I saw a black Chrysler 200S just the other day, and it looked so good that I forgot for a moment that it was a 200.

LJ909 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/16/2018 at 13:54

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Yea it does vary by location. But I like the point you made about rap culture. That’s one of the things that mess up a lot of Black people being into cars. It makes everyone want to be about all show and not appreciate the actual performance of what the car can do itself. You think half of these rappers car or appreciate the engineering that went into making their Ferrari or Lambo go 0-60 in under 3 seconds? No. Its all about I go money and I’m gonna flaunt it that’s why I got this half million dollar exotic. It sucks.

DipodomysDeserti > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:54

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Love this post. I definitely notice the generation gap in regards to black car enthusiasts. Income level seems to play a role along with stereotypes that people hold towards young black men and women with nice or interesting cars. I’d love to see more diversitywithin car scenes.

McMike > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:54

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I LOVE DONKS.

Well, not to drive/own, but to look at. I would probably be the most annoying guy at a DONK show. I would be like a seven year old, peppering all the attendees with questions like:

Where do you get your lift kits? Trucks?

Do you carry a spare?

Why do you like Snickers so much?

Do girls like these cars?

What kind of jack do you have to change a spare?

How big of a wheel can you fit on before you have ti lift it?

Did you do any of this work yourself?

Why did you choose this car to do it to?

Is that ostrich?

Did you do any work to the engine?

ETc, etc, etc......

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:55

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no... its probably far too common.. but as im white it never struck me as odd till you mentioned it

(i only have 2 friends tho... both of em are white and wont leave me the fuck alone no matter how hard i try to get rid of them........i guess thats what makes em friends)

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 13:56

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Living in the suburbs of one of the most segregated cities in the US I can definitely agree with your assertion that black people are few and far between at any car shows, meets, events, and races I’ve been too. Which is sad, because finding common ground is the best way to get over stereotypes that are reinforced in the media and by peers.

On a lighter note, I definitely read the title as “ black car  enthusiast” and not “ black car enthusiast”

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > For Sweden 02/16/2018 at 13:56

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I must disagree. White over red is a wonderful combo

Dogapult > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/16/2018 at 13:58

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Donks are pretty bad. But on the other side, lowriders. Lowriders are cool. The level of detail that goes into most lowriders makes me very happy.

LJ909 > random001 02/16/2018 at 13:59

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Both and they can go hand in hand. Let me explain

For one, the culture has seemed like its not welcoming in some instances. Like when I described the looks of what are you doing here. Judging me off the color of my skin because I’m looking at expensive cars all on the assumption that I shouldn’t be there because of said expensive cars and the color of my skin.

Black people aren’t interested to a large degree I think as well. Like I was saying to someone else, as far as the younger and my generation (Millennial) is concerned, rap has played a part in that. Cars are for show. There isn’t an appreciation for the performance or driving experience. Its all about flaunting money. Chris Brown could car less that his Veyron is one of the fastest cars in the world. Its more “I can afford a million dollar Bugatti look at me”.

They go hand in hand because on one hand you have this misconception about Black people being ghetto, thugs broke etc or some people think that we are all into Lowriders and Donks or are going to cause trouble because of ignorance and things like rap. That leads to the culture no being welcoming, especially with older White men, who dominate it.

Die-Trying > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:01

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PLENTY of black car enthusiasts......... most just happen to like a different segment........

unless i misunderstood what you meant by “black car” enthusiast..........

LJ909 > McMike 02/16/2018 at 14:02

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Yea but that’s changing. i see a lot of middle aged Black men on those expensive ass Harley’s blasting oldies. But then again the meets and stuff are still segregated.

The income angle is true though. You can be an enthusiasts at any income yes, but to actually participate in that you have to have money. No disposable income isnt going to leave room for you to be able to buy that classic car to wrench on and drive on the weekends when you need to put food on the table.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:02

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My friend Jhae over at oneauto has been up and down the country as an enthusiast and I bet he would have more comprehensive points on the topic than I do, but I don’t know if he posts on Oppo.

For Sweden > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 02/16/2018 at 14:03

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Of course someone like you would say that -_-

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:03

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Hell, most of those rappers are in debt or bankruptcy because they try to maintain this pathetic showboat image! None of their cars get repo’d or taken as assets which sucks. They only appreciate the badge and nothing more and right next to young and rich car YouTubers as people I don’t care for. And none of what they do I hardly consider talent. With autotuned voices and lyrics I can’t understand or hear, and a message that stereotypes and makes black people look like the equivalent of redneck hick trailer trash. Except it’s all about sex, money, drugs, bitches/hoes, shots and pops and guns and whatever else. It’s so stupid. If you can’t tell, I hate most to all modern rap, and rap as a whole unless it’s actually got a meaningful message, like Eminem.

For Sweden > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 02/16/2018 at 14:03

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Barbaric and complcit

LJ909 > DipodomysDeserti 02/16/2018 at 14:03

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Thanks.

Stereotypes that people hold towards young black men and women with nice or interesting cars.

This is why you will see a police presence at Black car meets like with Lowriders and not for things like Cars & Coffee or classic car meets. At best if you do see a police presence, its to ticket the dumbasses that leave C&C doing burnouts.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Dogapult 02/16/2018 at 14:04

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They’re better in the sense they can probably go over a pothole and not bend a wheel, and actually make a decent daily driver to my mind. I can handle lowriders. They’re even better than StanceNation, bro!

LJ909 > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 02/16/2018 at 14:05

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Well not that I brought it to your attention, pay attention to that kind of stuff. It happens and its around more than it should be.

BigBlock440 > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:05

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I dunno, seeing pictures from Detroit shows or races, or Oakland, or SLAB/donks, seems like there’s plenty of ‘em. Watching a Pass Time near Detroit, or Roadkill Nights, or even Street Outlaws when they have their inter-city meetups, seems like there’s quite a few in the drag racing scene anyway. I don’t really go to shows much, so I can’t say from experience there, but I don’t live near any major metropolitan areas, so I’m not sure it would make a difference if I did.

random001 > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:06

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If it helps, older white men aren’t the most welcoming to me, a younger white man. I stopped going entirely to shows with my Z06 because it had *insert gasp here* over 150k miles on it, and saw regular track time more than it saw waxing time. Not kidding about that. Not to diminish your experiences, but I think a lot of that is not a racial thing and just because old white people aren’t nice to non-old white people.

I don’t know. Like I said, I’m white, but I’m also a massive nerd. I have a physics degree, if that tells you anything. Outside of Oppo, most car culture is not dominated by nerds, so I don’t fit in either, just for different reasons. Sadly, I just stopped trying to fit in with “car cultures” because I didn’t feel welcome, so I’m no help.

JustAnotherG6 > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:06

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I have always enjoyed a well executed lowrider. The amount of time and dedication not to mention love that go into those machines is truly astounding.

And while I appreciate Donks for being a bit contrarian at the same time I feel they are a bit too... contrived... maybe? I’m not sure.

LJ909 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 02/16/2018 at 14:07

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Racing the lack of diversity gets even more glaring, especially with NASCAR but thats a given.

Yea sorry about the title. I could’nt think of any other way to phrase it.

LJ909 > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 02/16/2018 at 14:09

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Yea I bet he would since hes been all over. I’m sure hes noticed it. It’d make a great discussion.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:10

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roger wilco

LJ909 > BigBlock440 02/16/2018 at 14:11

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Yea it varies geographically, but even then, what you mentioned, like Slab/Donks, Lowriders etc, are a specific subset of car culture that is and always has been predominately Black. You have to look at the other parts of Car cultutre which make up a bigger part of it to see the lack of Black people there.

LJ909 > random001 02/16/2018 at 14:15

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Yea I get you’re point. A lot of those older guys appreciate the cars but baby them to the point where they don’t drive them, which makes you question how can you appreciate something you spend so much time on making sure it stays pristine. You’re an outlier because you use the Z06 for its intended purpose.

But the flip side of that though is that you are White and you wont really ever be the only one at car stuff unless you go to something like a Lowrider show.

Die-Trying > McMike 02/16/2018 at 14:15

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i wish i had more stars for this, i’m about the same way when it comes to asking stupid questions on some of these cars.......

LJ909 > JustAnotherG6 02/16/2018 at 14:16

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Yea lowriders are something special. As a kid I helped my uncle work on and show off his 76 Regal lowrider. It was great.

But I feel you on Donks. Always have, especially with my family being from the south where its prevalent.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > For Sweden 02/16/2018 at 14:20

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You can’t own a Countach that doesn’t match the color of your drug of choice.

Sovande > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:21

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Interesting article on a topic I have never really considered. I am new to attending cars and coffee events (I just bought a car last spring which I like to take to a local event just about every weekend with my son). The crowd is predominantly white, though there are always black people there as well. I guess I have always equated it to a local racial makeup thing? If the local population breakdown has four white guys for every black guy it stands to reason that would also be the representation at local meets? If there are 20 cars, for instance, 5 of them are there with black owners.

As a counterpoint, I rent a garage in a group of about 10 units. Three of the units are in use as places where people work on cars every weekend. I am the only white guy and the rest of the guys are black.

itschrome > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:22

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I mean, is it an issue if they just choose a different way to appreciate cars? like you outlined most of the black dudes I’ve ever been friends with are way more into the flash and status of cars than the performance of them. I think it’s more of a cultural thing, it doesn’t mean they like cars any less, they just like them in a different way.

LJ909 > Sovande 02/16/2018 at 14:24

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It does have something to do with demographics. But the flip side of that is when it comes to cars, most of us enthusiasts will agree if we can, we will go to wherever something dealing with cars is going on. But this has happened for too many years for this to be specific. Im thoroughly convinced that there aren’t a lot of Black people into cars for various reasons and that a lot of these things dealing with cars aren’t that welcoming as well.

LJ909 > itschrome 02/16/2018 at 14:26

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Yea its one thing to appreciate cars differently of course. But its glaring the lack of Black people at the things. Could that be a direct result of the differing appreciation of cars? Of course, but that’s a whole other story.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:26

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Full disclosure: I’m a dumb white guy.

Your points are well made and match up with my observations.

I work with a Black car enthusiast who has a 74 Porsche 911 2.7 Carrera in his garage. He used to go to the Camel GT races at Charlotte Motor Speedway in the 80s.

At the classic shows I see more Black people of the Boomer generation, and those people are more into muscle cars and the like.

At the same time, the “car as a symbol of wealth,” still has its place among enthusiasts, and I would say that the guys who ride around in Donks or an Escalade on 26+ inch wheels are also enthusiasts, although in a different way. Although it’s not my cup of tea, some of those cars are really cool. I think a lot of the hate they get are because it’s something that came out of Black southern culture. A lot of white people don’t like stuff just because it arose from Black culture.

The first Donk I ever saw was in about 2002. It was an early 70s Caprice or Impala convertible in Carolina blue with 23" wheels, a tar heel logo on the back, and a big vinyl 23 on the trunk. I figured it was just a Michael Jordan super fan. Anyway, there are shows that cater to that crowd on a regular basis here in the Charlotte area.

I wrote about an experience that showed me my own biases and how I should examine my thinking before making a judgement about a person. I don’t know where I was going with this.

I don’t know what it’s like to be Black in America, but stuff like this can bring us together. I’m sure there are few Oppos who would have ever considered even speaking with a trans person of color before they were here, but Miss Mercedes seems to be welcomed by all.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > For Sweden 02/16/2018 at 14:26

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What if it’s white, but there are colored accents and/or graphics?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > For Sweden 02/16/2018 at 14:26

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What if it’s white, but there are colored accents and/or graphics?

McMike > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:31

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Oh yeah, I didn’t mean the bike weeks were exclusive. There’s a handful of black Harley bikers. Vests, patches, and everything.

I love it. I love that there are more people participating. That means we all have more to choose from other than pirate/cowboy leather with tassels and power ranger sets of leathers.

Love it that the apparel lines are so diverse.

JustAnotherG6 > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:31

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I had an ‘84 Cutlass in HS. It was no where near as cared for as a lowrider but I put that thing through hell and repaired everything I could and then some myself.

Future next gen S2000 owner > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:34

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This is a good example of phrasing. I read black car enthusiast when I should have been reading black car enthusiasts. See my confusion below.

diplodicus > Urambo Tauro 02/16/2018 at 14:38

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I think the Chrylser 200s biggest problem is that it was a chrysler. I’ve never driven one or even been in one though so maybe they really did blow.

LJ909 > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 02/16/2018 at 14:38

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Thanks for your points and understanding. A lot of white people look down on Donks and lowriders and find them tacky before een trying to understand why or getting into them. I’ve even heard comments about how they think those people ruined those cars, convenientely forgetting that one could say the same to some old man that wanted to put a small block in an old Willeys Jeep. It always comes back to race.

And I remember reading that article. It was great that that made you come to your senses about misconceptions. It was great. And yes Miss Mercedes seems to be welcomed by everyone and I think its great. Cars should bring everyone together no matter what.

BigBlock440 > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:39

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I’m not sure what your area demographics are like, but I suspect that geographics are your biggest issue. I’m more into the drag racing thing, and the crowds are certainly more diverse when you hit them metropolitan areas, so I wouldn’t really say there aren’t that many enthusiasts. I remember even in high school, my group of friends were into the muscle cars, but there were still black kids into cars, just of the tuner/FNF variety. But it’s not something I specifically looked for, so *shrug*.

LJ909 > BigBlock440 02/16/2018 at 14:42

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Im in Southern California so its fairly diverse. But when it comes to cars it splits. Using your example of drag racing, I grew up about 20 minutes from the Pomona drag Raceway, 15 minutes from Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, and 30 or so minutes from Irwindale Speedway. having gone to all of these for various events over the years, it has almost always been an all 95% white affair sadly, especially drag and Nascar.

Shoop > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 14:45

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As a white guy i cant say anything about it, so i tend to just ignore.

Shoop > Die-Trying 02/16/2018 at 14:47

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I think he ment performance enthusiast

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 15:13

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It’s kind of weird that this is the Southeast, but the car community here is incredibly integrated. Yeah, we all may have different styles, but we all get along. There isn’t much of an income line either, I would say most of the more expensive cars that come to meets are POC owned.

AM3R, lost another burner > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/16/2018 at 15:16

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Check out curren$y if you want to listen to rap that doesn’t just talk about Bugattis and stuff. He’s a bigggg car guy. Has rapped about some obscure cars/parts of car culture. Goes to meets all around New Orleans with his lowriders, and he recently bought a new z06 from my cousin who works at a chevy dealership.

RPM esq. > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 15:19

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I really enjoyed your post. I too would really like to see a more diverse car scene and as far as I can tell (note: I’m white) it depends a lot on what meets you go to. The biggest cars-and-coffee type show in my area (which happens to take place in a suburb that is very white and Asian) seems to be attended by a pretty diverse crowd EXCEPT for black enthusiasts, and I had wondered why in the past. Your post may have helped explain it: that show focuses on exotics and high performance, mostly European, with just a few especially rare or classic or high-performing muscle and tuner cars. So of course there wouldn’t be much there for anyone primarily into those things, or lowriders, or luxury for the sake of luxury.

On the other hand, there is a big show every summer that caters primarily to muscle cars and classics, with a much smaller section for European performance cars and such. Along with these excellent gentlemen , there are a few lowrider clubs that come every year. At that show I stop wondering where all the black (and Pacific Islander, a big community here) enthusiasts went.

And then there is the whitest show of all —not because they’re exclusive, just because apparently the only people who love British cars are old white people.

LJ909 > RPM esq. 02/16/2018 at 15:26

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Thanks. But yea most C&C’s I’ve gone to has been everything but Black. And if the diversity is there, there still isnt Black people.

Thanks for the link to the OldRidersClub though. They look like they are super chill, especially with them playing Domino’s like that.

Die-Trying > Shoop 02/16/2018 at 15:32

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the interesting thing, is that i have met a good number of “black guy” car enthusiasts. they are usually older guys, in thier 40s, but they have all had a wide variety of cars that they were building.

car guys are where you find them.......

Not a Sunburst Miata > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 15:33

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To spiral into another discussion, isn’t it interesting how certain races/cultural groups always end up with the same types of cars?

I’m middle eastern and I’m one of the only middle eastern dudes I know who has a Subaru. BRZ, but still a Subaru. Most of the other ME guys I know are very into BMWs and Infinitis.

A majority of my east asian friends stick to Hondas/Hyundais

Almost all of my white friends like the pony cars.

Its interesting...

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 15:36

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I think there potentially many black enthusiasts, but for various reasons have chosen to not participate in the “scene” due to social barriers. I live in an allegedly liberal area, but the black population has been getting pushed out of Seattle for nearly two decades. There’s also the amount of rich people moving in, virtually all of which are white, indian, or chinese. Other than a few old NSX’s, all the cars are 6-figure cars.

I also think part of it is also the desire to fly under the radar. Avoiding confrontation with other drivers, and especially, the police.

I listened to an interview of a former NFL player regarding his playing days in Detroit. This was still in like 2008 or something. Anyway, he got pulled over twice in one day in his new Mercedes C63. He was asked (if you can call a loaded rhetorical question asking), “How can someone like you afford a car like this?” He was detained for an hour even after producing a license and registration. I don’t think it’s a reach to figure out what the “like you” part was all about.

Not a Sunburst Miata > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 02/16/2018 at 15:37

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I thought the same thing when I first saw the title. All of my cars with the exception of one have been white.

LJ909 > Not a Sunburst Miata 02/16/2018 at 15:38

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Nah I’ve noticed that too. These are all oberservations I’ve made from where I live in Southern California regarding that:

Middle Eastern always have luxury cars, mainly BMW and Mercedes

Asians tend to stick with Asian brands, with young Asians being heavily into JDM to the point where its almost exclusive. They do go for the Germans though and Genesis has been on the rise with them as well.

Mexican/Hispanic middle class families tend to buy last gen Honda Accords a lot along with Altimas wile Mexican males will be into JDM and muscle cars.

Black people tend to like luxury cars no matter the year. Millennial aged Black guys have no problem driving a first gen Mercedes ML or an S Class.

LJ909 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 02/16/2018 at 15:42

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Yea social barriers are a big one. And what you mentioned leads to less Black people being seen anywhere period.

Flying under the radar is a big one too. I cant tell you how many predominantly Black car meet ups I’ve been to that had a police presence for no other reason than Black people were gathering in one place. And that happening to that NFL player is yet another instance of DWB: Driving While Black and its happened to all of us, especially in nice cars. You’ll get stare downs, full on u turns and have the cops follow you for a few miles then pull off when they see they dont have anything, or out right pulled over.

Long-Voyager > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 02/16/2018 at 15:55

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I prefer it over Purple.

Long-Voyager > diplodicus 02/16/2018 at 15:56

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In V6 form they were really nice. Honestly the 4cyl wasn’t even bad for an econobox.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 16:20

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Thank you for posting this. It is something I very much have observed but never really thought about. I really wish it was something no one had to think about, but sadly, it is.

This isn’t really a question that can be answered short of a complete culture change. But, what do you think would help get POC interested into the performance/ driving aspect of car enthusiasm?

While I truly can’t understand your discomfort being the only Black person at a meet, I can certainly understand why you would feel that way. I personally do not have any Black friends that are into sports cars. If any do care about cars, it’s mostly luxury, like you mention. Is inviting them to ride along on canyons runs a start? Maybe, but it does not go far enough. I really don’t know how to help this problem, even on a local level.

I hope our generation can be the driving force for diversity among fellow enthusiasts. After all, the more enthusiasts in this world, the better it is for all of us.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 16:25

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PS, are you on the email list? You should definitely try to make the next canyon drive.

LJ909 > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 02/16/2018 at 16:27

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Thanks.

I think to get more Black people, especially young Black people, Millennial aged like myself and younger, into cars is going to take some self reflection first. We have to get out of the flaunt and show of things being about money and status. Show that 14 year old who sees the Ferrari’s and Lambos and Bugatti’s in the rap videos on on IG that you can appreciate the car for what it does performance wise and how great it is to drive. And that’s its more than just an instrument to show others you have money.

Inviting them on canyon runs would be a great start. Show them what the car can do. Let them know that to truly appreciate the car and immerse themselves in the driving experience. Get pass the badge.

LJ909 > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 02/16/2018 at 16:27

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Which email list?

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 16:36

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Here is the link to the post. WWD (41%) typically coordinates it. I’m terrible about making plans haha

LJ909 > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 02/16/2018 at 16:42

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I think you might have forgot the link lol.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 16:44

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That makes sense. The problem seems like it is self perpetuating a bit. You are lucky to have your dad, who is into cars. It seems like Gen X is not raising gear head millennials. So I can imagine it is even harder to join the culture when you didn’t grow up around cars, your friends aren’t into cars, and there are cultural barriers. Hopefully, cars will become those uncool things our parents drove and our hipster culture starts liking them, because they are uncool.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 16:45

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I’ll blame that on kinja, even though I 100% forgot the link. I copied it, then forgot what I was doing haha

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/los-angeles-oppos-meetup-and-mailing-list-1821714137

RallyWrench > LJ909 02/16/2018 at 16:53

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Excellent and thought-provoking post, thanks.

I’m white as can be, and I spend a lot of time at the track and around classic cars (in addition to working in the industry), and this has crossed my mind more than a few times. It’s struck me as the playground of the rich white man at the high level. You go to events during the Monterey week and it’s a sea of white people, for the most part. Just the clothing changes, depending on how expensive the event is to attend.

As far as the racing scene, it’s probably slightly better than the classic car scene, but still dismal with regard to diversity. Racing, especially, is a rich guy game. Sports car racing in particular operates on the whims of wealthy men who want to play race car, and that leads to a discussion about income inequality, because a black person is far less likely to be wealthy enough to go racing on any level. I’ve only ever worked with two black guys on teams, one as owner/driver and one as mechanic, but only ever seen a handful working elsewhere. It’s depressing. If you go to the drags, or the dirt track, or off road events, or whatever, it seems to be even less diverse.

The demographics have also interested me because I now run a small repair shop, and in the 22 years I’ve been here we’ve only had one black guy apply, and it was a kid for a shop help position (we’ve also only had one woman apply, another industry problem). Almost all our “enthusiast” customers are white men (a couple of women), with a bunch of Asian and Latino guys who are super into cars, even more gay clients who are car nuts than black guys. I can’t think of any of our black clients who we might call more than casual enthusiasts. Many that are into their particular car, as in, they keep it nice and like driving it, but not the kind of people to talk cars, read the magazines, check Jalopnik, go to a C&C, car show, track day, or tune it, you know? Not that they’re less of an enthusiast, by any means, but their demographic won’t be represented when you look around at an event. 

Granted, I’m from a painfully white area in California, but it’s apparent there just aren’t many black folks into cars, and I’ve wondered why. Tons of Asian and Latin people on the scene, but it’s still majority white and practically zero black. Maybe I’m in parts of the scene that don’t appeal, as you alluded to? I mean, the ratio at lowrider events is much better (and the cars are F’ing AWESOME!), but I think that’s because we do have a very large Latinx population here that probably does a much better job including people than whiter scenes. But also as you mentioned, on aggregate that still doesn’t make a dent in the “car scene” at large.

I don’t know what I can do to improve the situation, but it’s definitely come to mind for me. Thanks for fostering the discussion.

LJ909 > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 02/16/2018 at 17:03

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Thanks for this ill definitely shoot out an email to come out. It works out great since I’m local.

LJ909