I had a throught while cleaning a the drive way.

"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
12/07/2018 at 19:56 • Filed to: PLEASE DO NOT LET THIS TURN INTO ANOTHER DCT STYLE OF CAGE FIGHT

The tractor has a HST (Hydrostatic Transmission), it’s good in light applications. I had one conflicting thought.

Is a HST a manual or automatic? In certain aspects it’s both. The HST acts as a gearbox to transmit power from the prime mover to the load. Most HSTs use a variable-displacement pump, motor, or both so that speed, torque, or power can be regulated.

In my case it has high & low range, so kinda like a 2spd. You can’t change between ratios while moving, but you can at any set RPM. Like old tractors you set the gear while stopped. S o I think that is the manual part of my argument.

Where it’s automatic it does not have clutch pedal, I always say it needs a clutch pedal to be manual. The HST has infinite ratios, like a CVT. There is no reverse gear(no forward gear), the what pedal you push determines the flow of the fluid. If it where automatic it could change between low & high range while moving, or is it like the lighting rod case where it blurs the line.

DISCUSSION (12)

Censored > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
12/07/2018 at 20:07

2 speed manual cvt.

tromoly > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
12/07/2018 at 20:10

No gears in the HST, so it’s neither. The High/Low has no bearing on the question at hand, it’s the same as a dump truck or Semi Tractor having two-speed drive axles and has no relevance to the transmission type.

jasmits > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
12/07/2018 at 20:17

I put that in the ‘I dunno, b oth? N either?’ column with dual or single clutch automated manuals . Like a DSG is way closer to a manual transmission than an auto mechanically , but it’s being shifted by a computer and can even act like a regular automatic(to various degrees of convincingness) and doesn’t require the same level of skill or provide the same connection that a regular ol manual does.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > jasmits
12/07/2018 at 20:22

I would not even call a DCT manual, it can go fully automatic when you want too. So that eleminates it from the argument.

jasmits > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
12/07/2018 at 20:29

Right, they’re more functionally similar to automatics but much more mechanically similar to manuals. So if the driving experience is what makes the difference than your tractor is a tractor which has an entirely different function and gives an entirely different experience than a car so it has a tractor transmission, which is neither a (car) automatic or (car)manual.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
12/07/2018 at 21:06

hmmm, that is an interesting one... I think the thing that really defines it though is that the system does NOT change it’s ratio in response to OTHER input than that of the operator, th is makes it a “manual” transmis sion. Sure, there are infinite ratios, and they are determined by a completely fluid-dynamic process, with no gears other than the Hi/Low range, which is just a two-speed ratio axle, which is also manually operated... BUT, the (effect ive) drive ratio does not change unless the operator specifically commands it to. The system never alters it’s ratios in response to load, throttle position, current velocity, or any other state of the vehicle’s condition a side from those directly input by the operator. I stand by this argument. An electric car has NO transmission at all, only the throttle determines speed/acceleration/torque, so even though you might think it’s the same at first, it isn’t. The HST and throttle are NOT linked in any way. it *IS* possible to load- stall out an engine coupled to an HST unless the system has a device/circuit installed expressly to prevent that occurrence.

It’s a weird -ass manual.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
12/07/2018 at 21:27

*Some tractors have a “throttle bumper” that will tickle the throttle upward as the HST pedal nears full travel, in an attempt to avoid an engine stall situation by overload, but it *STILL* doesn’t do anything to change the RATIO unless the pedal is expressly moved by the operator.

pip bip - choose Corrour > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
12/07/2018 at 22:31

i’d argue that it is an auto.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
12/07/2018 at 23:00

HST is really not a transmission at all if you want to get all fundamental. It’s just a pump with a flow direction and volume switch. The actual gearbox (if it has one) is the high/low ratio box.

Therefore, if the tractor only has HST then it’s a direct drive transmission (much like a number of EVs) . If it has a ratio transfer case as well then one could argue it is a manual transmission...but I would say it’s a 2 spd direct drive because you generally can’t transfer ratios on the fly.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
12/07/2018 at 23:09

direct drive transmission

so its basica ll y a Koenigsegg Regera.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
12/08/2018 at 02:34

If your imagination is that positive... absolutely!

bhtooefr > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
12/09/2018 at 09:55

So this is actually a really interesting case.

So, first, I’ll link to this comment of mine: https://jalopnik.com/1829953303

The hydrostatic component of the transmission is a manually-shifted CVT, so at most this is a semi-automatic.

Declutching is effectively commanded by the driver shifting the hydrostatic transmission to the stop position... but does that count as automated declutching, or manual declutching? (Note that shifting and declutching are the same action!)

Although, you can come to a complete stop and the hydraulic transmission is working against the brakes, the engine not stalling, so that would give the effect of automat ic declutching, making it clearly a semi-automatic.