MTB Oppos!

"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja) 08/17/2017 at 11:08 • Filed to: MTB, HELP

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Picture of my bike for your time. Musings and questions below.

I went out to the trails last night for the first time in a month. Other than the fact that I’ve seriously fallen out of shape in the last 2 months, I’ve realized my bike needs some more upgrades. I’m not interested in buying a new bike at this moment because my wife needs a new bike more than I do (she has 26" wheels and v-brakes...), so we need to save for that (we’ll probably buy her new bike with her tax refund) and also save in general since we’ve had some large expenses over the last couple months.

My buddy recently got a Santa Cruz Chameleon R 27.5+. Pictured below.

I got to ride it a little last night and I was seriously blown away with how agile and tossable it was. I also got to feel what real brakes feel like. I want to replicate this on my bike, as I feel out of control on steep fast descents and I don’t have the turning ability I’d like on fast corners.

I’ve already decided on a longer bar, Mine is 650mm with a 15mm rise and I’m probably gonna go 760mm to match the Chameleon. I’m not sure if I should increase rise or keep the same. If anyone has some suggestions on some budget oriented handlebars I’m all ears.

I need new pedals, but I don’t feel like going clipless is gonna be worth the cost and adjustment unless I’m convinced otherwise. So I’ll probably get race face composite pedals.

I discovered my brakes were leaking a little last night, but honestly my brakes have the stopping power of cheese. I’d like to make this better, but I have feeling a full brake upgrade isn’t gonna be worth the money, so if anyone has any suggestions there I’m open.

I’ve considered new wider tires, specifically !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . But I’m scared of getting the wrong thing and MTB tires are expensive. I don’t need anything super aggressive, as I ride mostly technical dirt with a lot of up and down.

For some additional information I’m 6'0" and 215lbs of squish. I typically have a inseam of 30-32". !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! The bike is a medium. I have upgraded the Suntour XCT Coil fork to the Suntour Radion Air fork (which I need to figure out how to adjust since I use like half the travel on average.)

Thanks for reading if you’ve made it this far, any advice is appreciated.

TL;DR: I’m a cheap bastard when I shouldn’t be, and now I’m suffering the consequences. Please help.

Bonus Savage Rivale “Roadyacht” GTS

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 11:21

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Handlebars: go to your local shop and see if they have any take-offs. I have been able to get aluminum bars from my LBS for $30 that sell new for $75.

Pedals: For flats folks are liking the Raceface Chesters. For clip-in I’d go with Shimano XT Trail ($60 @Jenson USA), but then you need to buy shoes, another $100...

Tires: Maxxix Minion. End of story, I also like specialized purgtory/butcher/shaughter but you are not going to find those on sale.

Brakes: if they are beyond servicing then buy some Shimano SLX on the internet, should be in the $60-80 for each end.

Option 2: buy the same bike your buddy has. They have them at colorado cyclist for about $1600 with a base build kit.

My $0.02: get wider bars and new pedals. Have your LBS fix your brakes. Ride till your tires are worn out, then replace.

OPPOsaurus WRX > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 11:30

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by the time you get all that shit, you could have just gotten a new bike. Get a new bike and sell the old bike on CL or fix the brakes and give it to wifey

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/17/2017 at 11:31

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Wow thanks! Seriously!

Yeah I’m planning on chesters.

Minion DHR or DHF? I’ve heard minions have dead zones between the tread and that pushed me away.

Yeah I think they’re beyond servicing. I might buy new pads and see if that helps, but they’re been labored over by two different shops with only minimal gains.

on option 2: apparently Santa Cruz did a dealer restructure recently so pretty much only Sun & Ski Sports and 2 local shops around here sell them and they’re never available. My buddy only got his through pure luck. He spent $1800 before tax and that was after a $400 discount that we’re pretty sure was a computer error.

Also, this may sound like a dumb question but when can you tell if a MTB tire is worn out?

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > OPPOsaurus WRX 08/17/2017 at 11:39

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Yeah I did the math on this and it doesn’t work for me currently.

I could sell the bike for $300-$400 optimistically, but the new bike would be $1200 to $1800 before tax. So I’m still $800 out of pocket vs. the $200 for a new bar, pedals, brake pads, and tune up.

And my wife wouldn’t fit on this bike. She is a very petite 5'0". Lol

trust me I’d love to not sink money into what fundamentally cannot be fixed, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/17/2017 at 11:41

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Also, if I buy the SLX brakes, should I buy the rotors with it?

benjrblant > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 11:43

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I’ll blatantly rip off Highlander’s reply format but replace it with my own advice, because.

Bars : Personally, I prefer narrower bars on my Niner. I trimmed them way down to fit through some twisty and tehcnical trails, haven’t wanted to go back.

Pedals : Clipless pedals are a game changer. I don’t ride anything but. It will take some getting used to but the ROI is absolutely there. Think of clipless pedals as allowing you to change your pedeal stroke from down-down-down to a full 360* power stroke by pulling and pushing. Shimano SPD is the way to go, IMO. Lots of pricepoint options

Brakes : The best way to increase stopping power is to get some new organic pads and a larger front rotor. 180mm should be a noticable improvement, I wouldn’t recommend 203mm unless you’re doing lots of mountain/downhill riding. Personal preference and recommendation is Avid BB7 if you want mechanical or Shimano if you want hydraulic.

Tires : Measure your fork and chainstay width where your current tire is. Allow some room for margin of error, wheels being out of true, etc etc. Maxxis, Continental, Schwalbe, and several others all make great tires. It should be tailored to the type of terrain you’re riding.

Fork : If you’ve got an air fork, you’ll need a shock pump. A tire pump will not suffice. A good shock pump should run you $40 or so. The manual for your fork should have information on what PSI to set(usually based on rider weight), otherwise talk to your local shop. This should be checked somewhat frequently as it has a big impact on how the fork handles and functions.

Most importantly : Stop for a minute. Step back, take a look at things. Add up these parts and accessories and price a new bike that’s comparable. Is it worth modifying your existing bike or should you duke it out and put that money towards a built bike that’s ready to roll? Parts are significantly more expensive when purchased individually and MFGRs get them for a fraction of the cost so it could very well be more cost effective to flip your bike and buy a new one. If you love the frame and picture keeping it for many years, buy the parts. If you’re eyeing something else on the market, reconsider.

Cash Rewards > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 11:53

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Yeah, different sized handle bars can change how the bike feels, as it may require more or less hand movement to turn the wheel, similar to changing stem size. Also, a good bike shop could do a fitting for you and recommend some changes.

OPPOsaurus WRX > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 11:54

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ahhh I thought u were talking about a new fork, and I was thinking those are like $500 easy, but you were just talking about the bar setup, I was thinking 15mm travel fork , not bar rise.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 11:58

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If your existing brakes are shimano I would use the old rotors. They look like shimano to me.

Mattbob > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 12:02

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Advice #1 WATCH FOR SALES! MTB stuff goes on crazy sales throughout the year. This year alone, I got a set of Niner carbon 710mm bars for $40, and Schwalbe hans dampf tires for $8 each.

advice 2: as far as brakes go, just save yourself headaches and if you upgrade go with shimano Deore, or SLX if it’s in the budget.

Advice #3: Go tubeless. It may seem like a hassle, but it will make your bike feel a lot better.

Advice #4: Buy used when you can! Join a local facebook bike exchange group. I’m in michigan, and I have gotten some crazy deals on stuff from people who were just getting rid of stuff or upgrading. Craigslist is garbage for bikes in my experience.

#5: to adjust your fork, just buy a shock pump and set the sag. Also make sure you do your yearly maintenance on that air fork. I just had a fork die on me yesterday on my training bike probably due to a lack of care. Now I have to rebuild it... or go full rigid/SS

#6 for more advice look up the GMBN channel on youtube.

#7 something I did when I got into riding a bit more. I go tired of the front derailleur and went to a 1x10 setup. Its cheap, you save weight, and it just simplifies things.

Keep the MTB posts coming!

Mattbob > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 12:05

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don’t worry about the rotors unless you want to upgrade the size.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > benjrblant 08/17/2017 at 12:17

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Thanks for the detailed response!

I know what you mean with the bars, as I already feel like mine are too wide to get through some places sometimes. However, I have never felt agile on my bike, or totally in control of where its pointed. The lighter air fork helped, but I feel the bars are the easiest way to get it where I want it to be. The reality I may have to face is that the shorter wheelbase and frame of my bike may be a little too small, which means nothing will improve that. However I don’t have a great knowledge of all things mountain bike, so I could be barking up the wrong tree.

I keep hearing great things about clipless, but I still have my doubts whether it will personally be worth it for my kind of riding.

I’m gonna do pads, and see what my shop says about putting bigger rotors on.

A 2.3 wide tire will probably fit just fine, I have room, however its hard to nail down exactly what kind of tire to get because everyone on mtb forums have their own opinions, and most seem to take their riding wayyyy more seriously than I do and I feel like a lot of suggested tires would be overkill for the trails I ride on (technical and flowy ups and downs, maybe a few hundred feet total elevation change, all dirt and roots). I liked the forekaster because it seemed like a cheaper specialized purgatory.

And as I said to Opposaurus; I’m not gonna make the same mistake again and go cheap on the bike, however, that means I’m going to spend a fair amount when I do buy. Selling my bike will not cover the necessary costs. I will be at least $800 out of pocket on a new bike vs $200 now. And regardless, my wife deserves a new bike way more than I do. Shes been a real trooper trying yo keep up with everyone on a very subpar bike. I can suffer my bikes faults for another 1.5 - 2 years. I keep up with my group pretty well, I just have some things I need to fix. And maybe I just need to work on my own confidence as well.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > OPPOsaurus WRX 08/17/2017 at 12:20

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I spent $200 on my radion after the suntour upgrade discount, and another $100 at the shop for install and tune up. It made a big difference I just think I have it set too stiff.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/17/2017 at 12:20

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They’re tektro which I think is their bargain brand?

benjrblant > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 12:25

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Tires (for pretty much anything that needs tires) are one of my least favorite things to discuss and advise people on. There’s no real quantifiable metric for how “good” a tire is and the variables are limitless. On top of that, everyone has a preference and opinion with little more than some anecdotes to back it up. I’d argue that running correct tire pressure is far more important than which tire but that’s just me. I always air up to 45 or 50psi and then air down the tire based on trail conditions when I arrive.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 12:26

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Yes, very bargain bin, probably the cheapest hydro brakes out there. You would be better off with mechanical avids (bb7's).

Mattbob > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 12:27

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Just found these http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10053_10052_533296_-1___204718

Can’t really go wrong with nashbar.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Mattbob 08/17/2017 at 12:30

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What are your recommended bike part vendors? I mainly hang out on Jenson USA.

Full brake upgrade may be out of budget, I’ll try some organic pads and hope for the best.

Will going tubeless require new wheels? Are there any guides you’d personally recommend for converting my wheels to tubeless?

I agree craigslist is garbage, but I avoid facebook (and pretty much all social media) at all costs. I know I may be missing out on some stuff, but general socail media is just really disappointing.

I don’t know if you have any experience on Suntour air forks, but its my understanding that they’re sealed units and if something goes wrong you just replace the whole cartridge.

I was actually thinking about swapping the front to a 1by. I don’t know if I want to change the cassette just yet since I just replaced it a few months ago. So I’d be 1x8 and that probably wouldn’t work.

I think if I can improve braking and handling and get my fork adjusted I’d be 80% to where I want to be, but I probably also need to work on my personal confidence on the trails. I’m a scaredy cat.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > benjrblant 08/17/2017 at 12:32

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wow...thats a lot of pressure. I had mine up to 40 abouta month ago and my back tire slipped out from under me while on a tight corner after a downhill bit. The adrenaline rush wasn’t fun. I try to stick between 30 and 35 psi.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/17/2017 at 12:33

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I’m not surprised at all. I probably just need to drop the cash and do a full upgrade to 180mm rotors and those SLXs you told me about.

benjrblant > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 12:34

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I’m running 29x2.4" tires, it’s just easier to air them town to 20 or 30 than it is to bust out the little frame pump and try to add 5 or 10psi.

45 or so for pavement, much less for terrain and even a little less for loose surfaces.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Mattbob 08/17/2017 at 12:34

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Is 31.8mm tube standard?

Mattbob > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 12:43

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yeah, 31.8 is the standard for MTB handlebars for the last few years. If they get fatter in the middle, they are most likely 31.8.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/17/2017 at 12:47

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ALso, is there a big difference between getting Shimano SLX SPD and Shimano XT SPD?

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 12:51

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At your size I’d go with the XT’s. The SLX pedals have plastic bearing/axle interface. You are likely to kill them after 5-10 rides. XT pedals are all steel and are indestructible.

Mattbob > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 12:56

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I like Jenson usa, Nashbar, and chainreaction if shipping time isn’t an issue (they are in the UK). Amazon is okay for some things, but they aren’t great for bike stuff overall.

Tubeless can be done on most wheels. It is just easier and more successful on some. What wheels do you have? Tubeless ready wheels will have a more defined center channel down the middle and a little beadlock ridge on the side of that, that helps with setup and bead retention. Here is a tutorial. I just use gorilla tape for rim tape on my tubeless setup.

If it is an air fork, it should have a schrader valve underneath a top cap on the top of the fork. The damping side might be a sealed unit, but the air spring needs to have a valve to adjust air pressure for the rider weight. It is probably on the left when you are sitting on the bike. Here is a tutorial on how to set sag

As far as 1x, anything is possible, but if you are new, I would wait a bit before going 1x8. You would probably lose more range than you want at this point.

With the brake pads, bars, and dialing in your fork, you should be a lot more comfortable on the bike. I would start with those, then go tubeless if you are getting punctures or the bike feels sluggish.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 14:10

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Here is a photo of my bike. Thought you would like it. It’s a carbon Specialized Fuse (expert carbon). The only thing I’ve changed is added carbon handle bars.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/17/2017 at 14:15

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I’m guessing those are 27.5 wheels with not-quite plus tires? I’m thinking they might be plus tires but something looks off lol

I do like it! Sweet bike man. Carbon frames are nuts. A guy I ride with occasionally has a Pivot Mach 429 carbon and even though its an extra large frame, its scary light.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 14:17

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Those are true plus tires, 27.5x3". They may look small as the bike is an extra large. My bike is one of the cheaper bikes in the group of people who I ride with, and the ONLY hard tail.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/17/2017 at 14:32

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Ah, thats what it was. I respect you staying hardtail, I plan on staying hardtail as well. A lot of guys around here run full suspension as well. Another guy in my group upgraded to a specialized camber at the beginning of the year. But I find full suspension kind of overkill for our trails. It has its benefits, but fast technical stuff is the majority of our riding here.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 08/17/2017 at 14:59

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TL;DR - Fix your brakes, adjust tire pressures, properly set up your fork, then consider a new front tire, then consider new handlebars.

I feel out of control on steep fast descents and I don’t have the turning ability I’d like on fast corners.

Brakes and tires are where you should concentrate. If your brakes are leaking they definitely need to get serviced. Get the leaks fixed and get them flushed and bled. Probably get new pads at that time and then bed them in properly. Alternatively if there is a lot of life left in the pads they may be glazed and you could possibly bring them back by sanding the pads lightly and cleaning your rotors.

As far as feeling out of control on the fast corners, are you losing one end of the bike before the other? It may simply be a weight distribution problem caused by you being in a passive position on the bike instead of getting up on it.

You may also want to put a more aggressive tire on the front end if you keep losing the front on turns. I got a new bike last summer and the front end felt really sketchy and I took a couple of bad crashes because I lost the front. This spring I put a TRS Plus on the front and it made a world of difference. I’ve got a lot more confidence going into sketchy turns, and haven’t lost the front yet.

The other thing to consider would be going tubeless with your tires. You can run a lot lower pressures and get a lot more grip without risking pinch flats. It is amazing the traction that you can gain by dropping your pressures.

It also sounds like you need to dig into getting your fork set up properly. Check for a set up sheet from the fork manufacturer. They should have some baseline settings for getting you close with an initial set up and then there should only be slight adjustments once you ride it. It sounds like it is set up way too stiff, but then if you are riding mostly smooth trails you won’t necessarily go through too much travel.

You may have noticed I didn’t mention handlebars. That is because I would try fixing the brakes, getting your fork set up properly, checking tire pressures and maybe getting a new front tire before going to new handlebars. The other option to consider before springing for new handlebars would be going to a different stem. A shorter stem should help out with control issues and you should be able to come up with a reasonably priced take-off at your LBS.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 08/17/2017 at 15:17

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I feel understeery and unstable up front. Like I can’t bring the bike under control. It just feels “scary” and not at all confidence inspiring, even at slower speeds. And my stem is practically nonexistent. When I tried my buddy’s wider bars the control felt amazing, so I just figured that was the solution.

I’m definitely going to do pads, but I’ve accepted my brakes suck. I should probably just replace the whole system as each time I get my brakes serviced very little improvement is made, but I really don’t want to spend $200 on just the brakes. I may have no choice though.

My trails have fast flowy and technical smooth sections, and tight technical root filled climbs and descents. I probably won’t use most of my travel, you’re right, however, I cant even push it down more than half way, even if I bounce most of my weight on the front wheel. It could definitely feel more plush.

I think I’m just dealing with a flawed platform and I’m just band-aiding the bigger problems right now. I’ll just look forward to having a nicer bike in the future.

I’m gonna take your advice though. I really appreciate it.