A lil' Christmas eve test drive. Drove a JL Wrangler for the the first time today

"KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time" (kngt) 12/24/2018 at 15:19 • Filed to: jeep wrangler, Oppo review, Test-Drive, test drives, Opporeviews, joop, jeep, Its A Jeep Thing, jeep wrangler jl, wrangler jl, 2018 wrangler, 2018 Jeep Wrangler, 2018 wrangler jl, jeeps

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I stopped by my local Jeep dealer today to try out the new JL. Been wanting to test drive one ever since the initial reviews came out. For the record, I have only ridden shotgun in a older sport and a 2017 JK Rubicon 2 door.

At first the salesguy brought out the Unlimited soft top, this thing is quite big! I looked around inside and outside, lots of space but wasn’t comfortable taking this out as the first drive of a Wrangler ever, so asked for 2 door. He brought out the hardtop sport. Now this is more like it. It had the e-Torque mild hybrid with the 2.0T, 8 speed auto

Talk about bare-bones! $36K MSRP with crank windows, single zone HVAC, manual seats, manual mirrors, no headliner, no heated seats. Everything Wrangler is so freaking expensive! There was someone else test driving a new Rubicon Unlimited next to me. $56K sticker price. And they had a bro’d up Unlimited Sahara for $63K inside the showroom. Crazy!

Sixty Five Thousand Dollars for a stock unmodified Rubicon Unlimited like this!

But, I love how it looks though. Visibility is great! Size is perfect. So anyway, getting in it I found it actually sits quite tall, or maybe this is normal for this kind of vehicle, I just haven’t driven trucks or 4x4 SUVs. Needs a side step if kids and older folks need to get in. Seats were good but had ancient controls. I immediately noticed that interior material quality especially switchgear is vastly improved. And the general layout is logical and easy to use. Even the base gauges are very good looking. It had a comically small 3-inch base display though, surprised to see it in 2018, reminded me of the Ford base system.

On to the driving, Things I like - great visibility, you can see a lot due to large windows smallish pillars and no real blindspots, and sitting up high. Seats were comfortable. But after sometime it felt like I was sitting TOO high, I am just used to sedans and the occasional crossover with a normal ride height. The 2 door is very maneuverable, small turning radius and easy to park. Also, the ride was definitely improved but then again I am comparing to a Rubicon JK with super knobby tires. Engine has strong midrange and pulls strongly past 2000 RPM. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! 8 speed was mostly unobtrusive.

Things I did not like . WTF is with that Steering? SO vague and artificial. Easily one of the worst ones. Also, high center of gravity but I understand this is a wrangler. The Highway really brings out the faults in this vehicle- SO much wind noise, and at certain speeds there is this irritating buffeting like when you open just the rear windows in a car. Nearly gave me a headache. Tires were quiet though given this is the Sport model. It did not wander at freeway speeds.

So, in conclusion. I understand the appeal of Wranglers. It has an undeniable cool factor to it. It’s a fun weekend and/or second vehicle but no daily driver IMO. This is not for me, sorry Joop fans of Oppo, guess I’m not a Jeep guy. I really applaud those who out up with all the faults (Or quirks if you may call them) to go offload or drive with the roof and doors off or be unstoppable in winter. “It’s a jeep thing” after all.

The Dummy Gummy > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 15:25

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$36K MSRP with crank windows

lol what a fucking rip off. I was in the market a few years ago for one of these and took a hard pass because their prices are just too much for what they are. The Jeep brand is lucky America is full of suckers.

fhrblig > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 15:25

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You think that steering is bad? Now go drive a CJ.

I know they’ll sell as many of these as they can make, but I’d rather have a little bit  older Wrangler without all the new tech and options. I don't begrudge anyone that wants one of these new ones, it's just that I've always had a blast in the old basic ones.

Future Heap Owner > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 15:27

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I’ve had more fun in a Jeep than any other vehicle I’ve driven, but IMO they only make sense to own if you’re serious about off-roading and get out there regularly. Otherwise you just have a really expensive car that’s not very pleasant to drive on pavement.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 15:35

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Our neighbors have a Rubicon 4 door. It sits in the garage about 355 days a year. They are only there for a few holidays. I can’t believe they bought a $50k rig to only drive about 12 days a year. I guess it is a $1m house so not too much for them.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > The Dummy Gummy 12/24/2018 at 15:36

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It makes no sense or logic. That kind of features for that price would fail in ANY other vehicle segment. But I guess a Jeep purchase is highly emot ional.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 12/24/2018 at 15:38

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That’s because they can say “yeah, I have a Wrangler Rubicon” all 365 days a year. Rationality and conventional logic doesn’t seem to work with Jeeps or some Porsches I would say.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Future Heap Owner 12/24/2018 at 15:40

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Pretty much sums up how I feel about them now.

DipodomysDeserti > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 15:51

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My local dealers have similarly spec’d models listed at around $30k. Which, while expensive, isn’t too crazy for 4wd SUV with basically no competitor.

But yeah, you don’t buy these if you’re looking for comfortable commuter.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > DipodomysDeserti 12/24/2018 at 15:54

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Speaking of competitors, I need to test drive the 4Runner sometime which would compare to the 4 door V6. I like the rugged exterior and the simple interior. Don’t know if it would drive any better.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 16:08

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Why do you think I only do SJ/XJ/WK/WK2?

The Wrangler and it’s relatives are just not good cars. Even before the eye-watering “It’s a Jeep Thing” bullshit premium. And they’re actively creating a WORSE car to satisfy a bullshit mythology of “rugged bare-bones offroader.”

Did you know the Wrangler is literally the only new vehicle you can buy with manual windows? I am 100% dead serious. They deliberately took away something you get even in the absolute stripper Mitsubishi Mirage, and turned it into a thousand dollar markup. Then to add insult to injury, while the materials might be quality, they took a slash-and-burn approach to all NVH. The Wrangler literally has zero NVH engineering, because a noise level that will give you a migraine on the highway? That’s a selling point - look at how TOUGH you are! You can make yourself suffer while overpaying for junk!

“Oh, but it’s the best serious offroader you can buy!” No. It’s not. It is one of the best, without question. It is more competent than almost everything else out of the box, certainly. But the best serious offroader you can buy? Yeah. No. To make it a serious rock-crawler, prepare to drop tens of thousands on modifications. Well hey, guess what? When you drop that kind of money, suddenly you’ve got a whole SHITLOAD of vehicles that are equally or MORE capable.

Like the WK/WK2.

Which gives you an actual luxury interior with high quality materials, leather, heated seats, good soundproofing, actual NVH consideration, and - gasp! - power windows! But power windows have no place in a “serious bare-bones offroader.”

You know, like the Suzuki Jimny. Which has power windows. And a 7.0 inch Infotainment system.

At £13,000 in the UK.

Where the Wrangler with manual windows and 3.0 inch non-touch radio that barely counts as an audio system these days starts at £44,495.  

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 16:25

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An FCA-designed hybrid 2.0T in a Wrangler... So much for honest longevity. I don't think that'll have great resale value, even with the Joop boost.

Crank windows, no problem. I have them in a 2014 Taco — but $36,000? Hmmm...

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 12/24/2018 at 16:27

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You know the old saying: if you can afford it, go ahead any buy a bunch of excessivd crap ™

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 12/24/2018 at 16:29

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The V6 manuals will obviously have the highest resale. I wanted to try this specifically because that 3.6V6 is in pretty much every other FCA product and they tout the e-Torque and all that but didn’t feel any electric -torque, to be honest and it’s a mild hybrid anyway. I cannot excuse crank windows and manual mirror adjustments in 2018, manual seats are fine.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 17:28

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They could easily rent a Chevy Tahoe at the airport for a fraction of the cost and it would accommodate their family much better. I’m going to ask them if I can take care of the Jeep by driving it at least three times a week.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 12/24/2018 at 17:29

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Trickle down in effect.

Tim > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 17:47

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Precisely why I refuse to even look at a JL. The outgoing JK had a base MSRP in the $23k range. The JL comes out with identical trim levels, and the base price is $29k. What do you get for that extra $6,000? Not a goddamn thing. “A backup camera,” the salesman told me. FCA can kiss my ass.

jminer > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 18:18

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Yep, they’re a pretty lousy experience to drive. I have been looking to replace my car with a mid-sized adventure mobile and had been looking at all the usual suspects. Finally convinced myself to drive a Wrangler and they’re awful.

The Frontier, Tacoma and 4Runner ride and drive much better for the same price. My favorite was actually the base Frontier in extended cab with 4wd with crank windows and manual locks.  The dealer by me had it for about $24k and it was actually quite tempting.

sn4cktimes > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 18:21

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The trick to road noise... start with sunny days, remove top and doors. Apply earplugs. Enjoy not being stuck inside a box. Also applicable: see motorcycle.

Humour aside; generally owning a Wrangler does not lead to plush   comforts. Fun sure. Luxurious qualities... not so much. 

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > jminer 12/24/2018 at 18:22

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Yup. The name and history of offroad prowess and cool factor is what makes them eye wateringly expensive .

P ractically speaking Y ou’d be better off with a truck in terms of features and pricing, if not for outright hardcore offroad capability. I am very interested in the new Ford Ranger I hope to test drive it next year in Spring.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > sn4cktimes 12/24/2018 at 18:26

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As I s tarted reading your comment I was thinking “ That’s basically a motorcycle” LoL. I mean you’re right it’s a great weekend/ offroad/ snow   toy but I demand some things from a new vehicle in 2018, and not for thos e exhorbitant prices. FCA is printing money on these things though.

Milky > Tim 12/24/2018 at 19:42

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just saying.

Wittermark11 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 20:04

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I own a wrangler Sahara JL with hard top with headliners,  it’s very quiet thanks.

Just Jeepin' > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/24/2018 at 21:26

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A much safer motorcycle.

Just Jeepin' > Tim 12/24/2018 at 21:31

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Setting aside inflation, what you get, off the top of my head:

Better ride quality

Easier top removal

Dramatically easier windshield removal

Full cage with windshield dropped

Lighter doors, thus easier to lug around

Better front-end design (subjective but true nonetheless)

Better electronics (whether having more electronics in a Wrangler is good or bad I leave to the reader)

Better automatic (and different, maybe better manual) transmission

Qurtyslyn > fhrblig 12/24/2018 at 21:54

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The steering on my JL Rubi is 1000 times better than my TJ was. 

Spasoje > Tim 12/24/2018 at 22:52

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It g e ts w o r s e . Story time.

Through some circumstances, I ended up separately renting a 2016, 2017, and 2018 JKU Sahara. FCA windo w s t i c k e r s are ac c e s s i b l e o n l i n e t h r o ugh the VIN, so I n a t u rally geeked out and checked the MSRP/options o f each one when I had them.

Some months later, I was looking at buying a 2013 , and of course I looked up its window sticker as well. . . Check out the differences in ( C a n a d i a n) MSRPs:

‘13: $39,945

‘16: $45,525

‘17: $46,405

‘18: $48,080

A l l f o u r w e r e c o n f i g u r ed identically , e x c e p t t h e ‘ 1 8 h a d a p a i n t e d h a r d t o p . J e e p b a s i c a l l y b u m p e d t h e M S R P u p ~ $ 1 k every year from 2013 on, w i t h v i r t u a l l y zero i m p r ovements !

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Just Jeepin' 12/24/2018 at 23:40

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I think they did a market survey which told them that buyers are willing to pay more for a better car. That alienates the $23 k base model crowd, but I’m sure they’ve done the trade study to optimise the predicted profits.

fhrblig > Qurtyslyn 12/25/2018 at 00:15

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And the steering on a TJ is 1000 times better than a CJ. A long time ago I had to borrow my dad’s CJ7 while my car was being worked on, and my GOD. First, it had an enormous thin steering wheel. Second, it was positioned like a school bus’s steering wheel.  Third, it felt like it was about 174 turns lock-to-lock.

DipodomysDeserti > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/25/2018 at 02:19

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The 4 runner is over two feet longer than the two door Wrangler and has IFS, so I’d imagine it drives a lot nicer.

Wranglers still really are, despite their price, bare bones wheelers. I don’t think they’re really comparable to a 4Runner.

The 4runner is a much more practical vehicle. My wife would definitely prefer a 4runner over my Jeep, but the Jeep is so much more fun to drive. My other rides are a 45 year-old motorcycle amd a fifty-two year-old truck, so I’m not a very practical person.

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/25/2018 at 02:21

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The Highway really brings out the faults in this vehicle

You haven’t experienced dailying a YJ with the 2.5L

Gus > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/25/2018 at 04:48

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Ummm yes the damn Wrangler is bare bones at the base model, for a reason! It gives you the option to buy the next model, upgrade it yourself, etc. But you realize that IF it came with these features, the base price would be even MORE money. If you don’t have a generous amount of cash to spend, then don’t consider a Wrangler, period. Its also NOT a luxury vehicle.

CRider > The Dummy Gummy 12/25/2018 at 05:03

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Just wait until you see how much Porsche charges for the p rivi le ge of cranking your own win d ows! 

CRider > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 12/25/2018 at 05:11

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The Jimny is a tiny box that would probably not pass US crash tests in its current form and would *never* be sold here with the engine it comes with. Add the things it would need for the US, and factor in  the dreaded Chic ken Tax and the price of the Jimny shoots up quickly.

The Dummy Gummy > CRider 12/25/2018 at 08:20

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Also overpriced but at least you get some tech in the engine, light weight carbon  and high quality build materials in the cabin. Merry Christmas!

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Gus 12/25/2018 at 08:48

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You can defend it all you want but s orry , au tomatic windows and other basic stuff is not “ Luxury” features especially in 2018. You know FCA is making shitloads of profit on Wranglers. They are overpriced for what you get, Period.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > DipodomysDeserti 12/25/2018 at 08:53

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I am comparing 4 door to 4 door , and   only going by what I am seeing online where there are hundreds of threads on “ 4runner vs. wrangler unlimited” on either forums and elsewhere. I have only sat inside one briefly so I am dedintely thinking of heading over to the local Toyota dealership this week. Neither are my type of vehicle though just want to improve my knowledge/ experience. I’d take a truck before I drive either one of these as a daily.

DipodomysDeserti > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/25/2018 at 10:14

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Yeah, the four door is a much more apt comparison. As a Jeep owner, I gotta think the 4Runner is a better overall vehicle. The Jeep has the intangibles (removabke roof/doors , manual transmission) that make it more “fun”.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/25/2018 at 10:19

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dealers don't even want the  manuals

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > CRider 12/25/2018 at 11:34

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Uh, afraid you are completely and totally wrong about one of those things.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/suzuki/jimny/33370

The Jimny scored a 73% occupant, 84% child occupant on EuroNCAP. US doesn’t evaluate VRU/Pedestrian or Safety Assist. Take away the technology bullshit and the Jimny isn’t the best by any measure, but it’s an easy pass with no occupant intrusion or structural failure even in the offset tests. And it actually does amazingly well in the side impact tests. Absolutely would pass US crash tests with zero modifications. Especially since automatic braking is standard on all models.

The engine on the other hand, yeah, that could be a show stopper, but less so these days. They’re selling sub-1.5L engines over here already with some success. The 101HP is the showstopper even with the extremely low curb weight. But Suzuki is using the K15B 1.5L in it (105PS) . Switch that for the K14C 1.4L Turbo (140PS) or the J20B (152PS) from the SX4, and it’s an easy seller. (Especially with good fuel economy.)

And even with the chicken tax, it doesn’t matter. Your price difference between the two is in an EU country, no chicken tax, no tariffs either side currently. It’s straight cost-to-cost, period.

The Wrangler is literally 3.5 times as expensive. The Chicken Tax is a 25% tariff which is fairly easy to avoid. But say Suzuki decides not to avoid it by shipping breakdown kits for assembly. That only increases the price of the Jimny from £13,000 to £16,250.

Which means even paying Chicken Tax, the Wrangler remains 274% more expensive than the Jimny at the minimum. That’s base for base . Option them out, and the Jimny with Chicken Tax maxes out at just £23,748.75 (up from £18,999 max trim and all options.) Translated to USD, that’s just $30,251.25 - or $15k cheaper than any similarly equipped Wrangler.

sn4cktimes > Just Jeepin' 12/25/2018 at 12:48

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Not sure about the JL’s. But the JK doors mention that they are not for crash protection. Just debris.

So mildly safer I suppose. 

Mike Gaebelein > unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) 12/25/2018 at 13:39

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With an automatic transmission 

Mike Gaebelein > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 12/25/2018 at 13:40

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No zj? 

Just Jeepin' > sn4cktimes 12/25/2018 at 14:07

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4 tires is the key. I was hit at 60mph by a large SUV while I had no doors and no top and I was fine.

sn4cktimes > Just Jeepin' 12/25/2018 at 17:58

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Glad you were okay. But scary none the less. But yeah, would not go as well minus the cage. 

Crownie Royal > The Dummy Gummy 12/26/2018 at 23:11

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That’s what I was thinking. Do you KNOW all I could have for $36k?!

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 01/27/2019 at 15:20

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the secret service should be called becuase these things just print money