V Tail is Best Tail

"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
11/19/2018 at 13:43 • Filed to: Beechcraft, J35, Bonanza, two wings good

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for $44,500 which isn’t a bad price for a very clean aircraft. Just needs tip tanks because I am obsessed with Learjets and tip tanks are the bees knees. Also 4 0 more gallons of fuel = better range.

Damn that is a good looking aircraft. Can be hard to control without enough experience. They had a tendency to shake and stall if you couldn’t handle the V-tail

DISCUSSION (74)

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 13:49

Yep, that’s a pretty plane.

punkgoose17 > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 13:57

Yes to V tails.

Would the 1 less tail plane make up for the extra drag of the tip tanks?

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:00

With a fresh annual, only 800 SMOH, and a recently overhauled prop?

TBH something seems wrong here, it’s too cheap - although it’s an old airframe, I guess? I was expecting 2500 SMOH and in need of an annual, plus no avionics.

For Sweden > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:05

But what if we want to live

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:08

There’s nothing inherently difficult about controlling that airplane, just don’t fly outside its performance envelope. (like a bunch of people did way back when, earning its nickname) This is actually good advice for any aircraft. I’m partial to the A36 myself. I borrow my pal’s Bonanza on occasion in exchange for giving him his flight review every other year and doing IFR currency flying.

TheRealBicycleBuck > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:08

I was just looking at that plane. The old Bonanzas are high on my list of wants. I’m just not ready for something quite so slippery and fast. Or so I’ve been told.

WilliamsSW > For Sweden
11/19/2018 at 14:10

Then we should probably wait more than a week after getting our private to transition into one

CaptDale - is secretly British > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/19/2018 at 14:11

Yes they are high up on my list too. Hopefully soon you can have something that wonderful. I can’t wait... Just have a little longer till I start school

CaptDale - is secretly British > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom
11/19/2018 at 14:12

Well yeah, most people aren’t the right people to be pushing any plane’s performance. Makes sense as to why I have heard bad things about them. People being the issue rather than the plane makes more sense.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > punkgoose17
11/19/2018 at 14:13

Minimal drag from the tanks, just a few kts.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 14:14

Every now and then I see decent planes “undervalued” but to some people selling them for more seems wrong or it isn’t worth the same to them as the market dictates.

WilliamsSW > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/19/2018 at 14:14

No offense, but you’re not - take your time, and I’d recommend some time in the Warrior/172/whatever, then transition in to a high performance fixed gear airplane (like a 182 etc) before getting into a slippery retractable.

Quick transitions, overconfidence, and poor training is what made the Bonanza the ‘doctor killer’.

TheRealBicycleBuck > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:17

Most crashes were related to exceeded the never exceed speed. The empennage would start flapping and tear off the plane. There were a couple of airworthiness directives which addressed the problem, one extending the length of the empennage, another reinforcing the structure where the leading edge of the empennage attaches.

Fun fact: the T-34 Mentor trainer was based on the Bonanza.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:18

As a result of a few of these shedding their tails many years ago there was an AD issued to reinforce the tail structure. I don’t know if that would’ve been necessary if those planes hadn’t been flown beyond Vne and broke up. The Bo is a pretty solid design. These days the Cirrus SR22 is the go-to airplane for folks with $500 -800k to spend on personal transportation, but at least those have the ballistic chute for when the shit hits the fan.

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:18

Yes, and I am absolutely not an expert on the market for Model 35 Bonanzas - I don’t even follow them.

If you were serious, you would absolutely be getting a PPI, which might uncover some warts (corrosion, quality of repair on the older gear up incident, poor rigging, whatever). Or, it might not, and you could be getting a bargain.

One thing I noticed is that the engine is 800 into a 1500 TBO (which seems pretty low) that was done 20 years ago. I’d get an oil analysis, and think about budgeting a rebuild on it sooner rather than later - that might be part of the reason for the price.

PyramidHat > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:20

That is clean. Also like the dual yokes.

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 14:20

There are plenty of them around with decent avionics and low hours for that price range. Upgrading to ADSB will be required to keep it current, but that’s not terribly expensive.

PyramidHat > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 14:20

Something like 5800 hours. Not bad for that age.

CaptDale - is secretly British > punkgoose17
11/19/2018 at 14:21

Actually the tip tanks work well as a wing tip device. Actually aids performance a little

https://www.d-shannon-aviation.com/upgrades/tip-tank-solution.html

https://www.jlosborne.com/bonanza.htm

WilliamsSW > PyramidHat
11/19/2018 at 14:22

Yeah, I saw that - 100 hours/year basically, not bad at all.

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 14:22

Yeah, I know. It’s like a teenager with a corvette. I realize I’m not ready, but the want is BAD!!!

PyramidHat > For Sweden
11/19/2018 at 14:24

Wrap yourself in bubble wrap

WilliamsSW > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/19/2018 at 14:24

Hm, didn’t realize they were that cheap. I’m not sure what people consider ‘decent avionics’ these days, but the setup this airplane has is pretty much what I learned in (no GPS).

CaptDale - is secretly British > PyramidHat
11/19/2018 at 14:27

Yeah dual yokes are nice

WilliamsSW > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/19/2018 at 14:28

Ha - of course!! Flying faster airplanes is all about getting your brain to move faster and faster, to stay ahead of the airplane. And, on a related note, managing airspeed/altitude to get it on the ground safely.

I’ve witnessed more than a few Mooney drivers who liked to carry a few extra knots on short final - that combination is an excellent recipe for landing accidents.

WilliamsSW > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/19/2018 at 14:30

Exceeding V ne is generally an invitation to experience flutter in any aircraft. But not for long.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:38

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/28882611/1959-beechcraft-g50-twin-bonanza

Here’s a ‘59 T-bone for $44k if you really want to spend some money.

On fuel. And maintenance. And insurance.

RallyWrench > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:40

FOCUS. No airplanes. TVRs.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 14:41

Oh yeah. L ow and slow for a long time I suppose

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > For Sweden
11/19/2018 at 14:41

“ Every man dies. But not every man truly lives ”

- Some Dead Guy

WilliamsSW > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom
11/19/2018 at 14:44

A 60 year old light twin with geared engines?

This is about the equivalent of a salvage titled 80's Alfa, in terms of bad ideas.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom
11/19/2018 at 14:45

Oh my that is so good. I don’t even have a single engine yet let alone a dual.

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 14:47

It’s not that bad - I transitioned into 182's not long after I got my PP, working on my instrument ticket at the same time. That’s a decent bump up from the fixed propeller airplanes, but still a step below the retractables. You get a nice power/speed bump, but still have plenty of drag when you need it (it also helps that you can fly approaches at the same speeds as a 172).

CaptDale - is secretly British > RallyWrench
11/19/2018 at 14:48

But I want both! Also I don’t have a license yet, but getting your licence is cheaper owning your own plane... But for that I should really get a 172 or something not that powerful and slippery. Maybe a nice Kit Fox, but then I don’t have a tailwheel rating... Driving licences should be tiered like this.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 14:49

Yeah I am excited to start training. I really want to get to jets. Nothing like the climb speed up to and the quiet at 45000 feet.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 14:51

I know a guy who owned two of these, the maint isn’t as bad as you’d think. Sure there are some recurring ADs but for the most part they’re gas and go. A lot of gas. The engines do have an operating technique so as not to damage the gearbox ( essentially never let the prop drive the engine). But it’s still a 60 year old twin which means cheap to buy but not cheap to run.

WilliamsSW > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom
11/19/2018 at 14:58

I never even really considered a multi-engine rating, mostly because of the $$ involved. Adding in the old airframe and gearing just takes it to new levels in my book. I know they’ve figured out a lot on geared engines that they didn’t know 60 years ago, but I think the TBOs are still shorter?

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 15:00

Heck, even popping out on top of the clouds at 3 ,000 feet in a Cessna 182 is a neat experience, as is nailing an approach to minimums in a 172 right behind 2 bizjets that went missed (sometimes slow is good :)).

CaptDale - is secretly British > PyramidHat
11/19/2018 at 15:00

Make sure it is FAA approved bubble wrap

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 15:01

I want my multi bad! Most of the planes I would like to fly are multi or jets.... so yeah

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 15:05

Then hopefully you can go for it soon! And to each is own - for me, twins are for people who either a) want to fly professionally or b) have a lot of money.

The idea of spending a bunch of time and money in a twin (with one engine caged most of the time because training) just seemed like more than I wanted or needed.

I happened to not fit either category, so I stopped- but I’m sure it would be a fantastic experience.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 15:05

Oh I wholeheartedly agree. My discovery flight was in a 172 and I was fucking amazing. I could fly one of those for a long time and be perfectly content , but would not fully satisfied till I can fly a Learjet 23 or similar. Or single a Phenom.. . oh god that would be so cool

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 15:08

Thank you. The goal is to start at the end of summer next year. So not too far out, but at the same time too far out.

I totally understand why you would want to stop then if single is all you need or want. I do want to fly professionally and make a career and hobby out of it.

Do you still fly?

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 15:09

The world has changed. This is the panel of a modern 172.

Kinja'd!!!

Decent means it has a reasonable com stack and GPS. Better is ADSB compliant.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 15:11

There’s a school here in CT that does multi ratings in two well-worn Senecas. I got my rating there years ago, but rarely have used it since. Nice to have though. Far as the engines the Lyc GO-480 TBO is 1400 hours but I’ve read of these going a few hundred over that with no problems. There’s a Twin Bonanza STC to replace these with the 8 cyl IO-720 if you *really* wanna burn some gas - but at least there’s no gearbox to fuss with :)

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 15:11

That’s not far away!

Sadly, I don’t - I got away from it probably 12 years ago due to money/time issues, and haven’t gotten back. Now, I have a 2 year old son, and a wife who hates the idea - so I just go to Oshkosh every year and dream about it.

It’ll be a while, but I will get back to it, eventually - so I have to live vicariously through you, RealBicycleBuck, and others...

WilliamsSW > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/19/2018 at 15:24

Yeah, I see those every year at Oshkosh. This is what I learned on - and yes, that’s an ADF down there, and I’ve actually flown NDB approaches in actual. Now I’ll go yell at a cloud, thanks.

Kinja'd!!!

WilliamsSW > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom
11/19/2018 at 15:26

The place I learned at had a Duchess - I’m pretty sure it was mostly there to attract good instructors, because that’s who flew it most of the time.

Twin IO 720s sounds like a lot of fun - as well as a lot of avgas burned! !

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 15:30

Yeah, my discovery flight was early on a beautiful Sunday morning in June. Took off from KPWK and flew down the shore of Lake Michigan, over Meigs, past downtown Chicago, then looped around and came back. I was hooked!

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 15:55

That’s basically what I’m learning on too.

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 16:23

Or go somewhere fast while carrying a bigger load.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 16:25

I had a lovely August Sunday over San Luis Obispo. Was far too short (only an hour). Should just take a lesson to get more seat time.

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 16:27

I stopped hang-gliding, SCUBA diving, and motorcycling when my wife got pregnant with our first. Now that they are both in high school, I’m getting the opportunity to do some of my “dangerous” activities again.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 16:29

No it isn’t. But too far to taste it so I am anxious.

That is too bad, but I understand. There is a lot of cost and such going into flying. Too bad she doesn’t like it. Would be nice to have a partial on a 172 or such and thake the family for a quick jaunt to a nice lunch at small strip restaurant and such. But such is life. Hopefully your midlife crisis will sway her ;)

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 16:30

That is one of the cleanest panels I’ve seen. Rentals really take some abuse.

Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 16:34

Best light twin ever. My dad had one when I was growing up, it’s what I learned to fly in. 1969 V35A, N7069N. I adored that airplane.

WilliamsSW > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/19/2018 at 16:34

I grabbed that off the Internet. But I mostly learned in brand new C172Rs, and they were pretty clean. They did have 1 C172N, which had a much crappier panel, 1 0 less HP, and a carburetor, which I usually tried to avoid.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!!
11/19/2018 at 16:36

Yeah? Learned to fly in a V35? That is cool!

WilliamsSW > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/19/2018 at 16:37

For now, I get where she’s coming from. Once he’s older, I’ll have more time for it anyways.

Good for you!

TheRealBicycleBuck > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 16:38

I’ve flown in lots of Cessnas over the years , from 150s to 182s. The best one was rated for spins and my friend loved to demonstrate how spins work. I’ve been able to fly several Cherokees, from my go-to rental 140, a 160, and a 180. It’s funny how they all felt about the same. I enjoy learning new skills and progress fairly quickly , so I’m a bit concerned about outgrowing a tiny plane, especially if I’m going to buy one.

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 16:42

Yeah, honestly we’re too busy now even if I did want to push the issue - plus we’re saving to build a house.

For what I want, a partial on a 182 or similar would be perfect - so hopefully one day...

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 16:42

Ah, but those lessons are addictive!

PyramidHat > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 16:46

Ah! The rebuild is old.. .that’s why so cheap. Averaging 40 hours runtime per year might not be enough to prevent rust in the engine...I’d add $30K for a rebuild...

PyramidHat > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/19/2018 at 16:48

The club I belong to has one for rent and they require 350 hrs before one can rent it...so that’s my over/under...

WilliamsSW > PyramidHat
11/19/2018 at 16:52

Completely agree- - and also, I just looked up the IO- 470C. TBO is 1500 hours - or 12 years, per Continental Motors . So it’s really well past TBO as it is - for exactly the reason you describe.

It’s legal for Part 91 ops, but I would rebuild it immediately.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 16:54

Yes they are, but I need more. Plus no harm having some more hours

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 16:56

*cough* privet grass strip with hanger *cough*

Yeah I understand those family needs will come before your own. damn kids ;) but hey its working alright for you right now. Need to find those local guys with planes just to take you up here and there then.

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 17:00

This subdivision is about 15 minutes from me - my wife would NEVER want to live here, but I would:

http://www.ll22.org/

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 17:02

That is amazing!! Now also through in an attached race track and I found where I want to live!!

WilliamsSW > CaptDale - is secretly British
11/19/2018 at 17:10

Neighborhoods like that are all over the place - there’s a handful around Chicago, though I think the others are all farther from Chicago than Brookeridge is. I bet there’s one near you somewhere - though many of them are big $$. Brookeridge isn’t expensive by Chicago standards - because the houses all seem to be 40+ years old.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 17:31

I’d prefer an older house. That is the coolest thing ever. I hadn’t thought of that before! But then again I just want a huge ranch and my own hanger and strip

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW
11/19/2018 at 22:12

Some of the most expensive real estate in the Houston area is the hangar/homes at the south end of KDWH.

Grindintosecond > CaptDale - is secretly British
12/10/2018 at 12:22

tip-tank v-tails are awesome! (Forgive me being late to the post) however the only issue I have with them is increasing the range beyond bladde r range.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Grindintosecond
12/10/2018 at 13:40

Well My bladder range is usually further than most things anyway