"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
12/07/2018 at 15:55 • Filed to: None | 0 | 68 |
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
And note... those dollar figures are the average of what survey respondents spent over the 12 previous months.
facw
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:08 | 2 |
Woo, #5! Back to not replacing my leaking radiator because it’s not leaking much and ignoring the fact that my blower motor is on the way out (was like that when I bought the car, but probably less critical in Texas than Massachusetts).
nj959
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:09 | 2 |
On the other hand, my dad has an ‘03 MB E500 and the only repair he’s had to do in the last 2.5 years is a rear air spring.
I think it’s possible for an old Euro luxury car to make sense, but you have to make all the stars align. You have to pick the right model (no v10 m5s or 4.2l audis), find a good example, get a PPI done, and either be able to do some work yourself or have access to a competent and honest indy.
Most people don’t do any of this, but that just leaves the diamonds in the rough for us to find.
farscythe - makin da cawfee!
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:09 | 7 |
a grand a year for a 10 year old bimmer or merc?
thats based on nothing breaking right?
Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:12 | 5 |
I love how GM/Mopar vehicles seem to cost their owners not much more than “reliable” brands.
Party-vi
> farscythe - makin da cawfee!
12/07/2018 at 16:14 | 8 |
Looking at the receipts for my E46 ownership, that has got to be based on nothing breaking
404 - User No Longer Available
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:18 | 2 |
Teehee... I’ve covered the bookends, a BMW and a Pontiac.
Chariotoflove
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:20 | 0 |
Interesting how Cadillac and Lincoln do pretty well compared to the Euros.
Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:21 | 4 |
Yeah, but look at the 10 year old Porsche. Really the problem with them is that they take more oil than a goddamn diesel truck.
I’m not joking. 997.2's get billed at 10 quarts. Doing the work yourself is still $120 every 3000 miles.
Urambo Tauro
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:24 | 2 |
Looking at the difference between the 3-year and 10-year marks, I would say that when it comes to managing expectations, Porsches do the best job by providing the most gradual ramp up in cost over time. I wish there was a more detailed graph , but from here the curve on BMWs is looking pretty steep.
BigBlock440
> Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/07/2018 at 16:28 | 2 |
Pontiac FTW apparently.
facw
> Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/07/2018 at 16:28 | 3 |
Could just mean they are cheaper to fix, or even that GM owners are less likely to fix stuff that breaks.
E92M3
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:32 | 2 |
$50 a month extra compared to driving a boring Honda or Toyota is well worth it to me.
For just $1.33 a day YOU could make difference and save one of these animals could enjoy the hour a day spent in your car.
Darkbrador
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:34 | 0 |
average figure per month , yeah ...
interstate366, now In The Industry
> E92M3
12/07/2018 at 16:38 | 4 |
Way to assume those of us with Hondas or Toyotas don't enjoy them.
Mid Engine
> Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/07/2018 at 16:40 | 1 |
I change my 987 twice a year, 8 quarts of Mobile One 0W-40. I buy the oil when it’s on sale (mostly @ Walmart) and buy the filters from Amazon. On average an oil change costs me $60.
Kim Jong - Healthy
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:43 | 0 |
welp i’m ahead of the curve..
i’m about ~$ 3k out in the last 9 months
but she’s worth every penny
wkiernan
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 16:46 | 1 |
Well jeez, I’m about spend
$900 on a
set of tires for my nine-year-old Mazda, which is hardly an unreliable car, but you know, tires wear out...
Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
> Mid Engine
12/07/2018 at 16:48 | 0 |
The 987's pan is apparently slightly different, so lower capacity. Also uses cheaper oil. But the 9A1 engine is THIRSTY . My dealer charged me book and did a FULL drain, just to be safe (which takes over an hour.) Billed 9.6, actually put in 10.5 of Mobil1 0W40.
Contrast with the GM LTG, which is considered a hog at 5.5qts (the default ‘$19.99' specials assume 5qts) and the GM 3800 which is 4.5qts.
Mid Engine
> Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/07/2018 at 16:50 | 0 |
Well, it takes me an hour to do so I don’t mind making the effort. It would take me longer to drive to a garage and wait for my turn.. I guess I default to DIY.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> wkiernan
12/07/2018 at 16:54 | 0 |
Well it’s good you’re doing your part to get Mazda higher up on the list!
LOL
On a more serious note though, these are averages. Those tires you bought should be good for the next few years.
And compared to other vehicles, an installed price of $900 for a decent set of new tires is not bad at all.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> Kim Jong - Healthy
12/07/2018 at 16:55 | 0 |
It’s good you’re doing your part to keep BMW at the top of the chart! LOL
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> Darkbrador
12/07/2018 at 16:57 | 0 |
Nah... BMWs are expensive, but not US$12,000/year expensive... unless you have an old V12 7 or 8 series... and the engine or transmission just shit the bed.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> E92M3
12/07/2018 at 17:00 | 1 |
Back when I had my Saab, I found I averaged about $150/month more compared to a Ford or a Honda. Mind you only part of that was maintenance/repairs. Some of that was due to insurance and fuel costs that were a little higher. Oh and more speeding tickets as well.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> farscythe - makin da cawfee!
12/07/2018 at 17:02 | 1 |
Well these are averages. So I imagine that for every person who had a BAD year, there has to be at least a few who had a ‘nothing breaking’ year.
MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 17:03 | 0 |
And compared to other vehicles, an installed price of $900 for a decent set of new tires is not bad at all.
What kind of tires are you getting. I’ve bought tires for a Matrix, F150 (winter and all-season ) , and a C3 Corvette and have yet to pay more than $600 for a set .
If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 17:05 | 1 |
I'm skewing it. I only spend $300/yr on my 2000 BMW.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/07/2018 at 17:05 | 0 |
Yeah, I’ve read somewhere that that’s the German approach to help avoid oil starvation and oil degradation even during hard cornering and hard driving... just give it a massive oil sump.
In the case of the old air cooled 911s, the oil does double duty in that it’s used for lubrication AND helping to keep the engine cool.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/07/2018 at 17:09 | 1 |
Yup... You’ve seen me say many times before
that Mopars like the PT Cruiser are not nearly as crappy overall
as people make them out to be.
farscythe - makin da cawfee!
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 17:10 | 2 |
*used to work in a bimmer garage*
the lucky few are
well....
lucky
WilliamsSW
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 17:10 | 0 |
So, the cheapest car is a new BMW - nice!
RPM esq.
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 17:25 | 1 |
Have owned many German cars, can confirm that they contain relatively massive quantities of oil.
RPM esq.
> farscythe - makin da cawfee!
12/07/2018 at 17:27 | 0 |
That’s because one year you’ll only buy oil and wiper blades, and the next year you’ll pay $2,500 for a single service.
DC3 LS, Fuck Hyundai, now and forever
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 17:30 | 0 |
S eeing Subaru so high, validates my opinion making all your cars AWD is dumb.
RPM esq.
> MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
12/07/2018 at 17:30 | 0 |
Basically anything other than the very cheapest ones... I don’t think I’ve ever been lucky enough to spend only $150 per tire installed, on any car.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
12/07/2018 at 17:31 | 0 |
In my case, I’ve spent $900 after installation and tax on Nokian WRG3 tires... which are good quality 4-season tires. But that’s $900 in Canadian funds. So that’s maybe $700 in USD.
There is also 13% sales tax in Ontario that I’m including in the cost
.
RPM esq.
> Urambo Tauro
12/07/2018 at 17:33 | 0 |
These are averages. If anything, it suggests that both are expensive to fix when anything breaks, but Porsches are surprisingly expensive to maintain while they’re new and still under warranty. But it could be as simple as Porsches requiring lots of oil and expensive tires.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> farscythe - makin da cawfee!
12/07/2018 at 17:34 | 1 |
Well if you worked
in a garage, you’re only gonna see the portion of people who are spending more. You’re not gonna see the people who keep the costs down by doing some of their own work... or at least not see them as much unless they were having a bad year...
farscythe - makin da cawfee!
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 17:38 | 1 |
95% of people dont do their own work,,, either coz they cant or coz they cant be arsed and can afford to have it done
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> WilliamsSW
12/07/2018 at 17:47 | 1 |
Tied with Cadillac!
Except that BMW is NOT “The Standard of The World”
Variance
> Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/07/2018 at 17:47 | 0 |
Reminds me of my GT350: 10 quarts of 5W-50 and a unique filter, running me around $130 for a DIY oil change. I don’t do it every 3k miles, though; that’s a huge waste with modern synthetics.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> farscythe - makin da cawfee!
12/07/2018 at 17:50 | 2 |
Which is to say that 5% work hard to bring the average down!
Also there’s a segment of BMW owners who don’t have the money and ignore issues until there is a catastrophic failure where they just get rid of the vehicle.
But their spending on maintenance and repairs was very low!!!
WilliamsSW
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 17:51 | 0 |
On top of that, I’ve had a chance to thrash the CTS, ATS, and 3 series in the last few years. The most fun to drive cars w ere the Caddys.
Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 17:52 | 0 |
I’m surprised that Jaguars appear to cost less than any of the Germans to maintain.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
12/07/2018 at 17:57 | 0 |
Well back in 2007, that was when Ford still owned Jaguar. And the lower cost of ownership and improved quality is a direct result of nearly 20 years of
Ford ownership.
for Michigan
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 18:24 | 1 |
*Is 2010 BMW owner. *
*Looks at list. *
“Shit.”
(I knew what I was getting into.)
Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
> Variance
12/07/2018 at 18:32 | 0 |
Flat 6 plus oil squirters that costs well over $30k to replace? Yeah. You don’t take chances.
MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> RPM esq.
12/07/2018 at 18:37 | 1 |
Those vehicles have Goodyears, Firestones, and Continentals so not really bottom of the heap
MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 18:38 | 0 |
Ahh...$900 Canadian makes more sense now. That’s more reasonable
E92M3
> interstate366, now In The Industry
12/07/2018 at 18:46 | 0 |
If it makes you feel better I actually drive a honda product most days, but I’m fortunate to not HAVE to drive it EVERY day.
interstate366, now In The Industry
> E92M3
12/07/2018 at 19:27 | 0 |
K
Variance
> Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/07/2018 at 19:32 | 0 |
Most modern engines have piston oil squirters, that’s nothing special; it is an extremely common strategy for managing piston temperatures . I would recommend having an oil analysis done at some point if you haven’t already ; you’ll probably find that there has been limited to no breakdown of the additives in the oil, and that it would be safe to run for at least twice that interval.
Another thing to note is that a lightly-used oil filter technically filters better than a brand-new one. As contaminants are caught by the filter media, the “filter efficiency” of the media improves (I.E., it catches more and smaller particles), essentially up until the point that the filter becomes so clogged that the bypass valve opens and allows unfiltered oil to circulate. Unless you have excessive oil contamination from some sort of engine defect, you are possibly replacing the filter when it is actually within its best performance range.
E92M3
> interstate366, now In The Industry
12/07/2018 at 19:38 | 0 |
Way to assume I missed the point of making assumptions about your lack of enjoyment.
interstate366, now In The Industry
> E92M3
12/07/2018 at 19:45 | 0 |
So how else is one supposed to interpret “but I’m fortunate to not have to drive it everyday” other than being condescending or elitist? It’s people like you that keep me away from German cars as much as it is their greater maintenance risk factor.
wkiernan
> MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
12/07/2018 at 19:48 | 1 |
I was looking at
Bridgestone Potenza S001
s in 205/45-17 for an ‘09 Miata. Including mounting, an alignment and sales tax the quote I got was right around $900 (U.S., not Canadian). Assuming they last three ye
ar
s, that’s $300 a year right there.
It could sure be worse. Just imagine what tires for a 911 cost!
I might not do it though. I read recently that the widely praised RE003, which you can’t get in the U.S.A. under its original name, is being sold here
as a “
Firestone Firehawk Indy 500"
, and at a much
nicer
price too.
Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
> Variance
12/07/2018 at 20:22 | 0 |
Uh, no, that is not how it works. There’s this thing called ‘physics’ and ‘higher rotational speeds’ and ‘I wasn’t talking about the piston squirters’ and ‘obnoxious variable pressure system.’ Oh, and ‘I’ve built 10k RPM V8's.’ I don’t care what ‘the masses’ think they know, and most definitely not ‘the experts’ who have never even seen the engine in person, much less how I drive it. If I’m doing 3k, there’s a goddamn good reason I’m doing 3k.
Not to mention, you’re trying to compare a GT350 with ‘average’ tolerances and a single wet sump oil pump to a Porsche 9A1 which has tight tolerances and an active-on-demand dry sump system. They’re not even remotely similar oiling systems or even remotely similar demands. That’s before we get into the whole lie that ‘only engine damage contaminates oil.’
And ‘lightly used filters better than a brand new one’? Wow. Just... no. No. That’s not even remotely accurate or correct to begin with. That’s twice as incorrect for a cartridge system. That’s exactly as valid as claiming you don’t need to change your oil because you burn 3 out of 4.5 quarts every 5000 miles, or insisting that a dirty air filter is better than a clean one.
If you’re doing a hack like that,
you used the wrong filter media, start over
. This is all stuff covered in all the engineering books and all the owner’s manual, under the ‘severe duty’ schedule.
Variance
> Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/07/2018 at 21:05 | 1 |
I’m going to ignore the fact that the majority of your post had nothing to do with what I said, and/or was putting words into my mouth, and just say that you need to calm WAY the fuck down. Being a condescending prick does not get your point across, and just makes you look like an ass (plus I’m pretty sure it’s against the spirit of the OppositeLock “rules”).
If you had just said that you maintain a 3k mile oil change interval beca us e you track and/or beat the piss out of your car (which I take from your mention of the “severe duty” maintenance schedule) , that would have been perfectly fine.
Oh, and you might want to check your own understanding of physics and fluid dynamics. A dirty air filter is worse than a clean one not because of the filtering performance, but because of the flow performance.
415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/07/2018 at 22:55 | 0 |
Well it has to travel so far for the cooling, so there is a lot travelling in the system as well, more volume .
pip bip - choose Corrour
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/08/2018 at 05:46 | 0 |
i’ll stick with Mitsubishi
davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/10/2018 at 16:06 | 0 |
And I’d say 3 car payments of $370 per year for a 10 year old car that you absolutely love isn’t that bad of a deal. Last I checked, most OPPOs aren’t into cars for the value proposition. =)
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
12/10/2018 at 16:45 | 0 |
“ And I’d say 3 car payments of $370 per year for a 10 year old car that you absolutely love isn’t that bad of a deal”
Yeah but that’s not how it works.
With an old car, you’ll go for 1-3 years of minimal work, then you’ll have a ‘bad’ year. And if the bad year on a Ford means spending $1500, the bad year for the BMW will be $3000 to $5000.
And remember when I said that survey is based on averages? Well sometimes you might deviate to ‘much higher than average’.
I knew one guy who bought a “cheap” e46
BMW 3 series (which I told him not to buy because he wasn’t the type to do his own work or research with a car like that) and he spent around $9000 on repairs and maintenance in the first year of ownership. But part of the problem was also due to half-assed repairs the previous owner/seller did.
And even after that, he was still saying how great of a car it was.
And this doesn’t factor in the other little ways they’re more expensive... like the oil changes where you use twice as much oil... or you need to use fully synthetic oil... or twice as much oil that must be synthetic!
And there’s another factor going on with this survey... it relies on people remembering *ALL* the money they spent on their cars.
And in my experience, owners of European cars tend to be a little more ‘forgetful’ when it comes to ALL the money they spend on their cars.
I attribute it to European
Car Owner Stockholm Syndrome.
For example... A friend of mine wanted to buy another friend’s VW Jetta 1.8T... and the selling friend claimed that “
it’s been totally reliable... no problems!”
And then I asked about the problematic ignition coils... “Oh yeah... had to replace those”. Any check engine lights? “Oh yeah, I had to get that fixed a couple of times too”. What about the power windows? “Oh yeah... had to get that fixed on a couple doors as well” Any leaks or issues with the sunroof?. “I had to get that fixed a few times”... and so on.
And suddenly the “trouble-free rock solid” VW product wasn’t looking so rock solid or trouble free.
davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/10/2018 at 17:01 | 1 |
10 year old, 120k mile M3 owner here. Can confirm - is not cheap.
Do I love it? Yes.
No regrets.
davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
> farscythe - makin da cawfee!
12/10/2018 at 17:03 | 1 |
[crosses fingers, knocks wood, rubs rabbit foot]
B_dol
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/10/2018 at 18:05 | 0 |
Cool, everybody knows “that one person” who had a nightmarish experience with XYZ vehicle. N ot all prior (nor current) owners and cars are created equal, but perpetuating the stereotype drives depreciation!
For what’s it worth all old cars require and that is definitely reflected in the chart.
B_dol
> davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
12/10/2018 at 18:10 | 1 |
Certainly the missing piece here is the cost of entry into each vehicle segment (payments, insurance etc.). A used car buyer enters at a much cheaper cost for both his monthly (or 1-time) payment and insurance, as well as pocketing the added interest of a new car loan etc.
It boils down to how much is your time and patience worth, because no 7+ year old car is going to be headache and unexpected service free.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
12/10/2018 at 19:29 | 0 |
And that’s great as long as you can afford it and you understand what you’re getting into.
But I’ve come across more than a few people who buy a used BMW for the price of a Corolla... and they’re expecting the maintenance/repair situation to be similar to a Corolla because “they cost the same to buy”.
Or something like that.
Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
> B_dol
12/10/2018 at 19:32 | 0 |
Yeah, but many times, the stereotype is based on a lot of truth and/or first hand experience many people have had.
A used BMW can be great for the right type of buyer.
Right type defined as a buyer who has the extra money to spend and/or is willing to research/fix problems themselves.
davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
> Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/10/2018 at 20:00 | 1 |
Exactly. I waited until I was 34 to buy a car like this, and could truly afford it (paid it off in 2 years), and afford to modify it some and take it to the track . And I give that advice to anyone who’s interested in one - to make sure you really can afford it . If I’d bought it earlier, I would’ve probably ended up regretting the purchase or selling it long ago.
The maintenance/repair situation matches the MSRP, not the purchase price. That’s common knowledge (or should be). =)
davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
> B_dol
12/10/2018 at 20:03 | 0 |
Yup, unless you really win the previous owner lottery (with all service records)!