More evidence towards the hypothesis that the sedan is alive and well... it's just called a pickup truck

"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr) 01/16/2018 at 13:16 • Filed to: Truck Yeah, pickup truck, Pickup Trucks, Trucks, Truck, Pickup, weight, efficiency, sedan

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2013 Ford F-150 King Ranch interior

Last week, I saw a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! over on Jalopnik that I think really captured the nature of the American automotive market.

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Note that the F-150, Silverado, and Ram are the three best-selling new vehicles in the US, and the crew cab 5.5-foot bed variants are everywhere as people’s daily drivers.

However, I saw an !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! discussing trends in fuel efficiency, power, weight, and footprint over time, and I noticed an interesting thing on the graph: the vehicle weight line.

Average vehicle weight has, since about 2004, held right around 1975 levels, after having declined sharply from 1976 to 1980, plateaued until 1987 (when CAFE was relaxed the first time), and then slowly rose to 2004's levels.

Is this a sort of natural equilibrium in what American consumers want - enough wanting heavy vehicles that the average weight will stick around 4000 lbs, and people will move to trucks to get their heavy vehicles if need be?

For Sweden > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:21

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The Sedan, Improved.

CobraJoe > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:22

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The average American really does want a large body on frame V8 powered car.

The Panther never should have died.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:24

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Yup they just replaced big boats from the 70s. and but with even more rear leg room and a lot more horse power

TheRealBicycleBuck > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:24

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A full size truck ticks all the right boxes - more interior room than most sedans, plenty of luxury items and gadgets to play with, a big “tru nk” out back, and the ability to tow large loads. A few of them even meet the desires of those seeking performance and they can do it off-road as well.

There are lots of reasons to own a big truck. If they just weren’t quite so big.... 

Wacko > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:26

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so we call them Bro sedans now and not Bro trucks.

Nothing > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:28

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Is my Taco a mid-size sedan? I’ve long thought the same thing, 4 doors and a lockable tonneau on the back, and it’s basically a sedan. At least I can convert the “trunk” to carry larger/taller items as well.

If I throw a cap on it, then it’s just another SUV.

Milky > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:35

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This is why CAFE is stupid.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:36

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Something I’ve been been saying for a while... the full-size ‘murican land yacht sedan never died. It just got 4x4 and a lift kit. Likewise for the wagon version.

Because there’s no better way to improve a do-it-all machine than enabling it to do even more stuff.

RT > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:36

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Shame about the centre of gravity though.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > CobraJoe 01/16/2018 at 13:37

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Plus, RWD and the iconic yuge trunk.

Show me the problem here.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Nothing 01/16/2018 at 13:39

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The Taco is what will replace the mid-size sedan in time. Trucks stepped into the gap as full-size sedans became less stylish and more dreary, same will happen to mid-size.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > RT 01/16/2018 at 13:40

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Considering the way those old boats drove I can promise you a modern truck would take them every day of the week.

bhtooefr > Milky 01/16/2018 at 13:40

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I don’t think CAFE is stupid, I think it just needs to be designed to handle the eventualities that manufacturers will abuse every rule possible to sell a “work” vehicle to a consumer who doesn’t need one.

The big thing is, as CAFE tightens down on light trucks, to make sure that people don’t move to 3/4 ton (Class 2b) heavy duty trucks in response.

CobraJoe > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/16/2018 at 13:42

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For me, ride height is an issue. I don’t like sitting up in the sky and my kids are still young enough that they’d need to climb a long ways.

But honestly, comparing them to sedans has made me more interested in a truck as a possible future vehicle.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:43

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Also, evidence that what people want over here is:

- RWD,

- V8,

- Big enough to do anything you might one day want to do,

- Relative simplicity.

And when the government tries to say “no this is what you really want” they say “fuck you, this commercial vehicle is closer to what I want than that”. And then the company producing the vehicle gets visions of dollar signs and dolls up the truck. Step 4 profit

BigBlock440 > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:46

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Manufacturers aren’t abusing CAFE, consumers are buying what they want and manufacturers are doing their best to build it while keeping CAFE compliance.

RT > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/16/2018 at 13:47

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Centre of gravity, not center of gravity.

I didn’t get those boats on my side of the pond.

I used to have these, it would be nice if we could get them back. : P

Milky > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:48

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Okay, stupid is too far. But it clearly has its problems, like this “light truck”:

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > CobraJoe 01/16/2018 at 13:49

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I’d suggest a RWD instead of a 4x4, but I don’t think that solves the problem anymore. So I’ll suggest a midsize truck instead.

Give you an interesting piece of information from my parents though. We had a full-size van, which wasn’t a problem to get into. Before that a wagon. Apparently as soon as they got the van trips got a lot quieter... instead of kids fighting there were kids looking out the window. A little extra visibility goes a long way.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > RT 01/16/2018 at 13:52

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It’s “re” in Canada too remember.

But because we’re discussing (North) American habits the ‘murcan land yacht is the beast in question. And CoG be damned I’m sure a modern truck will out handle them.

shop-teacher > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:53

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I responded to that exact comment with something I’ve been saying for nearly 12 years. My ‘06 crew cab Sierra is basically a huge sedan that seats 6, can tow 5700 pounds, and can haul a cubic yard and a half of ... whatever, or two motorcycles, or .... a lot. I never bother putting a tonnaeu cover over the bed until I had kids. Before that I just used the back seat for things that needed to stay dry.

I consider the crew cab short bed truck to be like a good multitool. It’s not the best at any one task, but it’s capable of doing so many things in one. They’re amazingly versatile. Couple that with incredible resale value, and they make a lot more sense than most “enthusiasts” give them credit for. I mean, my truck is 12 years old, has 128k miles on it, has a bit of rust popping on it, and I could still sell this thing for like 40% of what I paid for it brand new (which is crazy!).

Wobbles the Mind > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 13:57

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Hey, 4,000 lbs is the ideal GT/Executive weight! Anything between 3,500 lbs and 4,500 lbs ends up being a very well rounded, balanced daily driver for high speed stability and low speed maneuverability without compromising content and ride quality. That’s for all bodystyles. It’s the ideal feel weight.

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > RT 01/16/2018 at 13:57

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It’s funny when a stiff gale comes through and all of the people driving brand new trucks sway left and right with no help from their digital anti-sway assistants...

RT > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/16/2018 at 13:58

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Woops, my mistake.

Even then, ‘Muricans have had access to ‘not-yacht-like’ Accords and such for 40+ years though - right?

RT > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 01/16/2018 at 13:59

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I guess this means crew cabs are replacing lowriders too.

Nothing > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/16/2018 at 14:03

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One thing interesting to note, is the proliferation of luxury full sizers. There aren’t any luxury Colorados, Tacomas, Frontiers, etc (there’s probably a Denali Canyon). I’m curious if such an effort were made, if there would be any takers. Probably not, as those luxury touches would push them way too close in price point to an equivalent full size.

bhtooefr > RT 01/16/2018 at 14:05

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That’s not what they bought, though, until the mid 1970s.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > RT 01/16/2018 at 14:05

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And those vehicles still sell. The customers who liked them still buy them. Those who didn’t like them never switched when the old-school sedan they liked died, they just went for the closest thing they could find.

bhtooefr > Milky 01/16/2018 at 14:06

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That’s why I’ve suggested that light trucks should require CDLs, at least ones made after a certain date.

Want your vehicle to count towards the more relaxed light truck standards? Fine, but the buyers will need to hold a CDL to drive it. Otherwise, deal with the car standards.

bhtooefr > Nothing 01/16/2018 at 14:07

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Well, there is the Mercedes X-Class, which is an attempt to bring the American-style luxury full-size to the European midsize pickup class...

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Nothing 01/16/2018 at 14:11

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See also—Cadillac Brougham sedan?

There is a Denali Canyon, I doubt if we’ll ever see a “High Country” Colorado since they seem more interested in the ZR2 direction, Tacos are more geared to offroading than luxury and the Frontier would need to be newer than 15 years old to make the suggestion less than laughable.

I don’t think there’s much point. Other than someone like me who just likes the concept of the midsize, most people are going to look at that like the Cimmaron. “Cheap people’s” luxury. The thing you get when you can’t afford a “real” one. Not an image most people like.

Nothing > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/16/2018 at 14:14

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Yep, I originally had that in my post. The mid-sizers are the youth, X-Games, etc when it comes to marketing (just look back at the ads for the 3rd gen Tacoma launch). I don’t see a “1794" equivalent for the Tacoma coming. I guess now that you can get leather in the TRD models, there’s not much of a need for anything beyond that.

Milky > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 14:16

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Reminds me that I saw something like this the other week. I could be wrong, but I don’t think you need a CDL to drive a dually truck with a trailer full of 6 cars.

Dogapult > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 14:19

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Amusingly, Brazil has been at this for a while now.

I present: the Ford F1000 Tropical.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Nothing 01/16/2018 at 14:24

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In that case I have a midsize hatchback. If I supercharge it, I can then call it a hot hatch.

BigBlock440 > Milky 01/16/2018 at 14:27

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If it’s over 26,000 lbs GCVW, most states require a CDL, which 6 cars would be.

Land_Yacht_225 > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 14:32

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The Lincoln Blackwood started it, and we’ve been going downhill in 2WD ever since...

Milky > BigBlock440 01/16/2018 at 14:35

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Thats good to know.

RT > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 14:44

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The mid 70s were 40+ years ago though.

bhtooefr > RT 01/16/2018 at 15:01

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But people only got Accords because they were forced to, they really wanted land barges.

RT > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 16:02

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I mean, it’s not as if someone forced the population of America to buy Accords. They American public bought these cars on their own (ahem) accord.

I need to see data of some sort before I can jump to conclusions like this.

bhtooefr > RT 01/16/2018 at 16:09

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It’s more that the Americans were outright terrible at making cars that weren’t land barges, and even the American land barges weren’t well built, so when land barges became economically infeasible to operate due to the oil crisis, people panic-bought small cars, including imports like the Accord.

Then, gas got cheap, CAFE had basically eliminated the land barge car in the mean time, and the truck took its place.

You’ll notice that this happened in the 2004-2008 oil crisis too - gas got expensive, land barge trucks were suddenly too expensive to fuel, and people panic-bought Prii (although the dip in weight was slight from that...)

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > bhtooefr 01/16/2018 at 18:02

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thats a shitty take