Those pesky 3rd party candidates... Politics...

"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland) 11/07/2018 at 13:22 • Filed to: Politiks

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Quite possible threw the election to Jon Tester. Breckenridge said earlier this week that he endorsed Rosendale, but that didn’t stop people from voting for him.

Buffer image: Jon Tester’s pickup with Tester and his wife Sharla working on farm equipment.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:39

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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 11/07/2018 at 13:40

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It has in the past prevented good democratic candidates from being elected like Al Gore.

Just Jeepin' > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:43

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Tangentially related, I recall screaming at my TV some years ago when some Republican party official who was grumbling about the Libertarian candidate said that “you can bet those voters wouldn’t have voted for the Democrat otherwise”.

Fuck you, random officious bullshit dude. I’m a registered Democrat and I periodically not only vote Libertarian but have run for office as one.

Some of us aren’t locked into your dumb-ass worldview.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:44

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welp... democracy means you get to vote for that stupid thrid party... consequences be damned...... over here its closer to 60 partys with about 8 big ones

(and thats why it took about 6 months to get a working government after the elections)

facw > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:44

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We desperately need ranked choice/instant runoff voting. Voters should be able to vote for their first choice without worrying that it will allow a completely undesirable candidate to take the win. Bonus points if we eliminate primaries, so general election voters don’t have to choose between two extremes.  

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Just Jeepin' 11/07/2018 at 13:45

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This country really needs a viable 3rd party, I don’t know if the Libertarian platform is the answer but something has to change.

Spanfeller is a twat > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:46

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Third parties should be banned from competing on federal races unless they have more than 20% of local or state elected positions.

Like, Here in Mexico, two minority* parties lost their right to registration because of course they did! they got 2% of the vote and they took away important resources for both independents and the bigger picture candidates.

*: by minority I mean that they never get more than 5% of the vote, not that they’re made up of ethnic minorities

Just Jeepin' > facw 11/07/2018 at 13:47

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Unfortunately the people who have to enable that are the same ones who benefit from the current system. People in power almost never vote themselves out of office.

punkgoose17 > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:48

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I voted for 2 Libertarians and 2 Democrats. Sometimes neither major party candidate is good enough to vote for.

Just Jeepin' > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:49

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I have some feeble hope that the GOP is headed for a permanent schism, but this election didn’t give me any reason to believe voters will help make that happen.

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:50

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This is why I’m very interested in Ranked Choice Voting - though that also comes with it’s own potential set of issues.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > punkgoose17 11/07/2018 at 13:52

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There are 3rd party candidates I vote for too, the issue we have is that everyone is voting in a lesser of 2 evils mindset, ie Hillary vs Trump (my god how did that happen?). If people actually voted for their preferred candidate we might actually be electing 3rd party politicians.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Spanfeller is a twat 11/07/2018 at 13:54

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O ur political system has a way of pushing the fringe politics into the mud and stomping on them...

Jay, the practical enthusiast > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:55

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As someone who regularly votes 3rd party, I don't get why Democrats think my vote would go to them instead. In my life I've voted for just as many Republicans as I have Democrats. 

Spanfeller is a twat > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 13:57

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Cus you need a big base of donations to work! but at the same time, if third parties focused on mayor races or local congress a lot more, they could rally up significant support for federal elections! I think that’s where the parties where misguided.

Look at NM, Johnson lost his bid for senate because he wasted political energy running for president. Had he run for congress in 2016 I guess he would’ve won. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Just Jeepin' 11/07/2018 at 13:58

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In this particular case the Libertarian candidate publicly endorsed the Republican candidate, then retracted his endorsement a few days later.

https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/2018/10/31/libertarian-withdraws-montana-senate-race/1833577002/

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Just Jeepin' 11/07/2018 at 14:00

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It’s not your fathers GOP that’s for damn sure.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Jay, the practical enthusiast 11/07/2018 at 14:02

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I’m socially liberal yet fiscally conservative (not current republican fiscal policy, but actual real conservative fiscal policy) and there really is no political party that covers that base. The libertarians running for office around here are bat shit crazy, not actual people you would want running the government.

WilliamsSW > Just Jeepin' 11/07/2018 at 14:03

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A lot of Americans - on *both* sides of the political spectrum - have at least some Libertarian views. I tend to lean Libertarian on many social issues - which makes me more liberal, not more conservative.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 14:17

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We need a party that is progressive with social/world issues but conservative with the checkbook. Libertarian options usually only fit into half of this.

Ash78, voting early and often > Jay, the practical enthusiast 11/07/2018 at 14:21

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My third-party votes (every single presidential election since the 90s, plus various local candidates) would have otherwise been Republican about 80% of the time. I think it all depends on your local flavor of Libertarians. Many of them could go either way, unlike say the Constitution Party (ultra-conservative) or the Green Party (ultra-liberal)

interstate366, now In The Industry > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 14:27

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I think the Libertarian party would benefit from honing its message a bit, more "if what you do doesn't hurt anyone why should I care" than the "let the free market dictate everything" message that seems to be prominent now.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 11/07/2018 at 14:41

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Yeah, I looked into the libertarian platform a while back thinking I liked what I heard. Upon further research I decided I did not agree on about 50% of their platform.

RallyWrench > WilliamsSW 11/07/2018 at 14:46

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I’ve been telling people this for years. I think if we’re all honest, most people are some brand of Libertarian. More personal freedoms and less Big Brother? Who doesn’t think that sounds great? Unfortunately I think the meaning of “Libertarian” has been sort of hijacked. 

WilliamsSW > RallyWrench 11/07/2018 at 14:56

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More personal freedoms and less Big Brother?

Taken at face value, I think a lot of people would agree with that.

But, in reality, I think an awful lot of people have a lot of restrictions on what “personal freedoms” should be allowed and what shouldn’t. As a result, a lot of people that I’ve met who claim to be “ Libertarian” aren’t really Libertarians at all.  They’re  hypocrites - because they have defined in their own mind what “freedoms” are acceptable, and it’s generally based on their own selfishness.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/07/2018 at 14:59

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Same here haha

RallyWrench > WilliamsSW 11/07/2018 at 15:26

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Exactly. On paper, in broad strokes, it sounds good. Like the old saying, “Communism works on paper”. But “L ibertarian” now seems more to mean far right conservative, or full on S overeign C itizen, Jefferson State level. Gary Johnson seemed cool enough as a person (defined as my willingness to drink a beer with somebody) , worthy of a vote , but he didn’t exactly seem to represent the self-identified Libertarians I’ve met, who (with one exception) really just seem like hardcore Republicans.

WilliamsSW > RallyWrench 11/07/2018 at 15:53

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Yeah - totally agree on all of that, including Gary Johnson.

100% of the self-identified Libertarians that I’ve met are super-religious and actually want to force everyone to adhere to their religion’s tenets.  Not a fan.  

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 11/07/2018 at 16:22

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Ooooo! New Mexico politics; talk dirty to me some more.

Gary didn’t even enter the race until August, and did so with basically no budget and no campaign infrastructure. Name recognition and fond memories of the 90's are what he was running on, and that was enough to poll in the 20's out of the gate with zero dollars spent.

I used to know him personally. That Senate seat wasn’t on his radar at all until recently, and this was very much a why not kind of thing. In Mark Rich, the state Republican party put up a candidate so weak and so unknown that even people like me who operate in and around the New Mexico political world all basically went “who?” and “why?” The greater public said the same thing. The only reason Rich polled out the single digits ever was the “R” next to his name.

This is also to say that the Republican bench in New Mexico is deeply depleted right now (although, there are some long-time Republican state legislators that will have a bunch of newfound free time on their hands come January after suburban Albuquerque went all but entirely Democrat yesterday). Susana Martinez’s scorched earth style of dictatorship leadership burned down a lot of people and poisoned a lot of wells. This is also to say that the Democratic party in the State has been transforming itself over the last 10 years from the Bill Richardson (but really this goes back 100 years) party of conservative social policies and deeply corrupt patronage politics centered around historic (and Hispanic) Northern NM into a progressive party becoming dominated by educated and urban/suburban (and a healthy dose of California transplanted) folks in Santa Fe, Albuquerque and Las Cruces .

Even though I voted for Gary, I’m not sure he’d really do well in the Senate. He was a good executive, but being a good Senator is different skill set that is heavily dependent on being able to play well with others in the chamber. Playing well with others was never his strong point. As Governor, he was famous for a record amount of vetos and being able to enrage both parties at the same time over the same thing.

This was, at best, a halfhearted attempt at running. He saw blood in the water with Rich doing so poorly. Had he wanted the seat (and been willing to reconcile with the state party), his best chance would’ve been throwing his hat in the ring for the primary in 2008 when Pete Domenici retired. Had he beat Heather Wilson (current Secretary of the Air Force, and beating her might have been possible despite Pete grooming her as his heir apparent because she struggled outside of northern/central NM) or Steve Pearce (whom he would’be beat handily) in the primary, then he would’ve had a chance. He probably could’ve beat then Albuquerque City Counselor Heinrich statewide. He had absolutely zero interest in the seat at that time. Challenging Jeff Bingaman and later Tom Udall would’ve been/still would be non-starters.

Could Gary Johnson still win statewide in NM? Maybe if he became a Democrat and found a policy platform what would woo Albuquerque and Las Cruces overwhelmingly. I think his time as “Governor No” may have permanently poisoned the well in Santa Fe for him.

Spanfeller is a twat > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/07/2018 at 17:27

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But lets be honest, he should’ve tried to gun a federal post right after being governor!

Independents in systems like the american suffer a lot. But if you do a lot of politics and like more “independent” candidates you should check out Pedro Kumamoto here in Mexico, he almost won the senate race in the last election cycle and he’s the first independent state legislator for Jalisco. He’s like 29 now, he’s one to keep an eye on!

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 11/07/2018 at 18:15

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I disagree. In terms of a federal post, he had nowhere to go when he left office in 2002. His national profile at the time was little more than a footnote for saying things about weed, and he was still a Republican. He would’ve been a good cabinet/under secretary for something in the post-midterm first W administration, but I don’t think there was any interest (from him or the Bush administration) in such a job. Even if he had been interested, his laissez-fair approach of small government and legalize weed wasn’t compatible with anything about the W administration post-9/11.

The only statewide federal office up for election in 2002 was the Senate seat held by Domenici, a fellow republican. Pete Domenici was untouchable in New Mexico politics after his first reelection in 1978. Trying to primary Pete would’ve been suicide by treason, and running against him as an independent would’ve been laughable. The Democratic party usually dominates NM politics, and even the Democrats never ran a serious candidate against Domenici after 1978.

The only other federal seat he could’ve run for was the 1st Congressional District House of Representative seat representing the Albuquerque area held by fellow Heather Wilson who running for her third term. Not only was Wilson a fellow Republican, she was part of Johnson’s administration as a cabinet secretary during his first term from 94-98. He was never going to run against her in either a primary or as an independent. Heather Wilson was at the height of her popularity and won that reelection easily.

Spanfeller is a twat > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/07/2018 at 19:33

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Well, I cannot argue about local politics.... what do you think wouldve been his best move?

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 11/07/2018 at 19:49

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I think he choose well in going into an advisory role for drug policy advocacy organizations. It gave him subject matter expertise for what made him notable nationally. I’d offer that he probably could’ve skipped climbing Mount Everest and gotten nationally active on the libertarian platform sooner.

For Sweden > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/08/2018 at 13:47

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Breckenridge said earlier this week that he endorsed Rosendale

Tricking early voters to own the conservatives

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > For Sweden 11/08/2018 at 13:49

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You should see photos of Breckenridge, 110% full send Libertarian.

For Sweden > Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) 11/08/2018 at 13:55

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Ranked Choice Voting is how you get Crash  as a Best Picture winner.

For Sweden > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/08/2018 at 13:57

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Looks like someone from Brec kenridge