Ford isn't that stupid, right? 

"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin) 01/03/2018 at 22:29 • Filed to: None

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Earlier I posted about how I doubt Ford would be crazy (stupid?) enough to axe the Fusion when it sells at least 250k a year since 2014 in the US alone.

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But apparently Ford doesn’t think that’s good enough so they’ve stopped working on the 4th generation according to sources.

So, has Ford completely lost it? Are the profit margins that small to justify not keeping up with a model that sells well worldwide?

I think they’re nuts...

MM54 > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/03/2018 at 22:48

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I think at least 50% of the new cars I see on the road here are Fusions. If they stop selling them I’m not sure what will take over, but it will probably be much worse.

CB > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/03/2018 at 22:48

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I don’t think it’s a crazy idea. Odds are decent that they’d try to find a way to push Fusion buyers into Escapes or Edges.

Unless they bring back an idea from the past...

extraspecialbitter > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/03/2018 at 22:49

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is it cannibalizing the taurus or something?

IdleInCA > extraspecialbitter 01/03/2018 at 22:58

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I have a feeling that sedan and hatchback sales have fallen off a cliff in the last year or two. ( In favour of SUVs and CUVs. ) Taurus will probably also go away.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/03/2018 at 23:11

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From the sounds of it they’re cancelling the redesign, not the car. So instead of a new platform we could see a revised (Even possibly a significant one) Fusion instead of something all new.

I think the Fiesta ( :( ) and the Taurus will get axed in the U.S. first.

Gerry197 > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/03/2018 at 23:13

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It’s dollars and sense, the sedan market profit margin isn’t as good as crossovers. They sell 250K of Fusions each year, but with lots of incentives, fleets and low margins. They don’t make a lot of money for Ford even at those volumes.

They rather have the production capacity for something that in’t from a dwindling auto segment along with better profit margins that crossovers bring. Lets see, sell more vehicles that people want & make more money on each unit, makes sense to me.

When crossovers are so popular and have similar mpg, it’s not a segment that is going away even if or when gas prices go up. As cars become more like appliances, the sporty nature of sedans become less popular, this isn’t just a short term trend folks.

dogisbadob > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/03/2018 at 23:17

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They should drop the Taurass instead. Fat bloated pig with no space inside.

It would be nice if they brought the Fusion wagon over here tho

E92M3 > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/03/2018 at 23:18

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They claim everyone wants crossovers, so they are focusing their efforts on those.

Seems like they’re giving up a lot of fleet sales if you ask me. Especially since the Malibu is being axed in 2 years also. Companies may switch to the Camry, since it’s American made. It’s actually more American than those two, but that’s another story. Toyota will gain even more marketshare now.

dogisbadob > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 01/03/2018 at 23:18

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Yup! Sad they killed the Fiesta here. The real reason it failed was because of the lame-ass DCT. They should just use a regular automatic instead. In fact, the Fiesta is available with a 4-speed auto in Europe.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > CB 01/03/2018 at 23:25

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I’m on board

404 - User No Longer Available > dogisbadob 01/03/2018 at 23:27

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I was always under the impression the Taurus is already dropped, they are just continuing the current Taurus for fleets, just to use up parts like how GM does with Impalas.

North America isn’t even getting the new one that’s on sale in China.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 01/03/2018 at 23:29

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The Fiesta and Taurus thing somewhat make sense. They sold significantly fewer of them combined than the Fusion.

OTOH, the new Fiesta and Taurus already exist in other markets. How many would they have to sell to break even on bringing them over? I think they couldfind at least 10,000 Taurus customers and 10,000 Fiesta customers in the US

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Gerry197 01/03/2018 at 23:34

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I can’t believe that Fusion buyers would go to an Escape or Edge. If the Fusion withers on the vine and becomes uncompetitive, Fusion owners will simply get someone else’s mid sized sedan.

Ford has to realize that at least 250k Fusion owners a year saw the Escape and Edge on the lots next to the Fusion and decided to buy a Fusion instead. That’s not chump change.

Dusty Ventures > E92M3 01/03/2018 at 23:37

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It’s not just fleet sales, the Fusion is Ford’s third best selling vehicle, behind the F-Series truck and the Escape. They sell more Fusions than Explorers. The Fusion is the 13th best selling vehicle in the country

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > extraspecialbitter 01/03/2018 at 23:37

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Well, the Taurus is essentially dead already. The new version is out and North America is not getting it.

I think 2018 is the last model year, it sells in comparatively small numbers to the Fusion.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > dogisbadob 01/03/2018 at 23:39

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I don’t think it was just that, small car sales are just poor in general. Everyone wants bigger CUV/SUV’s now. It was bound to happen unfortunately. The new Fiesta has so much of what I want too. Granted I am very happy with my ST, but the new one has pretty much everything I set out to buy in the first place.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/03/2018 at 23:42

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It seems like they could sell enough just enough to break even, but I’m sure the situation is more complicated than that. The market trending towards CUV/SUV’s and the downward slope of car sales in general are probably the nail in the coffin. They might be expecting to sell so little of those two in the future that it’s probably better to cut their losses now.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Dusty Ventures 01/03/2018 at 23:44

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Exactly! It’s insane to think that they aren’t going to put any money in their 3rd best selling vehicle.

The only thing that I can see that they may be scrapping the 4th gen chassis to start from scratch on a more advanced (ie, electric or hybrid) chassis

Gerry197 > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/03/2018 at 23:44

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250K buyers sounds like a lot, but that puts the Fusion in 13th best selling vehicle by volume in 2017. That included high incentive deals and fleets to get that many sold.

They rather have that volume go to something with more profit margin. They are wasting production, resources and dealership space for a low margin vehicle that really isn’t paying for itself.

Now Ford is stuck with a ton of lease returns on sedans no one wants. Even premium sedans like BMW, Mercedes & Audi are getting stuck with lease returns they can’t sell because all their buyers want crossovers. There was an article about it here recently covering that story.

You want a cheap 2-3 year old sedan or premium sedan, now is a perfect time to get one. Buddy got a BMW F30 on CPO for $17,000, barely 2 years old. A few years ago, a similar lease return would be $23,000 or more. Just check out Autorader on sedans right now, it’s a amazing time, unless you want a manual one.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/04/2018 at 00:08

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I mean, the car industry back in the 1990’s almost killed off cars entirely in favor of SUVs. Had it not been for gas prices skyrocketing post 2001 i wouldn’t be surprised if we were there now. Honestly, let them shoot themselves in the foot. When gas prices jump again they’ll be caught with their pants down.

People are too stupid for their own good.

Shift24 > Dusty Ventures 01/04/2018 at 00:30

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But youre using old data. As of November 2017 sales are down 22% vs last year. It’s now 4th with the Explorer up 7%. All of the top selling cars are down except the civic. That includes the redesigned camry. Plus it’s not all about sales. SUVs have higher profit margins, just look at the well know margins on GMs large 3.

Shift24 > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/04/2018 at 00:33

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Dusty is using old data, as of November 2017 sales are down 22% . Moving it below the explorer. And as I said only the civic sales are up of the main cars

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > dogisbadob 01/04/2018 at 01:50

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In 2006, the Fake Taurus(tm) (also known as the Five Hundred) has incredible amounts of interior space. You can fit four 6' tall people comfortably in that thing.

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > CB 01/04/2018 at 01:51

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Hey look, it’s the sedan version of my car, just slightly newer.

I’ve only ever seen one SUS, and it was in a junkyard. (for reference, the SUS is the first generation Outback sedan.)

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 01/04/2018 at 01:52

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The question is - at what point will we hit peak crossover? And what then? Will people get bored of crossovers simply because there’s so many of them?

SmugAardvark > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/04/2018 at 02:33

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If Ford was awesome, they would give us a Fusion RS as a sort of last hurrah. 6MT, turbocharge their 3.5L V6 to the tune of 400whp, AWD, stiffer suspension, tighter steering, and so on.

Of course, we all know they won’t do that. They would sell maybe 8 of them. But wouldn’t it be fantastic?

RT > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/04/2018 at 05:06

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As many have said already, it’s down to market segments and profit margins. :/

Also factor in that the Fusion isn’t very successful outside the US. Data shows hardly anyone in Europe wants a non-luxury mid-sized car these days - so it’s part of a dying market segment. Evidently, most are sold as fleet vehicles.

Ford are probably still a bit crazy, but it’s a sign of the times.

jimz > dogisbadob 01/04/2018 at 06:38

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Yup! Sad they killed the Fiesta here. The real reason it failed was because

the only people who buy small cars right now are cheapskates, and the thing loses money. a handful of Fiesta ST sales doesn’t make up for that.

jimz > E92M3 01/04/2018 at 06:41

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“Fleet sales” aren’t just to car rental companies, you know. they’re to anyone who buys vehicles in bulk. People natter on about how high Ford and GM’s “fleet” sales are compared to e.g. Honda w/o realizing that most of their fleet sales are vans, chassis-cabs/cutaways, and medium duty trucks, none of which are products Honda sells.

duurtlang > RT 01/04/2018 at 09:30

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A minor additional cause is that the current generation isn’t said to be as good as the previous (European Mondeo) one, which has caused a further drop in sales.

BahamaTodd > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/04/2018 at 10:05

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They only sold 209k Fusions last year. Down 21% from 2016.

Milky > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 01/04/2018 at 10:36

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I brought this up to my roommates before, they are designers at Ford. Their argument was the penalty for an escape compared to a focus really isn’t that bad.

Thats probably partially true, but I bet people will still freak when it goes over $4 again.

dogisbadob > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 01/04/2018 at 11:23

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The Fit, Yaris, and Sonic are doing fine with no problems. But then again, they have real transmissions, not jerky-ass DCT’s that are awful in regular driving when being used as a regular automatic in D. And worse, the Fiesta has no paddles, which are mandatory to get the most out of the DCT.

Notice how their crossovers don’t use the PowerShit? The Ecosport and Escape don’t have that shit. Because they KNOW it’s stupid and drives like SHIT! Over a dozen recalls later, they STILL can’t get it right! It would’ve been cheaper to just swap in the 4-speed auto (or possibly the Focus’s 6-speed auto, which was only available on on version of it)

dogisbadob > 404 - User No Longer Available 01/04/2018 at 11:24

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You’re probably right

dogisbadob > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 01/04/2018 at 11:25

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oh wow! So in other words, the new one is bigger on the outside *and* smaller on the inside? Damn that sucks!

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > SmugAardvark 01/04/2018 at 21:09

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I’d be happy with a true ST model with the Focus RS drive train but yeah, Ford will never do it lol