Mazda burying the lede, twice

"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr) 08/08/2017 at 08:37 • Filed to: mazda, electric vehicles, electric, automation, Self-Driving Cars

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So this is actually kinda big, but I feel like a lot of people will focus on their announcing a production HCCI engine for 2019 (which is interesting in its own way, and the front page already !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , although that wasn’t confirmed yet), not one sentence they buried in the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

From 2019, Mazda will begin introducing electric vehicles and other electric drive technologies in regions that use a high ratio of clean energy for power generation or restrict certain vehicles to reduce air pollution.

Well, that’s a big turnaround, from things that were literally released last week, about how Mazda’s focusing on ICE over EVs. (Of course, Mazda’s announcement of a partnership with Toyota on EVs also undermined that.)

And, the fact that they’re aiming them at “regions that use a high ratio of clean energy for power generation” also tells me that maybe this won’t be a compliance car? (Realistically, it’s going to be a compliance car, but LET ME DREAM, OK?)

Also, an even more buried lede, although one that I feel that Oppositelock is less interested in:

Begin testing of autonomous driving technologies currently being developed in line with Mazda’s human-centered Mazda Co-Pilot Concept *2 in 2020, aiming to make the system standard on all models by 2025

*2 Mazda’s human-centered self-driving technology development concept. People enjoy driving while being revitalized mentally and physically. Meanwhile the car is driving “virtually” with a firm grasp of the movements of the driver and the car. In unexpected situations, such as a sudden loss of consciousness, the car will override the driver, automatically contact emergency services and drive safely to the most appropriate location.

What’s interesting about these claims is that they’re not going for the tech press’s goal of full autonomy (which is fiendishly difficult). Instead, they’re going for what Alex Roy !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! as “augmented driving” or “driving envelope protections” - the driver’s still in control, but if they exceed safe boundaries, the systems intervene to save their ass, much like the flight envelope protections present in some aircraft.

Ash78, voting early and often > bhtooefr 08/08/2017 at 08:51

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Solid. I like both announcements, from virtually calling out areas of “dirty energy” to realistically explaining they’re not aiming for full autonomy. This seems practical and encouraging to me.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr 08/08/2017 at 09:05

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Hot take: I hate these fucking “active driver assist” systems. Either drive the car for me or let me drive the car. Auto braking can die in a fire. Auto steering can follow suit. Fucking beep-beep-beep warning devices can go take a swim in hydrochloric acid. Traction control can go wallow in shit. I’ll make a pass for stability control, but you damn well better make it fully defeatable. The ONLY one I’m OK with is ABS.

I get that there has to be a half-way step, but don’t force it on me. Someone else can deal with that shit. If it isn’t optional you’ve already lost me as a customer. And FFS, don’t make it possible to turn off but default back to on with every ignition cycle and then bury the off switch behind miles of menus. Have the common decency to put it on the dash.

You want to know specifically what I hate about them? Much of the time, they aren’t “assisting”, they’re “second-guessing”. Second-guessing=bad. Imagine having two drivers at all times, with the driving mostly left to one person, but the second has absolute authority and is usually panicky. I dealt with that enough in drivers ed. There was ONE situation I was glad of intervention, the rest of the time it was an annoyance at best and a danger at worst. They’re taking your driving and turning it into that of the hesitant old man camped out in the left lane. The thresholds have to be set low so they work in the majority of situations, but that results in false alarms.

Note: I included the beeping bullshit as an active device because it might as well be. It’s such a piercing tone by necessity that it gets an automatic reaction from the driver. That reaction will not always be the right one. Far better are blind spot indicator lights and backup cameras that give you information to make an informed decision rather than those alarmist bullshit beepers screaming in your ear.

bhtooefr > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 08/08/2017 at 09:18

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It’s Mazda , there’ll almost certainly be a switch, at least.

gawdzillla > bhtooefr 08/08/2017 at 09:21

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Mazda claimed they’d bring diesel to the US like 5 years ago

Honeybunchesofgoats > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 08/08/2017 at 09:23

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Yeah, but tell us how you really feel.

Also, I agree mostly entirely. I don’t want them in any car I’m driving, but I will say that when I’m in 60 MPH rush hour traffic, I feel much more comfortable when there’s a new car with automatic assists behind me than I do when there’s a teenager in a 20 year old shitbox.

bhtooefr > Ash78, voting early and often 08/08/2017 at 09:27

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As far as dirty energy, that’s been improving rapidly, as wind and solar capacity have gotten cheaper (even new wind and solar) than, in some cases, running existing non-renewable power plants. (The big thing is grid management, whether through storage or demand shifting.)

Here’s the situation right now, for the average EV in the US market using 2014 grid data:

If they’re really 20-30% more efficient (is that a peak number, or an overall number) than the current SkyActiv-G cars, you’re looking at somewhere between 34 and 42 mpg combined for a Mazda3 depending on power level, transmission, and which end of that efficiency claim they’re on. Hybridization would help as well - you’d then be looking at somewhere between 40 and 48 mpg (which would also be the highway number of the non-hybrid - you might get a bit better than that, too, because hybridization does help highway mileage some by optimizing engine efficiency). That is, of course, ignoring any efficiency improvements brought by the car’s aerodynamics, chassis, or the transmission being more efficient.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr 08/08/2017 at 09:28

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I’m not picking on anybody in particular, I’m making a general statement. But if they do good for them.

bhtooefr > Honeybunchesofgoats 08/08/2017 at 09:33

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Basically this.

I specifically bought a trim level of my Prius without the assists because I didn’t want them (well, OK, I wouldn’t mind radar cruise), but I’m glad that most Prius drivers (all for 2017+) have them.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Honeybunchesofgoats 08/08/2017 at 09:34

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I’m happy with ABS, indicator lights and defeatable SC... I’d rather that nobody on the road had auto braking, but if someone had to I’d rather it be old farts where there would be almost no false positives. Give a newly-minted driver a car with auto braking and watch the fun begin when they try to hole-shot someone—no thanks. Also auto assists seem to make people feel invincible.

I’m happy with anything that feeds the driver information, as long as it’s subtle and unobtrusive. I don’t like “here let me drive for a second ok here you go I’m bored” panicky bullshit ADHD systems.

bhtooefr > gawdzillla 08/08/2017 at 09:36

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To be fair, Mazda also thought it was possible to get a diesel through US emissions without AdBlue or cheating, and couldn’t figure out why they couldn’t get it done - after all, VW got it done, right? Wrong, they just cheated. (This is also why the Honda Accord i-DTEC never launched, and why the Chevy Cruze Diesel was delayed.)

Ultimately, Mazda had to go back and add AdBlue, which the first-generation SkyActiv-Body cars didn’t support.

bhtooefr > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 08/08/2017 at 09:42

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I will say, I’d rather see every dime that’s currently going into autonomous driving technologies instead go into mass transit development and cycling infrastructure development - the people who need those technologies the most are the people who shouldn’t be driving at all, and at least in the US, we’re serving those people very, very badly.

In my ideal world, the Camry wouldn’t exist (or it would be the sport sedan that Toyota’s trying to make it into, and it once was - remember, it was originally sold as a sedan variant of the Celica) - everyone who buys one today would be using mass transit or riding a bicycle to work instead.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr 08/08/2017 at 10:16

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I hate taking public transit, myself... but it has to exist. And if it’s worth having it’s worth doing right. Because I’m by nature an opinionated person, have some opinions:

- Autonomous vehicles are a smart thing to develop, but the development is seriously misguided. IMO the development should not be going into passenger cars but rather buses and highway trucks. Anything that NEEDS a human on board (local delivery vehicles, passenger cars) might as well have the human driving because the nitty-gritty of the the city where they go is rarely laid out in a logical way and the routes are unpredictable. A human, at least right now, can do that job better.

- Same goes for electric vehicles. Until fuel cells become viable for everyone, batteries are the only way. Batteries make way more sense installed on heavy vehicles such as trucks and buses than in cars, because they can carry a useful amount of them and because of the packaging can be set up for battery swapping easier. Also they follow more predictable routes. Especially buses, where they do a set route and then sit tight for a regular interval. Why not run them off batteries and set up battery swap stations at the terminal?

- TRANSIT AND PERSONAL CARS DON’T HAVE TO CONFLICT. ONE DOES NOT HAVE TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE OTHER. IT DOESN’T SOLVE ANYTHING. In other words, don’t lay an LRT line by taking away part of a road. The LRT line can be installed without interfering with the road. That way you alleviate traffic, not move it over.

Honeybunchesofgoats > bhtooefr 08/08/2017 at 10:18

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One of the scariest realizations in my life was trying to figure out what a permanently dark light on my sixteen year old Jag’s dash was and discovering it was for a rarely optioned adaptive cruise control. I love Jags, but I don’t see how using that could ever not end in tears.