Brake/taillight question

"Just Jeepin'" (macintux) 12/12/2018 at 13:30 • Filed to: None

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As you may know, I have a bit of a hobby/obsession: warning people when their brake lights are out. This morning I had a two-fer; I jumped out of the Jeep in a parking lot to alert a woman that both her reverse light and CHMSL were out.

Anyway, last night after a discussion with a different driver about her lights, I had a revelation, and I’m curious whether anyone knows whether I’m correct.

Every once in a great while I’ll notice, as I did last night, that one running light is brighter than the other; effectively, the brake light is on all the time when the lights are on.

It finally dawned on me, too late to bring the idea to the attention of the other driver, that this may be by design: that if the vehicle senses one running light is burnt out, it’ll redirect the power to the brake bulb.

Anyone know whether this is a thing?

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 13:37

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“ Ma’am, your Chmsl is out!”

“What?  Go away, perv.”

vicali > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 13:40

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Rear fog light ? It’s a euro thing..

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 13:41

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i dunno.... i know on my panda when one of the blinkers was out the other one got hyperactive and blinked twice as fast

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 12/12/2018 at 13:44

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that’ s normal.

Just Jeepin' > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 12/12/2018 at 13:44

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Yeah, they can clearly detect a faulty light: some vehicles from 10-20 years ago had warning indicators , and apparently on (some?) modern vehicles the ABS light will indicate a bad brake light by activating when the brakes are tapped.

Chuckles > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 13:45

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I don’t have an answer for you, but I was thinking about you and your hobby recently. I’ve come to the conclusion that I am no longer going to try to alert people when their lights are off or burned out. It’s not good for my sanity. The roads are full of morons and they cannot be helped. Last weekend I was on a highway behind a woman driving at night without her lights on. She had daytime running lights, but her taillights were dark and they were definitely DRL because they’d go out when she would use a turn signal. I tried, for several miles, to alert this woman that her lights were off. I pulled up alongside her and beeped. I definitely took it too far, but I eventually came to the conclusion that she didn’t think anything was wrong because she always drives this way. These people cannot be helped, and I don’t want to raise my blood pressure because of them. So I’m done trying to help people.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/12/2018 at 13:45

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thought so... just found it funny

(had a whole thing in my head where the blinker is all like aaaaaah my brothers dead *blinks frantically*

Just Jeepin' > Chuckles 12/12/2018 at 13:47

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I have to admit, it does cause me excessive aggravation on occasion, but a significant minority are sufficiently  effusive with their appreciation that it keeps me going.

Plus, what else am I going to do with my life?

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Chuckles 12/12/2018 at 13:51

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Ditto.  Too many dummies out there.  

Chuckles > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 13:52

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This incident pretty much ruined my whole night. I got angry about it and it lingered on my mind for hours. It's not worth it for me.

PartyPooper2012 > Chuckles 12/12/2018 at 13:57

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Took an uber once. Driver was driving with her highbeams on. Populated area. Cars in front of her and behind. I asked - do you have your highbeams on? She snapped back at me YEP.

I leaned back and played with my phone. I don’t want to get thrown out of a car or murdered accidentally on purpose.

I concur with your assessment to leave idiots be. Tho I do wish there was a way to signal to other drivers that their lights are off without seeming like a douche who is tailgating aggressively and flashing highbeams. 

PartyPooper2012 > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 13:59

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I would lean more towards the car was in a crash. Whoever put the lights back in, switched them up and never cared to check.

I can’t imagine safety regulators approving light positions changing - what used to be a brake light is now a running light etc. 

TysMagic > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 14:00

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The tails on my audi were all red with no white reverse light. I only had one person tell - and by that I mean yell obsessively - me that they had no idea I was backing out. I expected it to happen more often. 

Just Jeepin' > PartyPooper2012 12/12/2018 at 14:03

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The brake lights worked as expected with the running lights off, however, and the light didn’t dim (toggle to a running light) when she hit the brakes.

Just Jeepin' > TysMagic 12/12/2018 at 14:04

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I’ve had a couple of close calls when people didn’t have reverse lights, but they didn’t know theirs were out. It makes a difference when you think people know what you’re doing, vs when you know that they can’t know.

Chuckles > PartyPooper2012 12/12/2018 at 14:07

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If someone is flashing their lights at me, my first instinct is to ask “are my high beams on? Are my lights off when they should be on?” It’s only after that happens and they keep flashing that I think that they are being an asshole.

This woman was so frustrating because she seemed dumbfounded that I was trying to get her attention. I mean I pulled up alongside her, put my window down, and shouted “YOUR HEADLIGHTS ARE OFF!!!” No response. She just looked at me, confused. It was pitch black out. 

Svend > TysMagic 12/12/2018 at 14:10

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There wasn’t a reverse light on your car? Was the bulb gone?

Svend > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 14:13

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That’s what is really odd about some U.S. cars. Their side lights are also brake lights, like ours, but U.S. ones also function as indicators while it’s illegal to have that operation in the U.K. and you must separate the functions.

the U.S. even took a Euro Ford Transit and deliberately moved the rear indicators into t he side/brake light function.

Just Jeepin' > Svend 12/12/2018 at 14:16

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Yeah, the conflation of three different roles into a single indicator is a recipe for disaster, and definitely makes my hobby more challenging.

Svend > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 14:19

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In the U.K. you can import virtually any vehicle but there are at least two legal requirements for registration, one, separating the side/brake light and indicator function (a North American car issue) , two, adding a rear fog light (a grey import JDM issue). Pretty much anything else goes. 

PartyPooper2012 > Chuckles 12/12/2018 at 14:37

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One day I was on a highway really late/early at night. It was foggy and there were very few cars on the road. One car was keeping up with me but headlights were off. I tried flashing. I tried hand gestures. Nothing. Eventually it ticked me off, I rolled my window down and yelled that the headlights were off.

Person responded that it wasn’t their car and they didnt know how to turn lights on. I looked at the car. It was a toyota of some sort. I said twist the turn signal. Lights went on and everyone was happy again.

Light switch can only be in very few limited places.

Turn signal. Dashboard left of the steering wheel or right of it.

Door.

Not hard to find but I guess you rather drive with lights off than to take a second and locate that all important switch. 

BigBlock440 > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 14:50

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Probably rear fog lights.  Take notice next time if it’s a European car.

Just Jeepin' > BigBlock440 12/12/2018 at 14:54

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Nope, American minivan.

Just Jeepin' > vicali 12/12/2018 at 14:54

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American minivan.

Chuckles > PartyPooper2012 12/12/2018 at 14:54

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If I’m driving a car for the first time, I figure out all of that before I ever start to move. People are not smart.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Svend 12/12/2018 at 15:05

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This is often done and is a lazy solution to a comply with an indicator surface area rule that the rest of the world does not have.

I hate brake lights that double as turn indicators.

PartyPooper2012 > Chuckles 12/12/2018 at 15:10

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judging by the time and quality of a car, i would guess there was a scuffle and someone was in a hurry to get out of dodge. Or someone needed to get some place in a hurry and borrowed a car. I can see all that being the case, but I agree with you. It doesn’t take that long to figure shit out. How do you shift gears, where is the light switch. Where is a door handle and what side is gas tank on

BigBlock440 > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 15:23

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No idea then, probably something with the witchcraft called electricity rather than by design.  Possibly the car uses multiple bulbs/filaments for the taillights, and when one burned out it doubled the power to the remaining and made it brighter.  Or a bad ground, that’s a good go-to.

Svend > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 12/12/2018 at 15:25

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The American Ford Transit has just the reverse lights in the clear lens (which is a very large area) .

Elsewhere the clear lens area is split between the reverse light and the rear indicators.

So they’ve got out specifically to merge the lights in the U.S. market.

Which is odd because the Ford Transit Connect has been left alone.

facw > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 12/12/2018 at 15:38

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It was originally just an artifact of how the lights were wired, lower load on the circuit caused it to cycle faster (this is also why you can’t just swap in LED turn signal bulbs). I think this is no longer the case in many modern cars, but it’s hard to tell, because cars that don’t feature this behavior generally try to emulate it, since some drivers expect it (this intuitive behavior is considerably worse than popping up a human readable warning when starting the car, but I guess that’s harder).  

vicali > Just Jeepin' 12/12/2018 at 15:39

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B roken then.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Svend 12/12/2018 at 15:40

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Definitely some strange design choices there.

Just Jeepin' > vicali 12/12/2018 at 15:40

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Well, I knew something was broken. I’m just curious whether the observed behavior is a feature or a bug.

facw > Chuckles 12/12/2018 at 15:49

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I’ll tell people about their headlights (which usually they are grateful for, no one wants to get pulled over because they missed flipping a switch ) or flash mine at them in warning (this never works, though I did get the enjoyment of flashing high beams at a car stopped going the other way at an intersection, being ignored, and then when the light turned green, seeing the car behind them light up and pull them over as soon as they went through).

Break lights, turn signals, and tail lights I don’t bother with though, people react weirdly. I get the impression that many people know, but don’t want to spend the time, money, or hassle to replace them (it’s not much, but it can still be a burden for people). Even for people who don’t know, I think they may interpret being informed as judging them for operating a substandard car, instead of a friendly heads up about a problem that they might not easily notice on their own.  

Chuckles > facw 12/12/2018 at 15:53

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With this person, I started by just flashing my high beams, but things kind of escalated after that. They were oblivious, and I let it get the better of me.

The only way I can avoid getting worked up about it is to just distance myself from the problem and never get involved. I don't generally have road rage issues and I'm able to stay cool, calm, and collected. But this one got out of hand and I regretted it afterwards. 

TysMagic > Svend 12/12/2018 at 17:42

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It was red not white, v confusing 

Svend > TysMagic 12/12/2018 at 17:57

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A red reversing light? Wow, that’s odd, and different. Completely illogical. 

TysMagic > Svend 12/13/2018 at 11:31

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I very much agree, if you look closely you can see a square of red on each side that is white on the US spec taillight

Euro spec I swapped a guy in the UK for:

US Spec I sent to him:

PS I miss this car dearly. I recently found out the next owner flipped it on the highway in January of this year.