"MM54" (mm54mk2)
11/16/2018 at 16:15 • Filed to: SUPRA
1
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"MM54" (mm54mk2)
11/16/2018 at 16:15 • Filed to: SUPRA | 1
| 39 |
Just something to think about. Look at the front end of Toyota’s current lineup. Take a look at the Camry (below) and the new Avalon (below-er). Now take a look at the camo’ed front end of the new supra (below-est). Lots of room for it to look like these two have been mashed together, or worse.
Hopefully not, but don’t be too surprised if it comes out looking like a bottom-feeding fish with a unibrow.
(Edit: Kinja keeps deleting my pictures, so if not all 3 appear try again, or just google it)
camarov6rs
> MM54
11/16/2018 at 16:32 |
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The bigger concern will be price. IMO they are spending too much time in development thus sinking too much money to recoup for the price not to be higher than everyone is hoping. However my perception of their development time might be skewed by how long they have been teasing this thing.
KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
> MM54
11/16/2018 at 16:33 |
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We have a pretty good idea of what it’s going to look like already. There are tons lf renders online
See and decide for yourselves. This firt picture is made out of actual parts diagrams so it should be prettty close.
Tapas
> camarov6rs
11/16/2018 at 16:46 |
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I just know it will start at ~$50k :/
marshknute
> MM54
11/16/2018 at 16:57 |
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I honestly can’t think of a current Toyota/Lexus design that I don’t like, so I’m ok with this.
Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
> Tapas
11/16/2018 at 17:05 |
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HAHAHA, oh ye of foolish optimism...
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Tapas
> Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
11/16/2018 at 17:34 |
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Optimism? I think $50k is HIGH.
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camarov6rs
> Tapas
11/16/2018 at 17:56 |
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I have 2 thoughts on price. 1: at 50 it’s not going to be better enough to justify vs the other vehicles in that range, 2: they should price it at the very tippy top of what the market will bear so that Toyota can get justification for keeping it going on fewer units while giving dealers less room to mark it up.
As an example of #2 if Toyota prices start at 70k then you’ll have quite a few less people than if the dealer threw 10k in markup on a 50k price.
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MM54
> camarov6rs
11/16/2018 at 17:59 |
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I can hear it now -
“We spent 6
years developing it (teasing it for 2 of them) and priced it so nobody could afford one, so nobody bought it, so there won’t be a 6th-gen”
arl
> MM54
11/16/2018 at 18:00 |
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Like the current NSX.
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MM54
> marshknute
11/16/2018 at 18:01 |
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Good! Really most of them aren’t that bad, it’s just the front end is a mess. The overall body of the corolla hatch is decently well done (and I do find the ct200h a nice looking car, shame about the whole its-a-prius thing)
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MM54
> KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
11/16/2018 at 18:03 |
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Does the leaked-assumed-official-and-final parts diagram include a model of that front bumper? The overall shape very well may be represented but (and the whole things is devil’s-advocate) there’s room there for unnecessary ‘features’ like on the camry.
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MM54
> arl
11/16/2018 at 18:04 |
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Pretty much. I think those are ugly too, but I am not their target audience and wouldn’t have bought one ($$$$)
even if it was the most beautiful car they’d ever made.
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camarov6rs
> MM54
11/16/2018 at 18:05 |
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Worst of it is when they say that half of the development costs are BMW’s responsiblity. For god sakes I believe the drivetrain is BMW and Toyota is basically providing bodywork and warranty coverage (not proportional I know).
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> marshknute
11/16/2018 at 18:09 |
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wow... different horses for different courses and all, but we must have completely different kinds of eyes...
I can’t think of a current Toyota/Lexus design that I can say that I REALLY want to look at.
LC coupe isn’t horrible, but there are oddities. the new Rav4 is a bit of an improvement over the outgoing overstyled blandness...
T his Supra is HIDEOUS, for a car that has no other reason to exist than to look as good or better than it performs and costs. It is looking like a 3 time loser, as it looks like a rasp to the eyes, it is rumored to cost north of $ 50-60K for a car that cannot be practical enough for most people’s mainstay daily driver, and too expensive for mainstream enthusiasts’ second car... and is rumored to have less power than most other cars at it’s price point, and no manual gearbox option.
Where is the win here?
T he Prius is also hideous , the Camry is ridiculous, the Avalon gaping maw is even worse... and I used to think the Nissan Maxima from a few years back looked like a catfish...
None of them strike me as a decent looking car. At least Ford Fusion and Mazda 6 are modest, and Chevy Malibu is acceptable. Accord and Subaru Legacy are bland as cold oatmeal.
None of them are Aston Martin, Jaguar, or Porsche gorgeous. None of them are McLaren kind of innovative ly and futuristically styled , but made out of affordable materials.
Just a different kind of ridiculous looking than Nissan’s ridiculousness, in an effort to not be as bland as Honda or Subaru.
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Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
> Tapas
11/16/2018 at 18:27 |
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BZZT!
https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-toyota-supra-wont-be-a-cheap-car-1825317746
They are deliberately pricing it WELL above the 86 to differentiate it, and expected to price it ABOVE the Avalon for differentiation reasons as well. Current most-credible rumors place the price at $60k+ which makes it highly competitive with BMW Z4, Porsche Boxster/Cayman, and Lexus RC F.
https://www.motor1.com/news/244209/toyota-supra-price-specs-rumors/
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Tapas
> camarov6rs
11/16/2018 at 18:37 |
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I don’t see th ings the same way.
If Ford can sell Mustang GTs starting from $36k, Toyota better deliver a knock out for around $50k.
Why price a car that high, just so dealers dont mark it up? That makes no sense to me.
Dealers can be really scummy and should be kept on a leash, especially with cars that make people excited about the brand and bring in loyal customers. Mark ups with the Hellcat hurt Chrysler sales enough for them to say - if you mark the cars up, you’ll lose future allocations.
I think this is how it should be for all cars, period.
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camarov6rs
> Tapas
11/16/2018 at 19:06 |
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My point with pricing it too high to compete at 50 is partially because you can get the Camaro and Mustang with track options that I’m sure will make them substantially faster. So the value proposition becomes this is a better overall car vs a better performing car which I think cuts into why you’d get a Supra, but I’m not exactly target market.
On my other point I agree that a manufacturer should be able to price a car according to the market and according to the projected revenue that having this in the showroom will bring. However I personally would rather pay 20k more than what it could be potentially priced at than give the dealer 10k in pure profit. I wish the franchise laws weren’t so dig in that a manufacturer couldn’t come and tell a dealer this is the price and you will sell it for that or (insert realistic penalty).
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Tapas
> Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
11/16/2018 at 19:27 |
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Yo ure right. All indications show the car will be expensive af.
I dont agree with the logic of pricing it that way solely to “ differentiate” it.
I get that the Su pras wll sell out, regardless of price. But I would prefer that Toyota sell a Halo car at $ 50k , $ 60k , $ 70k or whatever price for no other reason except that it’s THAT good.
The 2014 Corvette was a revelation but there was no unreasonable pr ice increase from Chevy. That’s how it should be.
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Tapas
> camarov6rs
11/16/2018 at 19:32 |
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I don’t think any of
these things in relation to pricing are right. But then again,
I am an idealist who had accepted disappointment lol.
I would still like the Supra should start around $50k. The options and packs and extra special bits can cost extra.
But I would really like a good base car that kicks ass, like the Miata does.
ranwhenparked
> MM54
11/16/2018 at 19:37 |
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Toyota products aren’t exactly ugly, per se, they’re just butter faced. If you can work out a way to own and drive one without ever having to look at it from the front, everything’s fine.
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MM54
> ranwhenparked
11/16/2018 at 19:46 |
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Agreed, it’s 99% the front end styling that I take issue with (though for the new supra I am not too excited about the renders I’ve seen of the rear, either)
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KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
> MM54
11/16/2018 at 20:38 |
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Source: https://jalopnik.com/2019-toyota-supra-pretty-much-the-whole-car-from-some-1829595430
Seems legit to me. Yes, the front bumper including.
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MM54
> KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
11/16/2018 at 20:49 |
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Hopefully so. We’ll find out for sure if they ever actually
unveil it (isn’t that supposed to be coming up?)
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camarov6rs
> Tapas
11/16/2018 at 22:20 |
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I agree 50 sounds like the right starting number to me. Although they’d have much more cred at 45 starting IMO
Jayoh
> MM54
11/17/2018 at 05:13 |
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I think I found a picture of the new supra
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Jayoh
> MM54
11/17/2018 at 05:14 |
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Alex
> MM54
11/17/2018 at 08:35 |
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All of y’all bitch and moan about the Camry’s so called “gaping maw” but the same exact people laud the front end on the new Accord. I know they look different, but they both have larger amounts of grille space, Accord more so than Camry. M aybe you all could stop bitching about the looks of the Camry and chalk it up to acquired taste ? Because there are some of us that believe that the Camry looks the best it has since the XV40 generation SE, as well as other Toyota products.
JasonH
> arl
11/17/2018 at 08:51 |
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Exactly, like that Super Bowl add teaser commercial with Jay Leno and Seinfeld . Oh, sweet that things coming out this year. 7-8 years (IIRC) later they release it.
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Trey
> marshknute
11/17/2018 at 09:16 |
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The LX460?
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MM54
> Alex
11/17/2018 at 10:49 |
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I wouldn’t say the Camry has a ‘gaping maw’ (the Avalon sure does). Different people have different tastes, if you like how they look, that is great! You don’t have to like the stuff I do, and I don’t have to like the stuff you do. Imagine how boring the world would be if everyone had the same tastes in this sort of thing.
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MM54
> Jayoh
11/17/2018 at 10:52 |
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Nah, it says right there it’s a Camry!
But really, that is interesting. Curious where that picture came from and how legitimate it is (and why google thinks its a Camry; though there is s
ome Camry in the way the headlights meander their way into the center... nose... thing).
Gettaweigh
> MM54
11/17/2018 at 12:13 |
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Actually Toyota has been punching above their weight in design lately. For the first time probably in it’s history, the Camry is a head Turner(especially the paint) . Not to mention just about if not all of them come with LED’S (which I absolutely shun Honda and other manufacturers for not doing this far in the tech age) so yeah, bring on the ugly.lol
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marshknute
> Trey
11/17/2018 at 12:51 |
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Admittedly, that one was alarming at first, but it’s REALLY grown on me since. I just had to get used to the huge grille.
Adeeb hamad
> MM54
11/17/2018 at 17:16 |
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Toyota and Honda both radically changed out their front ends and it makes them stand out from the crowd which I like. I like when automobile manufacturers try to defrenciate themselves and its something us as enthusiasts should encourage it, but man Toyotas front ends for the camry, corolla etc they don’t look that cool. Looks ricy. But the Lexus LC500 for example. Wow I’ve never seen a sexier car. I just hope this supra looks more like the LC500 than a Toyota camry.
Spanfeller is a twat
> MM54
11/17/2018 at 19:33 |
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Nah, it’s gonna be fineeeeeeeeeee
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babushkaXred
> MM54
11/17/2018 at 22:31 |
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At first, no one really liked the 93 Supra either. Just like that one, I believe history will write itself as this being another masterpiece of when Toyota engineering teams get a little freedom to go wild.
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MM54
> babushkaXred
11/17/2018 at 22:51 |
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I still think it’s bloated and unattractive :)
I’m all on-board hoping the new one is a great success and so on, but there’s as much of a chance that it isn’t.
Nauraushaun
> MM54
11/18/2018 at 02:09 |
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Mate have you seen the concept? It is ugly. It's hideous
Nitro Nate
> ranwhenparked
11/18/2018 at 11:59 |
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Hot take: Honda sues Toyota, as new Avalon uses up all the black plastic for Civic front ends.