Questions

"Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness" (long-voyager-2nd-edition) 11/12/2018 at 10:05 • Filed to: Questions

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Been thinking about lifting the van to complete the look. I have the rear figured out, I plan to add a leaf to up my spring rate and add 2" lift blocks. The front is where my issue comes in. I’m thinking on making strut spacers for the top of the strut to lift the nose, problem I’m seeing is the sway bar.

So the question is, How do I manage the sway bar?

Do I make blocks for the chassis part of the sway bar mount to drop it? Do I run without it?

Hoping someone has some insight on this.

Off-road 5th gen for your time:

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 10:08

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Being a Van your center of gravity should still be relatively low so I think running no sway bar should be fine, just don’t take and hard corners at speed 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 11/12/2018 at 10:14

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How bad would it really mess with the handling?

I mean I want it to stay safe as it is our main family hauler, but as long as it doesn’t make it handle dangerously, I wouldn’t mind deleting the sway bar.

Being a base model it had the tiny sway bar only in the front anyway, it’s not like the “sport” models that had a huge front bar and a rear bar as well. Even so, I’ve never noticed much handling difference between it and our old Sport Wagon that had the big sway bars...

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 10:18

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You’re going to want that sway bar, otherwise it is going to handle to like a 70's land yacht unless you really up the front spring rate.  

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/12/2018 at 10:19

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I mean, it’s a 90s minivan on oversize AT tires............70s land yacht isn’t too far off......

OPPOsaurus WRX > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 10:29

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you are lifting it which is already reducing handle abilities, which would make it unsafe. I like that you are concerned about the safety for your family, but by lifting it, are n’ t you already heading in the wrong direction? it sounds to me that you need to find a way to keep it, and maybe should u pgrade it to compensate for the lift .

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 10:30

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I’m sorry I don’t have the mill fully set up yet, or I’d offer to make the strut spacers for you. Here’s a question: can you get 1"+ of drop on the front subframe? The suspension geometry will be a lot better if you don’t try to take the whole 2"+ of lift on via the struts alone. Outside that, I suggest keeping the sway bar and using corrective blocks if you need them, but dropping the whole driveline will help maintain balance and correct function.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 10:31

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I know they aren’t comparable vehicles but my F150 is sans sway bars and I’ve never felt like it was going to roll and I’ve done some stupid stuff in it. It’s also been slightly lifted so a high COG than it would be stock. I would think the bigger concern up front would be the driveshaft angle, not sure how much angle you can add before causing issues. 

HoustonRunner > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 10:39

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What I love about Oppo is no one is asking “why would you do that”?

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 10:48

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True... As a test, disconnect an endlink and see how it feels. You can probably just turn the steering hardover in one direction and reach in and disconnect an endlink . The effect of no sway bar will of course be magnified once you’ve significantly raised the center of gravity by lifting it a few inches, but it should give you an idea.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > HoustonRunner 11/12/2018 at 10:57

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You have to really push the envelope for a “why” here. Lifted minivan? Nearly vanilla.

and 100 more > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 11:24

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You can get (or make) extended swaybar end links. They keep the swaybar in the proper geometry. If you ’re really fawncy, you can get ones with a quick-disconnect fitting.

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=25527

TheRealBicycleBuck > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 11:32

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You might be able to find some rather short adjustable end-link extenders. There are plenty of them out there for > 4" lifts.

JustAnotherG6 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 11:37

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I’d vote for just getting the next size tire and open up the wheel wells to accommodate for the size. But that’s me and I’ll do just about anything to avoid having running boards.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > JustAnotherG6 11/12/2018 at 12:10

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I’m already as big as I can go on tire size. Any larger and I won’t clear the struts.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/12/2018 at 12:11

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Not sure how that would work. In my case I have a solid sway bar, there are no end links. Bolted to the K-member, bolted to the control arm, just bushings in between.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > and 100 more 11/12/2018 at 12:12

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Not sure how that would work. In my case I have a solid sway bar, there are no end links. Bolted to the K-member, bolted to the control arm, just bushings in between.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/12/2018 at 12:13

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I would just have to drop the bar completely, I have no end links, it’s a solid bar.

That would be a simple test to try it though!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > HoustonRunner 11/12/2018 at 12:14

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I mean I’ve already built an off-road minivan, I think I’m beyond the “why” portion. ;)

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/12/2018 at 12:16

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I could possibly drop the K-member to compensate, which would like just involve making some spacers and using longer bolts. That would lift it (when used with strut spacers) while keeping the suspension geometry factory.

This is a great idea!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 12:33

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Be sure to use a large enough, flat enough spacer that the interaction between the k-frame and the body rails is in linear slip rather than risking potential twist on the bolts. You don’t want to shear the drivetrain off if you hit a curb...

You most likely still want to raise the suspension height below the k-frame for some of the lift, mostly because travel and between-wheel ground clearance are good things. For that, you may be in close enough reach you won’t have to monkey with the sway mounts. Just be aware that if you go from a neutral angle on the control arms to a slightly downward one, the onset of understeer slip will likely happen sooner on the inside wheel than stock and later on the outside wheel - meaning that you’ll hear squealing earlier and break loose potentially later, but more abruptly.

If you also don’t have enough adjustment in your control arms for alignment, you could end up with excess camber when tracking straight, which wouldn’t be good for tire wear. A way to fix that might be to configure some offset in the strut spacer. Maybe.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/12/2018 at 12:41

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Given my suspension design and how the parts mount to the cradle, I think I would be able to drop the cradle 1", while spacing the strut 1", which should keep everything lined up exactly like factory. My engine/trans are not actually attached to the cradle at all, so there is no direct force on it to cause issue.

Dropping everything together should forego any issues with alignment and angles, which would make life 100% easier.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 12:46

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My thing was that if you add 1" additional to the strut, you can have 2" total without messing with it *too* much. Might still be in reach of factory adjustment and would change dynamics only slightly, while making the k-member drop part of things relatively strong and being helpful for ground clearance.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/12/2018 at 12:52

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I hear ya. I think this is the best route. Thanks for the ideas!

TheRealBicycleBuck > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 12:52

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Is this the way yours is set up?

If so, maybe you can fabricate something like this:

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/12/2018 at 12:54

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Yep. Actually thinking now, thanks to RamblinRover, that dropping the whole K-member with the strut spacers would be the ideal way to get everything where it needs to be.

and 100 more > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 13:31

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Does the sway bar bolt to the underside of the control arms? That seems to be what I’m seeing...

M aybe lowering blocks for the body mounts then? I know that kills your clearance gains , tho...

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > and 100 more 11/12/2018 at 16:03

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Yes. The bar bolts to the underside of the control arms and the k-member.

Honestly I’m more doing it to complete the off-road look than anything. A couple more inches of clearance really won’t make or break me, when I get stuck it’s because I went somewhere 4x4 guys have gotten stuck...

and 100 more > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 16:08

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Bonus - you get to NOT replace axles due to running CVs at an angle!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > and 100 more 11/12/2018 at 16:19

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CVs would still be at an angle due to the driveline not being attached to the k-member.......

and 100 more > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 16:33

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You’d lower  the K-member but not the drivetrain? Is that because of the control arm attachment points being on the K-member?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > and 100 more 11/12/2018 at 16:37

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Control arms attach to the K-member. Drivetrain attaches to the body.

and 100 more > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 11/12/2018 at 16:44

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I see, no front-rear cradle.

I guess its a pretty common trick with old Subies, that you can drop the front subfr ame/drivetrain for a “body lift”, which then allows you to run larger tires, etc. and still keep your CV joints in alignment.