Banning Christmas (political content?)

"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo) 12/10/2018 at 10:08 • Filed to: None

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I heard about this one on the news this morning, and honestly it made me laugh.

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As some one who never celebrated Christmas for religious reasons, this kind of made me happy. let me explain

It seems so backwards to me that Christmas could ever have a place in the school system. Not only are we wasting classroom time on it, but it also doesn’t take into consideration the kids who either, aren’t Christian, or like me are Christian but don’t take part in the tradition of Christmas. If there is supposed to be a separation of Church and State , than why do we make exception when that church is Catholic?

Now BANNING may be a step to far, just like I wouldn’t want a kid lose the right to wear any other symbol of their religion. Whether its a Catholic kid with a cross, or a Jehovah’s Witness wearing a pin that says JW.org. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your religion and wanting to show that outwardly,as long as you don’t hurt someone else in the process, but using our education system to indoctrinate religious tradition into small children is kinda messed up. Not to mention the exclusion that happens when a child(like myself and now my son) has to tell their teacher they need to leave the room, or the school, because they do not want to be a part of those religious practices.

Also this line is just pure bologna

“ a policy guide to teachers, the district said “Christmas trees, Santa Claus, and Easter eggs and bunnies are considered to be secular, seasonal symbols and may be displayed as teaching aids provided they do not disrupt the instructional program for students.”  

These religious symbols are fine because they aren’t religious symbols .

facw > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:37

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I hope the principal lawyers up (though seems like she backed down instead). Teacher’s free speech rights do not allow them to override their responsibility as government employees not violate the separation of church and state while acting in their official capacity.

Jayhawk Jake > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:38

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Christmas is such an annoying holiday. It often feels like if you don’t celebrate it, you’re viewed as being an angry person or something absurd. Like just cause I’m a Jew and don’t care about your holiday doesn’t mean I’m a sad, bitter, angry person. I just don’t celebrate the same thing you celebrate. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > facw 12/10/2018 at 10:40

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but they do, they all do, when they have kids sing “one small child” and make little orientates for the classroom Christmas tree.

not to mention Easter, and Valentines day.

Ash78, voting early and often > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:40

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I grew up with a secular Christmas and never thought much of it. We might as well have celebrated Chanukah. We learned about both in public school.

Older, as a Christian now, I just sort of have a condescending or apathetic view towards Christmas — ironically, because it is so secular and commercialized, but also because it really shouldn’t be such a major holiday compared to, say, Easter. Where we get zero days off work/school.

I think Christmas is a symbiotic thing because schools and workplaces are coming to the end of their calendar year, so it’s just a matter of convenience for everyone involved . If it weren’t for where it falls on the calendar, it wouldn’t be as big a deal as it is.

COME AT ME BRO (I’ll turn the other cheek until I’m out of cheeks)

TheRealBicycleBuck > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:44

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Keep in mind that not all Christians are Catholic. There are Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Pentecostalists, Presby terianists , Evangalists, ....

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Ash78, voting early and often 12/10/2018 at 10:46

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I get the apathy, I think that is how the majority of people see Christmas. but when you get right down to it, it has religious connotations , whether its the modern “christian” ones or the pagan ones before that.

I also might have a bit of a condescending attitude towards the tradtion.

I had another paragraph here but got ride of it because it was VERY condescending to people who do believe that it is Jesus’ B-day.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:46

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The Venn diagram of people who start frothing at the mouth about things like this, and then also complain about how anyone non-Hispanic-but-still-Brown must be here to help spread “Sharia Law” is basically a circle.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/10/2018 at 10:48

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J ehovah’s witnesses.

I’m 99% sure it was the Catholic church that brought it Christmas into Christianity.

Ash78, voting early and often > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:49

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The best we can do is ballpark it. Only Luke’s Gospel really has much about it, and really all we know is “it was winter and the Romans wanted a census” — to my knowledge, the rest of it was just sticking it somewhere on the calendar where it conveniently overwrote a prior pagan holiday. So it’s all sort of contrived...

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s important to celebrate the virgin birth, since that’s one of the two most important tenets of Jesus’ divinity (along with resurrection). I just don’t like what it’s become.

OTOH, Easter is anchored to Passover and is much more important and reliable a holiday. IMHO.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Jayhawk Jake 12/10/2018 at 10:50

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This is my point exactly, and this attitude is ta ught in our public schools.

Spanfeller is a twat > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:53

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At my school we were told thanksgiving pilgrims were terrorists, and when Christmas came we had to celebrate hanukah as well.

I went to one of those “humanitarian” schools.

I think religion is incompatible with school, to the point that if it were up to me, I’d ban catholic or otherwise religious  k-12 schooling.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Ash78, voting early and often 12/10/2018 at 10:55

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The thing is the bible doesn’t say that we should celebrate Jesus’ birth.

Jesus himself told people not to celebrate him as a man on earth. if we were supposed to celebrate his birth why would it not be documented ? the date of the Passover is. Nissan 14 33 CE, we know that because its written.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Spanfeller is a twat 12/10/2018 at 10:56

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Wow your school was honest and at least tried to be considerate. WOW

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:57

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I just get so damn worn out by the whole season. Our office had a desk decorating contest and my pod mates went kinda overboard. As two of them were arguing about what colors to put on our cardboard Christmas tree one suggested blue and white, which was shot down as being “ Hanukkah colors” but not before loudly pointing at everyone in the pod and saying “he’s not Jewish, I don’t think he’s Jewish, I know Bman76 isn’t Jewish, you’re not Jewish, I’m not Jewish” which I felt... odd about. I ended up making some paper stars for the top of our tree, mostly to avoid another coworker making angels and so that I could say I was somewhat involved/they’d stop bothering me.

ttyymmnn > Ash78, voting early and often 12/10/2018 at 10:58

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because it is so secular and commercialized, but also because it really shouldn’t be such a major holiday compared to, say, Easter.

What many (most?) people don’t understand is that Easter is a higher holy day than Christmas. After all, it was Jesus’ death—and resurrection—that made all that Bible stuff possible, n ot just his birth. It’s why J. S. Bach uses the melody from “ O sacred head sore wounded ” in his Christmas oratorio. Even when writing about the birth of Jesus, Bach is foreshadowing his death, because that is more important.

My bird IS the word > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:58

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At no point did anyone teach me that you were strange for not celebrating christmas. I also live in the least diverse part of my city.

nermal > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:59

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Christmas is still a federal holiday, like Thanksgiving or Easter or MLK day. Unfortunately, the fun holidays such as Halloween or W alpurgisnacht aren’t.

Most kids are celebrating getting a week or more off of school, as well as candy and useless cheap plastic crap as presents. Santa, the Easter Bunny, Pilgrims & Tur keys - They’re all modern consumerist symbols, not religious ones.

BigBlock440 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 10:59

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If there is supposed to be a separation of Church and State , than why do we make exception when that chu rch is Catholic?

1st, there’s not, that’s just a convenient catchphrase. “ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” There’s a large gap between putting up a Christmas tree and establishing a nationwide forced religion .

These religious symbols are fine because they aren’t religious symbols.

That’s because they’re not religious symbols. A manger scene or a crucifix would be religious symbols, Santa and the Easter Bunny are secular creations to drive consumerism and allow the non-religious to celebrate the same days.  The more devout even find the concept of Santa and the Easter Bunny to be offensive.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 12/10/2018 at 10:59

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ah the Christmas Spirit. anger, stress, and bickering just like Jesus. 

Berang > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 11:06

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I’m with Scrooge on th is. Christmas is a humbug.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > BigBlock440 12/10/2018 at 11:08

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In my eyes if it’s tied to a religious holiday, no matter how butchered it is, it’s still religious . Santa is just as much part of Christmas as a baby in a m anger.

facw > BigBlock440 12/10/2018 at 11:15

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There’s a large gap between putting up a Christmas tree and establishing a nationwide forced religion. 

Not anywhere near as large as you seem to think.

Spanfeller is a twat > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 11:19

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I’ll say this much; I prefer it to the hyper-religious schools on any end  of the spectrum.

Future next gen S2000 owner > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 11:41

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Does that mean beads and topless women are also religious symbols? Mardi Gras celebrates the beginning of lent, so.......

This is in jest but I’m with B igB lock. I see the link as a link to consumerism rather than the religion.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 12/10/2018 at 11:43

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No colors needed.*

Future next gen S2000 owner > Spanfeller is a twat 12/10/2018 at 11:45

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Unfortunately, a few schools still teach creationism here. Sigh.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Future next gen S2000 owner 12/10/2018 at 11:45

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is that really the origin of Mardi G ras? wow. and I thought Christmas was a mockery.

Future next gen S2000 owner > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 11:47

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It’s one last big party before Ash Wednesday. That’s why it is Fat Tuesday. It’s evolved from a mix of  cultures, but basically, you get all of you sinning done and out of the way before you give something up for lent.

BigBlock440 > facw 12/10/2018 at 11:57

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Yep, the county clerk is totally going to send you fines because they didn’t see you in Church this Sunday.  Better see you there next week or you’ll get to spend a night in lockup to give you some time to think about it.

BigBlock440 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 12:02

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It’s still a religious symbol if it’s not found anywhere in church teachings and religious people find it offensive? Would it still be religious if you called it a “holiday ” tree, or the “Spring Bunny”?

bshappy > BigBlock440 12/10/2018 at 12:04

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While not written in the Constitution it is not a catch phrase. The court has numerous times discussed a wall or separation between church and state. 

Maxima Speed > ttyymmnn 12/10/2018 at 12:04

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Exactly

Svend > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 12:05

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I’m atheist but baptised from birth as Church of England, protestant. I don’t care about christmas and hate being called miserable, miser,etc... or say ‘bar-humbug’ to me because I don’t get into the ‘christmas spirit’ and have fun and laugh all the time, u rghhhh.

It’s especially annoying when it’s being said to me by people who couldn’t care less about religion but because they g e t to go to a few parties, get drunk with some semi valid reasons other than it just being Friday or Saturday, get given gifts, etc... suddenly they are devote christians.

F*** off.

My best christmas was a few years ago, I told my family I was going to celebrate christmas and new year with a friend in Scotland, but actually stayed home.

Early on christmas eve I drew the curtains and locked the front door, put my phone on silent and eat and drank on the couch for three days, did a couple of days of work and then did the same for new years. Other than texting and some replying to messages on my mobile on christmas day and new years eve , the world was  closed from me. It was so good. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Svend 12/10/2018 at 12:08

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that does sounds nice. My whole life i have really enjoyed not celebrating Christmas.

and it’s not like my family never got together. We just had a family weekend in a cabin on the north-shore of Superior. We went now to take avantage  of the lull between Thanksgiving and Chrismas, the stay is cheaper, and the roads are empty.

facw > BigBlock440 12/10/2018 at 12:14

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I didn’t say that. But it doesn’t need to reach that point to violate the 1st A mendment . There is tons of historical precedent for how that language is interpreted and that courts have been quite clear you can establish religion without needing to create a “Church of America”.

More to the point, these displays are absolutely not secular. By celebrating them, you are both being coercive and making people of other faiths (or no faith) feel like second class citizens. It’s appalling and has no place in public schools.

And while the county clerk may not tax you for skipping church, they absolutely are taxing you to pay for teachers, and those teachers really should not then be used for religious indoctrination.

Spanfeller is a twat > Future next gen S2000 owner 12/10/2018 at 12:36

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Oh no I was lucky, schools here are still plagued with incongruent curriculums and our public books still suck

Jay, the practical enthusiast > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 12/10/2018 at 18:52

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I’m late to the party, but I’m not religious and my wife is Buddhist (as is her family) . We celebrate Christmas with our kids because we don’t see the connection to christianity. Christmas is the same as Halloween, Thanksgiving, Valentine’s Day, etc. If you remove religion from Christmas, you still have the tree, decorations, Santa, and presents. Christmas is totally a non religious holiday except for people who try to make it religious. For us it has become  a cultural family tradition. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Jay, the practical enthusiast 12/10/2018 at 19:27

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I will agree that it has nothing to do with religion. But I still feel that my beliefs prevent me from participating in it, because of its original intent. Same goes for Halloween. Sure it’s just a time to dress up and eat candy, but that was not it’s or purpose.