I drove a manual for the first time since getting the GTI

"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
12/02/2018 at 20:44 • Filed to: None

I have absolutely no regrets about getting the DSG. Being a daily driver, the DSG is just perfect. My manual elitism is now dead. Manual vs. Auto is now the same as Carb vs. EFI, there is a time and place, but modern versions are just better for the average commute.

Pic related, because that’s what I drove.

DISCUSSION (58)

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 20:54

I'd still contend that the STs are better performers. But I agree that an auto GTI is way better as an only car

Future Heap Owner > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 20:55

Wait, what are carbs good for?

promoted by the color red > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 20:56

How does the RS drive? I briefly toyed with going into major debt for one of these but the head gasket woes and driving position turned me off.

Just Jeepin' > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 20:56

I never thought I’d willingly buy an automatic when a manual was available in the same vehicle, but the new Gladiator’s tow rating is much better with the auto (something like 4k vs 7k for the Rubicon trim). Maybe I can live with an automatic. Maybe.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 20:59

The RS would benefit from a DSG gearbox or a sequential 7 speed that is like the old rally cars. Just bump it forward to shift up and pull it to shift down.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
12/02/2018 at 20:59

They aren’t. Peformance Pack vs. my FiST, it’s not even a contest. The GTI feels so much more connected. I never laughed or smiled as much in the ST as I have in this thing. Around a corner, it’s just nuts. Off the line, it feels fast. The new car feeling is pretty much gone, but the excitement every time I get in is still very much there, and stronger than it was when I got it.

That being said, ST>RS. I drove the same RS while I had my FiST, and I didn’t have any desire to go out an get an RS. It’s fun, but once you are risking jail time. The GTI is a good mix of both slow car fun, and relatively fast car fun.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Just Jeepin'
12/02/2018 at 21:01

For what it’s worth, the ZF8 is absolutely fantastic.

Just Jeepin' > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 21:03

So I keep hearing, but honestly it’s not about the quality of the transmission, I just really enjoy using the clutch.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > promoted by the color red
12/02/2018 at 21:03

I’ve never been so let down by a car in my life, if I’m honest. I approached it like a hero, left satisfied with my Fiesta the first time I drove it. Two weeks or so later, I traded that in on GTI, because that blew me away.

It just feels less alive than every review paints the picture of it being. It’s not super uncomfortable, it’s not super racy, it’s just kind of meh... Until you floor it, and then it wakes up. But 1-9/10's, it’s just kind, eh.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Future Heap Owner
12/02/2018 at 21:04

Talking about the good ole days, and technically, in certain applications they can make more power.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Just Jeepin'
12/02/2018 at 21:05

I thought I did too, but then I came to the realization that most of the autos I had used were designed before I was born.

DipodomysDeserti > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 21:09

I enjoy my carb’d vehicles more than my fuel injected ones and my manual vehicles more than my auto ones. However, I’d also rather live in poverty than sit in traffic every morning just to sit in an office all day. So, to each their own.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > DipodomysDeserti
12/02/2018 at 21:09

Preference is different than them being better.

DipodomysDeserti > Just Jeepin'
12/02/2018 at 21:10

My wife has a ZF8 in her bimmer. It’s a good auto, but not fun at all compared to the stick in my Jeep. She’d rather have a manual as well.

DipodomysDeserti > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 21:15

Only if you think you’re preference is somehow better than someone else’s.

Just Jeepin' > DipodomysDeserti
12/02/2018 at 21:18

Thanks, I think. Sigh.

Milky > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 21:20

Speaking in absolutes just makes you seem wrong. I couldn't be happier with my manual.

Chuckles > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 21:22

I think automatics have come a long way. At one point, manuals were cheaper, got you better gas mileage, and better performance. But somewhere along the way, automatics caught up on the gas mileage and performance fronts. Sure driving a manual is more engaging, but that's one of the only arguments left in favor of having a manual. They both have a time and a place now.

marshknute > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 21:27

Unless it’s a Porsche PDK, I just don’t see any subjective merit to an automatic. It’s a good transmission, but holy fuck is it boring. I still prefer the manual ‘box in my dad’s GT4.

At the very least, Porsche’s PDK is always smooth, and quickly recognizes when it’s no longer appropriate to hold high RPMs, even if it’s in Sport Mode (ex: you get stuck behind traffic, or enter a town ) . Ferrari’s dual-clutch, on the other hand has no situational awareness and is abysmally clunky and unrefined in every day driving. It’s only marginally better than their old single clutch gearbox (which was about as comfortable as falling down a flight of stairs while wearing leg braces)

The last VW dual clutch I drove was from the Mk5 R32 , and it was honestly worse than Ferrari’s abysmal single-clutch abomination . At least a half- second delay between pulling the paddles and the gearbox finally shifting, not to mention the car doesn’t fucking move from a stop unless you floor the throttle (because a dual-clutch can’t feather the clutch, and thus requires you give it enough gas to be fully in gear).

Until automatic gearboxes become telepathic, I don’t see myself ever giving up the third pedal.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > marshknute
12/02/2018 at 21:29

That was from 10+ years ago, it’s came quite a long way.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 21:40

Kinja'd!!!

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
12/02/2018 at 21:43

These are facts.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 21:48

I gave up a stick for an auto as my car is strictly a commuter, zero regrets as well

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 21:51

Word.

I have a DSG Skoda Octavia VRs (=Jetta GTI) which I normally DD and a manual GT86 track rat which occasionally gets pressed into daily use. Every time I take the 86 commuting I think “I’ve missed DDing a manual; it’s more fun”. Then after a couple of days I’m hangi ng out for so me thi ng that can inch along in traffic w ithout dri ving me nuts.

On the track or a windy backroad, it’s a different story. But that’s not most people’s commute.

Though I’d add that if you think a DSG is just about perfect for commuting, try an EV. Even a humble Leaf will convince you that * any* t ransmission which involves multiple ratios is utter crap.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/02/2018 at 21:53

I’ve put 5k miles on my car in 3 months, so I just don’t think an EV is that practical for me.

404 - User No Longer Available > marshknute
12/02/2018 at 21:59

The ZF 8HP is also very close to tipping me to automatic DD . The BMW implementations, not the Chrysler ones, that is.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 22:09

Pick your EV. 5k in 3 months avera g es to an 80 mile roundtrip: a stretch for a Leaf, but doable for pretty much any of the others - the L e af’s range is crap by modern EV standards, never mind by ICE ones .

Not that I was particu larly advocating buying one, just commenting that the seamless res p onse of an EV’s direct drive system makes you comp letely re-evaluate what you think of as a “good” transmission. Totally blew me away when I first dro ve one in traffic - it wasn’t at all one of the benefits I was expecting.

Joe6pack > marshknute
12/02/2018 at 22:10

DSG=PDK

Ash78, voting early and often > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 22:12

Sideways take:

Most modern autos are just as good as DSG now, or close enough to not matter.

I was shocked at how little difference there was in shifting speed and “connection” between the GTI (DSG) and Golf wagon (Tiptronic)... and that’s just within a single brand.

I still like the simplicity and predictability of an old school manual, but now that I’m a left foot braker, I don’t see myself going back full time. Just occasionally for the variety.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/02/2018 at 22:12

My commute is only 30 miles round trip, but I like to take weekend trips which add up to a 250 or so miles, which is pushing it on most of them.

for Michigan > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 22:13

I really think it depends on the car. The 6AT in my E87 1-series just feels wrong for that application even though it’s a decent auto, b ut I’ve never found myself wishing for a Lincoln MKZ with a stick . Similarly , t here was something about the 6MT in the S550 Mustang GT I drove that just felt out of place in that car, but boy does the close-ratio 6MT in an NB Miata SE feel right.

Basically, I think it’s unfair and shortsighted to make blanket statements like, “Manual transmissions are better than automatics”, or even, “Automatic transmission are better for commuting ”. There are a lot of factors that go into which transmission type fits which application, including vehicle type, engine , aspiration, primary use, practical limitations, quality of execution, and personal preference. It’s not as simple as saying one style is better than another.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 22:18

Fair comment. I don’t think EVs work as an only car for most people (yet). We also have a Leaf, which my wife uses as her DD. It’s a fantastic round-town shoppi ng trolley, and it saves us a buttload of money on gas and servi c ing, bu t there’s no way we could live with it if we didn’t have the Skoda avai lable for longhaul work.

Tristan > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 22:27

Confession time: I bought my manual GLI without ever having driven a DSG. I’m just afraid I might like it since the car’s primary purpose is commuting . Hell, I’ve even defended the NC Miata’s automatic in the past.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Tristan
12/02/2018 at 22:29

That’s an early enough DSG that I would have stayed away from it anyways. Plus, from everything I’ve gathered, the Mk5&6 manuals are significantly more engaging than the Mk7.

Tristan > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 22:31

Ahhhh... Good, good. I do want to experience one someday, though. It does sound like a great compromise.

Shankems > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 22:44

After buying my first stick, I’m never going back to an automatic. Will definitely buy an EV as a second car at some point.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Shankems
12/02/2018 at 23:05

Uh...

Shankems > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 23:14

EV fo r the commute scenario you mentioned.

Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 23:17

I dont think the argument will ever be about whats better for a commute. Some people don’t want their commute to feel like a commute, so they be rev matchin and heel-toeing to that 9-5 instead of clicking paddles. Sometimes i nefficient is more fun

Milky > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/02/2018 at 23:23

L iterally you: “but modern versions are just better for the average commute.”

That at least will be EV.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Milky
12/02/2018 at 23:40

Literally him: “I’m not going back to an automatic.” “I’m getting an EV.”

Wuelling > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/03/2018 at 00:00

Technically EVs aren't autos

Milky > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/03/2018 at 00:21

Yea, if you’re not putting in gear yourself why even have them?

Im definitely on the same page. Volts to Teslas make sense you have to deal with a lot of traffic. I like my “pure” sports car, but could see myself in an EV for commuting.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/03/2018 at 00:31

When I was car shopping I personally found the Fo ST very appliance like (never got a chance to try a FiST and also, too small). I t had nice features, it had plenty of power, but it didn’t give me the fizz.

I dro ve a manual MK6, a manual MK7 and a DCT MK7 and had nothing but a smile on my face the whole time. They were so so good. Even if the ST was a better performing car specs wise (which I don’t think it is) the GTI is so much more fun it’s a no brainer . Not to mention the interior quality is miles better.

duurtlang > 404 - User No Longer Available
12/03/2018 at 01:02

I drove a BMW with that box once. It’s not fair to only blame it on the transmission as I never drove a similar ~2016 3-series with a manual, but m y g od was that car a snoozefest. Very competent, very little engagement. Good commuter, but it had no business being called 'fun' in any way.

Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/03/2018 at 04:33

I’m with you on this one. I went from a MK5 manual GTI to a MK7 DSG GTI when my wife’s knees got really bad and expected disappointment and less fun. Wrong. It was perfect. Auto for when I’m just not feeling it and the paddles are every bit as fun as a manual when hooning. Jumping between my manual Porsche and the DSG VW makes me think if I ever decide to buy another 911 I’ll give the PDK a very serious consideration even though prior to owning the DSG GTI I would have considered it sacrilege. DSG in the MK7 is the best transmission I’ve ever used.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Wuelling
12/03/2018 at 06:40

Do you have to clutch and shift them?

marshknute > Joe6pack
12/03/2018 at 06:50

Not at all.

DSG is a dual clutch. As Ferrari and Mercedes have proved, there are brand new cars with shit dual-clutches. Porsche’s PDK is the exception.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's
12/03/2018 at 06:57

But it isn’t even really more fun anymore.

Nick Has an Exocet > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/03/2018 at 07:56

You’re comparing a really good DCT to a manual in commuting. I own and have commuted in both. To be honest, there are so many other things that matter that the argument is moot. I enjoy commuting in my Miata because it’s a more fun car than the Ralliart. The Ralliart is a bit bit for San Francisco. Do I miss the Ralliart DCT when I’m stuck on a hill in SF in bumper to bumper ? Yeah. Does it stop me from taking the Miata? No.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's
12/03/2018 at 08:03

we should be friends . I miss r ev matching for 16 miles at 8 mph

OPPOsaurus WRX > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/03/2018 at 08:06

I dorve a manual for the first time since the Alroad gave up on my. It was only for 1 mile but I had about 50 plots to somehow acquire that vehicle from my friend , and none of those involved him getting paid for it. (2017 Tacoma, 4cyl 5 sp). I so very much miss the 3rd pedal

404 - User No Longer Available > duurtlang
12/03/2018 at 08:49

You need it coded for the sport auto. Sport+ actually changes it quite a bit.

My friend with a GTI said the same thing until I told him about the switch.

Dru > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/03/2018 at 09:16

*Frantically searches for Angry React button*

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Dru
12/03/2018 at 10:30

functionoverfashion > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/03/2018 at 13:13

I agree; my manual elitism was strong, until I drove my wife’s Mini. It’s a car you can get with a manual so we were totally against it beyond a test drive - “If we like it we’ll just get a manual of the same thing” but it’s just not bad at all.

Our Volvo is constantly in too high a gear to accelerate, or maintain speed up a hill - but if you push it hard enough to down shift, you have to quickly back off or else you’ll be going too fast; but let off the gas and it upshifts into a gear where it can’t maintain speed. Repeat. It’s maddening. This has been my experience with every automatic I’ve ever driven, to varying degrees.

Until the Mini. It’s got decent low-rpm torque, and then when you do push it a little, it will downshift *just right* and get up to speed. Popping it into “sport mode” it’s even better, the shift points are perfect and the power is adequate.

Sure I’d rather have a manual, so would my wife. But she gets on the highway 5 minutes from our house, then goes 40 miles at 75mph, then gets off the highway immediately into city streets, stoplights, traffic. The downsides are minimal and subjective.

duurtlang > 404 - User No Longer Available
12/03/2018 at 13:29

It shifted at all the right moments already. Smooth and fast, at just the right time. Easily the best auto I had ever driven. Perfect for a commuter.

The steering was too light and lacked feel, the suspension was not very communicative and then that transmission. I just felt like I was driving a PlayStation game, very impressive but rather artificial. Driving my old beater afterwards felt like coming home.

Wuelling > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/07/2018 at 11:22

They don't have transmissions but technically do have one gear. It was a bad joke. I feel bad now