It's the gearbox, stupid.

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 02/11/2018 at 22:10 • Filed to: None

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I can write what I think of the Kia now. But where to begin even?

It’s a Kia Stinger, if you have been under a rock for the last two years, here are the basic specs:

3.3L Lambda II v6 engine with twin turbochargers
In house tuned 8 speed automatic transmission that feels very fast
Rear wheel drive with limited slip differential
Power stands at 365HP and torque at 370lb-ft
It’s a heavy car at 1740kg.

Now, what really renders me numb about the Kia is that, I thought I knew what 365HP felt like in my jeep, what 400 felt in a Maserati, I thought I knew 570HP from a Ferrari felt like and what turbo lag felt like from a 993 Turbo.

But the Kia isn’t a Porsche or a Maserati, you don’t expect it to be fast, no matter how many fake vents and plastic exhaust pipes it has, it’s a Kia. It’s the underdog, not the established. Which makes it a bit odd that it lets the driver light up the rear tires at the slightest push of the throttle. The first day I drove it I made a promise to myself: you will not turn into that guy . The Kia makes keeping my promise both easy and incredibly hard.

It makes it hard because the first day I drove it, a very chilly morning, I took it out on sport plus mode, which was a mistake because it scared me. It spun up it’s tires at the stoplight and would unsettle at any sharp corner if you asked it to. The often complained about understeer was no where to be found. Its a car that requires a driver far better than I am in sport plus because it will do all those things that we see in the movies or in Top Gear. It also makes it hard because no one suspects Kias are fast, so you get away with everything, if people hear your tires squeal, they look at the guy in the BMW or Audi with disgust, not at you. Its a car whose manufacturer name and exhaust sound feel so benign that you couldn’t be the one doing such a mess.

Not that it will last for long, people are starting to get curious about it, back when I was smog checking it people asked me what it was, when I told them it was a Kia they answered “Yeah, I know it’s a Kia, but what kind of kia is it?” Plus, those who know what it is hate it, because they bought their 340i BMWs or s4 Audis to be faster than anyone, and they had to spend a premium on it.

Its a bit too much to ask of me that I stay on the left side of the rev range because all that teen-foolery was kept down with that Jeep that would scare the living crap out of me any time I had to brake or take a corner hard, it was so high up that being a lunatic was out of question because I had something most teens did not have: a sense of self preservation and a desire not to roll a 2.4 ton jeep. But, I then flipped the switch over to Comfort Mode, and the car changed entirely.

It became a car that would make it easy to keep the promise, before 3000 the engine is dead, dead and buried. Those turbos don’t have enough pressure to work properly and boost an engine normally relegated to under 300HP to over 360: so it’s a dog, it pulls as much as an under powered hatch. In Comfort and Eco mode the gearbox will be dammed if it lets you cross 3500, it will change up a gear and stay there, you can push the throttle almost 3/4 of the way down and it won’t kick down. I guess it’s kind of annoying to some, but it also means that it rejects your desire to be fast.

In comfort mode you don’t want to challenge the other drivers because it takes too much effort. Now... if you want power it will give it to you if you depress the pedal a bit more past 3/4, then the engine kicks down one or two gears and you’re off as if it was in sport mode, it’s so violent that you end up not wanting to do it because it would upset your passengers. I guess most people would complain of such gearbox tuning, but I find it perfect, because that power denial is just enough to keep your inner bro in check. Not that it matters if you drove like an absolute idiot though...

Kia doesn’t actually include a guide of how to remove the lugnut covers.

Those Continental Sport Contact tires will keep you glued at most speeds if you corner too fast, if you need to stop the brembos will clamp you down. That stability control that remains turned on in sport plus mode also means that your sick drifts will not turn into dangerous drifts, it’s a bit like the race mode in the 458 italia, it lets you pull out the rear enough to have fun, but not too much. If the worst happens, it’s rated as a 5 star car by the EuroNCAP testers. It lets you choose how much of an asshole you want to be that day with the flick of a switch, it’s a lot of responsibility, and one must be careful.

The true luxury of life is having a wealth of options, something the Kia gives you in spades: I could beat that 340i on the on-ramp, or that s4, or that c43, it doesn’t matter because they can’t touch me. You end up looking at other cars and realizing that, the tuned up Audi S3 with four bro exhausts and reggaeton bursting from the speakers can’t win if you chose to race it. It’s like being the guy that never got rejected by the beautiful people in high school; you feel a power that seems almost uneasy to wield. You go around parking lots thinking which cars are slower than yours, and you realize its all of them most times.

So speed no longer comes to mind, because you know you can have as much as you want. You instead focus on the cabin and you realize why this is a 38,000 dollar Stinger and not a 50,000 dollar 440i. The cabin isn’t very luxurious, sure, there’s a suede headliner and the design is quite good, but the dash feels like hardened Playdoh and the nasty faux carbon fiber trim makes you feel uncomfortable at how gaudy the cabin feels, they spent all this time making it look good that they didn’t focus on making it feel good. There are exceptions to this though: the leather on the seats and most of the control surfaces feel adequately matched if not better than those offered by the German, Japanese, and American luxo car makers, but it’s in the details that you start realizing that it’s not quite there yet.

For instance you can’t have the sunroof in the vent position because of reasons that are beyond me, the carpet that lines the boot and centre console isn’t cut perfectly so some places sort of don’t fit, Android Auto gets detected half of the time because the car’s computer gets confused, and the cameras don’t get disabled automatically when you start setting off, so you need to disable them yourself. The driver airbag cover is made out of cheap plastic that would look unfit in a Rio, never mind the range topper car, and whenever you rest your leg against the centre console it wiggles a bit because it’s not held together that well. The rear headroom sucks and all of the plastics that aren’t touched often feel cheaper than a Chinese ripoff of a lego block.

Nasty fake vents are nasty.

I’ll dare to say that this is a bit like a spiritual successor of the Chevrolet SS; its a very comfortable and understated sedan liftback that is faster than almost everything and isn’t a fortune to buy new, a machine that would easily eat up a few thousand miles of highway and then murder a few Miatas in a trackday, what with it’s fancy suspension.

I’ve never driven an SS, so I can’t comment on GM’s (according to reviewers excellent) magnetic suspension, but the Kia has electronically controlled dampers and, meh... you can’t tell that much by the dampers alone if you’re in sport mode or Comfort.

It’s all about the gearbox really, and how it sees fit to muffle the engine. It might be that I’m a tech obsessed millennial and the car responds just as well in sport mode than in Comfort mode and the switch is a gimmick but I feel like the key aspect of the Kia is that it lets you chose what kind of person you’ll be: the asshole, or the nice guy.

It really spoils you, as many fast cars do, because now whenever I drive another car I don’t feel like I was given the choice. I get back on my jeep and I feel sluggish and tall, unstable and unable, if you will. I feel like I felt in highschool because I wasn’t the dreamy guy:

I was normal.

404 - User No Longer Available > Spanfeller is a twat 02/11/2018 at 22:18

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If they do a manual version of the RWD 2.0T, I’d trade for it.

...but I know that ain’t happening.

DipodomysDeserti > Spanfeller is a twat 02/11/2018 at 22:25

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What transmission is in it? The ZF8?

Spanfeller is a twat > 404 - User No Longer Available 02/11/2018 at 22:26

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I actually thought very seriously about getting the Chevy SS with the manual box, but it would’ve been a mess to import and register. But then, traffic here is so bad that I wouldn’t be able to manage a manual without wanting to kill everyone around me in traffic.

Spanfeller is a twat > DipodomysDeserti 02/11/2018 at 22:28

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I think its a Hyundai/Kia gearbox, not the ZF that all the Germans have. But I could be wrong.

It is excellent though, much better than other 8 speed inhouse boxes, like the Chrysler one.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > 404 - User No Longer Available 02/11/2018 at 22:34

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People are still talking hopefully for a G70 manual in the states. I’m skeptical but with its slightly smaller wheelbase and size it may be a better fit overall.

BahamaTodd > DipodomysDeserti 02/11/2018 at 22:50

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Its an in-house designed Hyundai transmission.

BahamaTodd > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 02/11/2018 at 22:52

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CARB just posted the emissions certification for the G70. Manual (M6) 2.0 is confirmed.

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2019/hyundai_pc_a2540372_2d0_u3-125.pdf

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Spanfeller is a twat 02/11/2018 at 23:06

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Chrysler uses the ZF

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > BahamaTodd 02/11/2018 at 23:08

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Holy crap. That’s cool!

Spanfeller is a twat > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/11/2018 at 23:21

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I think you’re right... the inhouse box is the 9 speed*

Spanfeller is a twat > BahamaTodd 02/11/2018 at 23:34

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That deserves a post...

404 - User No Longer Available > BahamaTodd 02/11/2018 at 23:53

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Until the car actually is here, I refuse to believe it. Besides up here in Canada we’re seeing less and less RWD models, where usually the manual ones are restricted to.

... and the G70 is not a liftback.

404 - User No Longer Available > Spanfeller is a twat 02/11/2018 at 23:54

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Well the SS was never on my list because I don’t really want a V8, I do mostly city driving.

Yes, I’m weird, city driving with a manual.

Spanfeller is a twat > 404 - User No Longer Available 02/12/2018 at 00:01

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Oh I fucking adore the SS.... I do city driving too, and man... having a very powerful car in the city is intoxicating because when you see a hole... it becomes your spot... no one takes it.

But I can see why you’d want a reasonable engine and even a manual... more oldschool and has a bit more user involvement... I personally see the manual-apocalypse as a very sad development but I can totally understand it.


The LS is a magnificent motor... I remember being late to a date while driving my mom’s suburban and that motherfucker pulls like a freightrain...

Discerning > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 00:04

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From what I understamd, the stinger’s acceleration is in line with a 340i, s4,Red Sport, C43, etc. Only, a lot of those cars are running around with a tune or more. I wouldn’t sleep on any of the cars you mentioned because they’re likely quicker than you think.

Spanfeller is a twat > Discerning 02/12/2018 at 00:21

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Its about the confidence that there’s a fighting chance now.. you can surprise many a BMW or Audi drivers and simply having that is privileged. But I understand what you mean and it’s totally possible that they smoke my ass. Not that I race in the streets, god no...But I can certainly shake off a road raged Audi A4 or S4.

Man, I wish the redsport was good, I really dig infiniti’s design but they still lack something...

Well, the Kia still makes more or about the same amount of power than most of those stock... If I tuned it I could beat many of those... even a tuned 340i because that one is significantly underpowered compared to the C43 and the S4...

torquewise, it probably has the single turbo Audi and BMW done for... but that twin turbo Merc... oh... that’s probably as good or better.

A quick search reveals that an ECU re flash gives you 420hp on the Stinger... surely you can pull similar stunts on the S4 or the C43, but I don’t think it’s doable on the 340i...

The only one that could beat the Kia stock is probably the C43 and that’s because its a helluva car!

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 00:26

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Not ALL the Germans. Benz uses their own.

Discerning > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 00:30

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The red sport seemed fine to me. Better power delivery than the 340i and similar interior quality. Not as communicative in terms of handling, but that might have just come down to tires. The things people are doing with the infinitis with just a tune is pretty decent though. Roughly 500hp with a good tune. I should be at about 500 at the crank on e30. AMS has gone 10's in the 1/4 with bolt ons.

The 340i is capable of over 450hp with just a piggyback tune on 93 octane. The B58 is a very stout motor. http://www.burgertuning.com/B58_JB4_bmw_performance_tuner.html

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 00:31

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No way!

I know that their dual clutch gearboxes are still inhouse, but never knew about the auto being Mercedes’ own...

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 00:31

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C43 seems to be about .5 second quicker to 60mph. Most tunes give it 50-60hp and 70lb.ft or so. It’s also AWD.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 00:35

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Actually the SLS and GT use the same getrag unit as a lot of other supercars. Otherwise they’ve all been in house, with the exception of the W164 ML hybrid, which used some GM thing (I have no idea about anything having to do with those).

Spanfeller is a twat > Discerning 02/12/2018 at 00:41

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That Nissan motor is astonishing, without a doubt one if the greats.

About the B58... I don’t know man... I’m not gonna mod my car and I can’t get 93 octane here anyway. Its not a competition and im certain that once tuners are familiarized with the Kia’s engine it will be able to pull out 450+ without problem... The real issue is the transmission

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 00:42

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I really like the c43... Might like it more than the 63.

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 00:43

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I guess I learnt a lot today!

And I think its better that you stay away from such a boring car like the ML hybrid.

Discerning > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 00:47

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 True, It’s not a competition. Just pointing out what’s been done in the aftermarket for these cars. For a lot of owners interested in performance, aftermarket availability is a major consideration. I’ve never kept a car stock for more than a couple weeks and was on the phone with BMS the day after I got my Q50 SS.

Should be interesting to see what the aftermarket of the stinger will look like. The Mercedes, BMW, and Nissan have had big name tuners behind some of these tunes and builds. I’m curious to see if any of the bigger shops do anything with the stinger.

Discerning > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 00:52

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 Mercedes has invested a significant amount of r&d in their in-house transmissions since the 1960's. Very few of their cars used transmissions not built by Mercedes.

Spanfeller is a twat > Discerning 02/12/2018 at 01:25

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Oh, certainly it is something to be considered. What I wanted from the Stinger was the badge... that Korean badge that no one cares about here. It’s a Q car and no one really knows what it can do. Plus, driving around in a BMW or an Audi isn’t exactly safe because muggers go by brand; they’d rather mug someone in an audi A1 than in a Focus RS; despite the focus being twice as expensive.

I get it if you want to mod your car, its something that a lot of people do as you say, and getting 500 HP out of your car must be amazing! but the Kia suffices for me... If I ever got a tune it’d be to increase fuel economy really.

It will be seen what tunners do of Kia’s engine... the previous Lambda II engines had quite a following because of the Genesis coupe. The Kia’s engine is interesting, its an undersquare v6 with two turbos, I think it runs quite a lot of boost as is (12psi!) and the compression ratio isn’t stellar at 10:1. But it’s bigger gripes are easily changeable, and it won Ward’s best engines award (which your q50 won too) So I guess it’ll take a lot of shove to kill it.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 01:46

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No contest if the 63 were AWD though

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 01:49

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The new ones are great! Definitely not something I would call boring. The 164 hybrid was mostly an R&D exercise.

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 02:00

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I suppose so... I really like the tech behind that v8 though... I love the concept of a hot-vee and I wish the Kia had something like that... just for laughs.... and for response...

The turbo lag on that Kia is horrible... it’s like 90's bad...

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 02:02

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Don’t the GLE and GLS run on a Daimler Chrysler unibody shared with the WK2 grand cherokee and Durango?

I think that was the rumor... could be wrong though...

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 02:05

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For sure. Love that engine. But that’s kind of what I’m saying, I’d only consider the 43 on price and the fact it’s AWD. No lag on our stuff! 

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 02:10

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Well, not anymore... no...

But then again, the 1.1 million peso c43 and 1.7 million peso c63 are way more expensive than my Kia, I can’t afford them and that three pointed star draws a lot of unwanted attention in my neck of the woods.
If I had the money and lived on the right place, I’d probably get an C63 S or E63S wagon, way more understated than the BMW M3 and M5 and also a very nice interiors! Mercedes is making great cars of late! I don’t like all of them... but I can’t deny they make great cars.

I think their new straight six is the most thermally efficient mass production engine, so suck it Prius*!

*:Prius engine had previous record.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 02:13

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They’re are a lot of similarities at least. I don’t know first hand though. But the lack of boringness comes from the power train and how it’s set up.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 02:21

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Oh sure I wasn’t trying to argue them against your car which is obviously a performance bargain.

E-class AMG is where it’s at. Always has been. But dat $$$ tho

Can’t wait to drive the new engines!

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 02:21

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Funny what companies are up to these days. I think Mercedes also did a project with BMW for a hybrid on a V8 many years ago, but I doubt it succeeded much because... its a hybrid system on a V8, its like getting kale chips on a cheeseburger, who are you fooling?

In reality what I don’t care for in the Mercedes lineup is the GLS and the GLE, I think those are predominantly dumb, I really like the GLC though...

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 02:24

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Yeah, AMG really shines in the E class and S class... the others to me are a bit forgettable, maybe the A45 because it has a very special engine (that turbo is huge!)

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 02:31

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Our V8's are pretty efficient though. And thinking you can’t have a performance oriented hybrid is a pretty antiquated line of thinking. For example: P1, the Ferrari the Ferrari, 918.

GLS is super nice, especially if you need the space. But then again, I’d rather they build a new R-class. If I wanted a GLS it would be for space and off road worthiness, with an off road package (which no one buys, but makes it pretty damn useful)

GLE. Meh. It’s fine I guess. If you’re into that sort of thing.

GLC. Nice. Useful. Disappointed there’s no diesel option here. Thought the GLK looked a lot better. Actually, on second thought, I’ll just take a GLK250 bluetec (ideally with the off road package that was never offered here).

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 02:34

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The GT is amazing also. And the new S63 with the M177 4.0 V8... Hnng 

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 02:38

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Oh, I think I did not word it correctly, a performance oriented hybrid is awesome! I just feel that mating an electric setup to a v8 for the sake of economy is bullshit, it reminds me of the Tahoe hybrid.

Yes, mercedes needs a new R class, I couldn’t agree more. But I guess that the big GLS is more profitable (as SUVs are all the rage and they tend to have thicker profit margins)

The GLK was unusually cheap here, and to me the 350 was a performance bargain, it would be on par with something like a Tiguan in price in the case of the smaller 4 cylinder versions.

I wouldn’t buy a Mercedes for offroad use unless it had Unimog or G-wagon on its name, for something the size of the GLS i’d probably look for the range rover

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 02:40

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Yeah, but on the S i’d rather get the updated v12... go hard or go home!

The GT is quite a looker... It almost beats the f type on the outside.. but it’s got a way nicer interior for sure!

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 02:52

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But why not add a little power and economy at the same time? Use the hybrid system to do away with turbo lag. Anymore they’re not solely for economy. Economy is like the fifth least important thing to me when looking at cars, but better economy with a big V8? Definitely not a bad thing, especially when it doesn’t hurt performance! The old Tahoe hybrid was shit though, I know what you mean.

GLK350's aren’t worth it to me. Nowhere near a performance vehicle and economy isn’t very good. But the 250? Tons of torque, fantastic economy.

Oh I wouldn’t use them for real off roading. Just sometimes forest trails can try pretty beat up through winters here. The extra ground clearance and metal skid plates would be useful.

Spanfeller is a twat > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/12/2018 at 02:59

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It was a big engine on a relatively small SUV, perhaps I didn’t read the specs thoroughly enough to see its true colours!

In terms of hybrids... I think that it certainly could be good, but I understand why it was a fluke, the active hybrid 7 was slower than the 740i it was based on and it was as expensive as the 750i, all this while the gains were marginal, but that’s on the system being too small and not on the concept!

Forest trails, huh... seems like a task for the e class all terrain!

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 03:22

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Little worried about big rocks and the oil pan trying to be friends. But the monster is getting ADV tires!

404 - User No Longer Available > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 07:36

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Well this is coming from a guy who thinks 240hp 2.0 Turbo is too much and had second thoughts about getting the 180hp version, lol.

BigBlock440 > Spanfeller is a twat 02/12/2018 at 07:53

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Both the 8 and 9 speeds are ZF.

Spanfeller is a twat > BigBlock440 02/12/2018 at 07:57

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Huh... I thought jeeps had Chrysler TorqueFlite gearboxes...

Some research shows that its just a name and it is the german unit.