What were you thinking Subaru?

"Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ" (doge-supreme)
08/09/2017 at 21:40 • Filed to: None

So Carr Subaru in Beaverton OR gave me a loner while my BRZ is in the shop, it’s the top spec Forester 2.5xt touring (I’ll do a write-up later) which comes with a cvt. If a cvt doesn’t need to shift gears and can hold a constant rpm why did Subaru feel the need to program in shift points?

DISCUSSION (27)

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
08/09/2017 at 21:45

It makes it seem more familiar. Give your average person a CVT which just holds power numbers all day and they would likely feel like it was broken in some way.

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
08/09/2017 at 21:46

Nailed it, I people would be like hey this is different and I don’t like it.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
08/09/2017 at 21:50

That’s my observation too, the early Ford Escape hybrid had a cvt and it held the revs constant under acceleration. when I last drove a forester, last fall it was actually feeling like it had shift points even though knew it was a cvt.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Phyrxes once again has a wagon!
08/09/2017 at 21:51

The way Subaru does it is it will feel like it is upshifting once or twice when you are accelerating but the rest of the time it just softly adjusts to whatever ratio it needs. Manual mode is really weird because it takes some time to adjust when you hit the paddle but you never lose power to the wheels while it is adjusting.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
08/09/2017 at 21:51

Dunno, but the 2.5 Legacy is shockingly quick regardless.

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
08/09/2017 at 21:54

Yeah, I test drove one of the new Foresters last year and between the CVT and the plastic interior I bought a Mazda.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Phyrxes once again has a wagon!
08/09/2017 at 21:55

My mom got a 2017 Outback last fall and I actually really like it. I wouldn’t buy one as my daily driver but its a great family car.

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
08/09/2017 at 21:57

My parents used to have an old Saturn with the CVT and it was really odd to drive it as it had no shift point shenanigans.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
08/09/2017 at 21:59

Subaru isn’t the only one guilty of this. It’s just because CVTs are different than the transmissions we’ve been using for the last 100 years.

wafflesnfalafel > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
08/09/2017 at 21:59

Forester XT!

His Stigness > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
08/09/2017 at 22:01

I don’t think people pay that much attention. I’ve never heard any complaints from Nissan owners other than droning complaints. Oh wait, that’s from journalists.

I’ve never heard CVT owners complaining about it or thinking it was broken.

bhtooefr > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
08/09/2017 at 22:02

This is what I like to call bullshift. It’s a transmission capable of continuously variable action making things objectively worse, to make them feel subjectively better.

Of course, you could do the hilarious thing that Lexus did on the RWD 300h cars (which the US didn’t get), “Active Sound Control”:

It implements the fake gears through fake engine noise , not through actually simulating fake gears. Oh, and the car has flappy paddles too. They actually do something on deceleration - changing the regenerative/engine braking level, IIRC - but when accelerating, they merely change the fake engine noise.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
08/09/2017 at 22:04

It’s also mighty handy when towing or descending. When towing, forcing it to select a “gear” helps when you are expecting to either accelerate or decelerate. When descending a hill, selecting a specific “gear” forces it to use the engine for braking. We’ve had our Outback for just a few months and I’ve encountered both of these situations.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > His Stigness
08/09/2017 at 22:12

I think the Subaru’s issue is the the FB25 motor is kind of obnoxious above 3,500 RPM. The Nissan 2.5 just kinda fades into the background at all RPM. When my CVT Outback holds high revs for more than a couple seconds - passing on the highway is about the only time it happens - it sounds like it’s about to explode. They had a choice of adding more sound/vibration deadening and tuning the intake/exhaust vs. fiddling with the computer to make it so most people never actually sit at high RPM and chose the latter.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
08/09/2017 at 22:13

It’s quick to about 45 MPH then falls flat. Once you drive the 3.6 you realize how pokey the 2.5 is. I wish I had never driven the 3.6, because now I keep thinking about trading in the 2.5 whenever I’m in it for more than an hour.

His Stigness > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/09/2017 at 22:15

Fair point. But the point of a CVT is to be more efficient or to keep the engine more efficient, so they should have added a little more sound deadening.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > His Stigness
08/09/2017 at 22:32

They should have. At the same time, though, it is kind of amazingly efficient. My wife averages around 27 MPG in her CVT Outback vs. my 25.5 MPG in a 6MT Forester that weighs 250 lb. less. So while they might not have eeked out every last bit of efficiency, it’s still a pretty efficient vehicle.

Dusty Ventures > wafflesnfalafel
08/09/2017 at 22:34

If you have to get a loaner that’s a good one to get!

His Stigness > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/09/2017 at 22:55

Ah but the question is are your driving habits the same?

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > His Stigness
08/09/2017 at 23:04

I think the 6MT encourages poor decisions. The few times I’ve driven the Outback through more than half a tank I’ve done about the same as her. I wring out the Foz here and there, but even when I don’t I’ve never managed to get match the Outback. I actually don’t think I can possibly be hammering it too bad, though, because my Mom can’t top 23 in her 2014 Impreza 2.0i CVT. She complains all the time about the mileage and gets mad when I point out that if both of my Subarus of similar age are doing way better, the problem likely lays with the driver.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
08/09/2017 at 23:05

I’unno, it’s probably better to have that than the endless droning of the engine at same RPM.

His Stigness > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/09/2017 at 23:10

In the case of my Mercedes, I’ve found automatics encourage worse decisions because I have to constantly floor it to get it to kick down. Whereas in my Golf I pretty much never actually floor it, I always modulate and ride the torque through careful mapping.

What the hell kind of driving is your mom doing if she can’t beat either the Outback’s or Forester’s mileage when she drives a sedan?

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > His Stigness
08/09/2017 at 23:39

My mom is the most maniacal driver. It’s like road rage the instant she gets behind the wheel. She’s 100% on the gas 100% on the brakes no middle ground. If there are no other drivers around she’ll get mad and yell at the stop signs. My wife can’t even get in the car with her because she gets motion sickness. I’ve never seen her get sick with any other driver. My dad thought taking away the manual transmission might mellow her out but that failed. I still have no idea how she managed to teach me how to drive without killing anyone let alone how to drive a manual transmission. A few years ago before the Impreza I borrowed her manual Altima for the day. Clutch blew up on the way home. She starts cussing me out and I’m like I don’t want to hear it, I’ve gotten my damn OE Hyundai clutch to 100k I know how to fucking shift. Then my dad storms in and proceeds to inform me that it was blown clutch number 3 in 90k and my mom’s driving like a crazy person the last 30k miles killed it not me.

His Stigness > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/09/2017 at 23:49

Holy jebus! I guess I should be fortunate at that my Golf has gone 50k and is fine so far (it’s technically my mom’s car) even though she slips the clutch wayyy too much for my liking, and will rest her foot on the clutch while going through the gears. The major clutch slippage is like nails on a chalk board to me because I’m the one that’s going to have to take the damn clutch out; I don’t even care as much about the $1,000 or so in parts it’s going to cost me, but just the labor of taking it out.

If you are in California you can actually get DMV to re-test your mom by notifying DMV. But maybe you and your dad don’t want to do that?

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > His Stigness
08/10/2017 at 00:33

The thing is if she took a test she’d pass - she knows how to drive - she just chooses to drive like an ass. She doesn’t look at the phone, she doesn’t get distracted, she uses turn signals. She knows the rules and pays attention to the road... she’s just basically constantly hooning the damn thing. The instant a light turns green it’s chirp tires, redline to 5-10 over the speed limit, slam on brakes at next red light, wipe rinse repeat.

I’m an idiot and will slip the clutch pretty good in traffic just to keep it smooth. We’ll see how long it lasts on this car, but the Hyundai one lasted over 100k.

His Stigness > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/10/2017 at 01:31

I try and dump the clutch, but in a smooth way, which usually ends up chirping the tires. But those are much easier to change than a clutch.

And I sort of drive like. I don’t floor it all the time, or go all the way to redline. But I do drive over the limit, yet my cars are in perfect working order. So clearly she’s failing somewhere.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/10/2017 at 08:45

My brother has a 3.6, it blew the engine... so he’s got a 2.5 loaner at the moment. It’s not bad by any stretch. Granted his is an Outback and this is a Legacy, but still:

Kinja'd!!!

The top two times are from the Legacy, the bottom two are from my truck. It’s just a GPS-based timer, but if anything it reads high—I’ve timed my truck at 6.9-7.0 before. These were done on the same piece of road. About the only difference is my run was in the afternoon heat and his were in the evening.

So... AWD full (mid?) size sedan, with only 175hp, two people on board, doing at least a 7.8 second run and probably a 7.3 second run. Not bad, any way you want to look at it.