Good Morning [Breakfast Politics]

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 07/28/2017 at 08:52 • Filed to: None

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John McCain has put the brakes on the crazy train.

We must now return to the correct way of legislating and send the bill back to committee, hold hearings, receive input from both sides of aisle, heed the recommendations of nation’s governors, and produce a bill that finally delivers affordable health care for the American people. We must do the hard work our citizens expect of us and deserve.

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Wheelerguy > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 08:55

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http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/bah-gawd-its-the-rattlesnake-1797324485

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Wheelerguy 07/28/2017 at 08:56

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That is amazing

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 08:59

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Not related at all, but god that song is good

PS9 > Wheelerguy 07/28/2017 at 08:59

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McConnell totally wanted to clothsline McCain there. 100%.

Wheelerguy > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 07/28/2017 at 09:02

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Not as amazing as the one in 1998 when Undertaker threw Mick Foley off Hell in a Cell and plummeted 16ft through to the announcer’s table.

Wheelerguy > PS9 07/28/2017 at 09:03

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McCain came prepared, though. VICIOUS CHAIR SHOTS TO THE HEAD!!!

EL_ULY > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 09:07

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Nice. A buuuuuuuuunch of Trump voters will continue to pretend to not like the ACA for a little longer.

They’re literally willing to loose their benefits so that actual for real poor people won’t have access to healthcare.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 09:11

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I know it may sound weird, but can you imagine what would happen if the President wasn’t so grossly incompetent?

pip bip - choose Corrour > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 09:11

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the only Republican with a brain.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Wheelerguy 07/28/2017 at 09:13

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God. Damn. You ..

Jayhawk Jake > EL_ULY 07/28/2017 at 09:16

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Are they willing to lose their benefits though? Polls put the approval rating of these repeal and replace bills lower than even Trump’s approval rating.

People want to get rid of Obamacare only because politicians and right wing news outlets keep acting like it’s the start of the apocalypse, yet once they learn they’ll lose their healthcare like millions of their fellow Americans they second guess their convictions.

The Republican Party has had 7 years to come up with a better solution and they have failed time and time again. Now they control the house, the senate, and the presidency and they still couldn’t pass even a simple ‘repeal Obamacare’ bill. It’s too bad conservative voters will blame everyone but their representatives for this shit show, so we’ll just see more of the same for years to come.

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/28/2017 at 09:17

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Except two other Republicans also voted against it, Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.

boredalways > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 09:18

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John McCain has put the brakes on the crazy train THAT HE STARTED EARLIER IN THE WEEK!*

*not a FTFY situation because you’re right. just pointing out that he allowed it to get this far.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 07/28/2017 at 09:20

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well ,i’ll qualify that by saying high profile Republicans. i haven’t heard of the other two here in Australia.

ttyymmnn > boredalways 07/28/2017 at 09:20

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Yeah, it’s interesting how he waited until the last possible second to pull the cord.

crowmolly > Jayhawk Jake 07/28/2017 at 09:23

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American exceptionalism shines through.

Wait, I won’t have health care anymore?

Fucking jack offs.

Tekamul > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 09:26

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He did it just to fuck with Trump. But I’ll still take it.

The healthcare system as a whole is entirely broken, but going back to relying on triage-only care for thevery sick or very poor will not fix it.

random001 > boredalways 07/28/2017 at 09:27

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Technically he voted yes on a measure to allow for a vote, then voted the bill down, so really he just allowed them to shift into drive, but not go anywhere bad just yet.

BigBlock440 > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 09:28

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Fuck McCain, Mccain is the worst.

ttyymmnn > Tekamul 07/28/2017 at 09:30

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You gotta have healthy people paying in.

Ash78, voting early and often > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 09:31

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You can’t just repeal something in one fell swoop. It’s pretty simple. But the longer the ACA goes on, the harder it’s going to get. I keep hearing “We’re going to leave 20 million Americans without insurance” but isn’t that the same 20 million (give or take) that weren’t insured 3-4 years ago? It’s interesting how this is framed.

All I know is my employer-sponsored plans have gotten ridiculously costly and everyone seems to want to blame Obamacare for it. I don’t know how much of that is reality or how much of that is scapegoating costs that were already on the rise, but something has to change. I’m now paying only about 10% less than someone who is unemployed and on Obamacare. You would think a large employer would have more clout, but apparently the whole thing today is shifting costs (and hassles) to the patients.

I also know that I spend 10x more time these days on the phone with doctors and insurance companies, working out payment plans, disputing bills, asking for charges to be removed, etc. This is such a waste of time and I imagine multiplying this by the 100 million people (give or take) who have to do the same thing...or maybe they just suck it up and pay the bill, which is completely against the spirit of ACA and high-deductible plans in general.

If you want a “free market” of any kind, practitioners HAVE to publish their rates and give estimates. Otherwise nothing will ever change.

boredalways > random001 07/28/2017 at 09:34

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...kinda like the MGU-H on a McLaren-Honda, huh?

Tekamul > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 09:35

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Single payer is the ultimate destination, but the corporate profits from the US ‘open’ market is propping up global healthcare profits. Until that can be divorced or controlled, the costs are always going to look huge.

That and the non-service expenditures undertaken by healthcare facilities. The main lobby in my local hospital is nicer than the Hilton. I’m not sure why.

EL_ULY > Jayhawk Jake 07/28/2017 at 09:38

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lol pretty much. Such a crazy situation.

EL_ULY > crowmolly 07/28/2017 at 09:38

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exactly :}

random001 > boredalways 07/28/2017 at 09:39

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Dude, nice.

fintail > EL_ULY 07/28/2017 at 09:46

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bu-bu-but death panels! But freedom! Socialism! Bootstrapping! I built this! got mine, to heck with you!

Sorry, got stuck in a Trumper feedback loop.

Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever > boredalways 07/28/2017 at 09:47

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To be fair, when he voted to start debate, he said he didn’t support any of the options currently on the table. He’d also been saying prior to this week that he thought we needed bipartisan discussion. I honestly believe he thought voting to move forward with floor debates/votes this week was the only way to start bipartisan discussion. And to his credit, when no better options were presented, he didn’t just bite the bullet and take the only option available. He represented his constituents (which he’s supposed to), not himself or his party.

just-a-scratch > BigBlock440 07/28/2017 at 09:50

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I strongly disagree.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Tekamul 07/28/2017 at 10:01

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Yeah, I’m not so sure the ACA is to blame for the system being broken. Sure there are things wrong with it. But I think as others mentioned we need to start turning our attention to overspending in the healthcare industry. Much like the insurance racket in the car industry, things become exponentially more expensive once an insurance company is footing the bill. Which they are fine with because they add their own mark-up. That’s my thoughts on it, I know enough to be dangerous.

Nothing > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 10:16

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Just like many court cases, American politics isn’t about right or wrong, it’s about win/lose. Either party will try and push legislation through simply to put a win in their column, rather than actually concern themselves with the outcome of the legislation.

ttyymmnn > Nothing 07/28/2017 at 10:27

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Exactly. The GOP needed passage of anything so they could say that they made good on their campaign promises. They had little interest in what the bills would actually do. Maybe (please please please) they can all go back and find some common ground and get the ACA fixed.

Nah, probably not.

DipodomysDeserti > BigBlock440 07/28/2017 at 10:32

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You forgot to add “Sad!”.

BigBlock440 > just-a-scratch 07/28/2017 at 10:33

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Are we not on the McCain hatefest anymore? I can’t keep up.

Textured Soy Protein > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/28/2017 at 10:34

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McCain is the most famous US senator, especially outside the US.

Textured Soy Protein > Ash78, voting early and often 07/28/2017 at 10:44

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This is a very detailed breakdown of how the ACA has affected premium costs. But the short answer is that premiums and deductibles have actually grown at a slower rate after the ACA than before it. Provisions of the ACA like allowing dependents to stay on plans until 26, requiring coverage of preexisting conditions, maternity, etc. were worked into higher premium costs for employers, but still, premium costs for employers have grown at a slower rate post-ACA than pre-ACA.

The reason why it feels more noticeable is that before the ACA, many people had no or low deductible plans available through their employers, and most people with employer-sponsored plans are only paying a small portion of the total premium cost.

As premiums have continued to rise, insurers have tried to shift employers towards high-deductible + HSA plans as a way to save on premiums. At some point, employers are faced with a choice of paying ever-rising premiums, or accepting a deductible of some kind on their group plan. They often will offer a couple tiers of plans with different structures and deductibles.

Switching over to a higher deductible plan, or going to a deductible where previously there hadn’t been one, doesn’t necessarily affect the employer’s spending all that much, but from the perspective of the employee, they see their payroll-deducted premium stay in the same general ballpark, but they’re now stuck with some kind of deductible they didn’t have before, or a much bigger one than before. So it feels like a much bigger change than what the employer (who is paying the majority of the premium) experiences.

Ash78, voting early and often > Textured Soy Protein 07/28/2017 at 10:49

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Makes sense. This is one of the hardest things to track because the increasing costs and ACA were both ramping up at the same time. Further, premiums may stay flat, but the real cost is the deductible (and out of pocket max). We hit our family max last year, but this year we’re far from it. All I know is that HDHPs are a disincentive to get treatment for me. I don’t like it, but I feel like now I wait until something is really bad (including psych concerns) before seeking any help. I don’t want to put a price on healthcare, so to speak, but the disincentive is real.

I keep close track of my finances, but healthcare still eludes me because the costs are all over the place and arrive at wildly different times. It’s very tough to keep track of for a family.

Oddly enough, my Rx coverage is amazing. Back when I was on full coverage, an Rx was usually $15 or $30. Now I pay $0.50 - $3 for a month. It’s very schizophrenic.

Textured Soy Protein > Ash78, voting early and often 07/28/2017 at 10:54

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Right now I’m on a “cadillac” no deductible plan through my wife’s job. She works for an HMO. She’s leaving that job and we’re going to switch to mine, which has a deductible. It’s weird though because even with the deductible, it has things like 3 non-preventive PCP visits and 3 specialist visits with a copay before you have to worry about the deductible, and all diagnostics and mental health services are fully covered with no copay. It’s just that if you have an expensive procedure you’re stuck paying whatever few thousands it costs (at the insurer’s negotiated rates) before you get any relief from the insurer.

You’re absolutely right that deductibles deter people from getting care. Great for the insurer, not at all great for the insured. The only people who high deductible plans really work for are those who make enough income to fully fund their HSA to cover the deductible, but those people are still spending a super high amount of money on healthcare. It’s just that they can afford it.

Ash78, voting early and often > Textured Soy Protein 07/28/2017 at 11:00

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Because of the HSA (and some employer bonuses they offer there), it’s not terrible, but still worse than my old Cadillac Plans. I always liked those because even if they were more expensive on average, I knew exactly what to plan for. My healthcare wouldn’t vary by more than 20% year over year.

Now we might see 300%+ swings each year, which makes budgeting very hard. People don’t like surprises — that’s part of why so many people use post-paid cell plans when a prepaid plan would work better for them. We’d rather pay $100/mo every month than to pay $70, then $150, then $100, etc.

Textured Soy Protein > Ash78, voting early and often 07/28/2017 at 11:02

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I have a prepaid cell phone plan and it’s the same $95/month every month for 15 GB for my and my wife’s phones. ;)

Ash78, voting early and often > Textured Soy Protein 07/28/2017 at 11:03

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Nice, I didn’t know they did any kind of fixed pricing. I always hated them because you had to “babysit” your balances and reload constantly...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Tekamul 07/28/2017 at 11:04

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Ultimate destination for whom?

bhtooefr > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 07/28/2017 at 11:11

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And they’ve been outspoken against this from the beginning, rather than voting yes to get this crazy train rolling while speaking out against it.

TheRealBicycleBuck > ttyymmnn 07/28/2017 at 11:13

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Yep. Healthcare is broken. When Obamacare came online, our healthcare premiums nearly doubled. We were lucky enough to have policies through both my and my wife’s employer. Each acted as coinsurance for the other. Our monthly costs were higher, but our out-of-pocket costs were limited to co-pays. We were willing to pay for the peace of mind.

The increased premiums changed the picture. They were higher than our maximum out-of-pocket from my insurance. So, it made sense to drop my wife’s coverage on the family. No more coinsurance! With the two companies providing co-insurance for each other, the total risk and total costs were distributed between the two insurance providers. Now all of the extra premium that they would have received is making money for the bank instead.

Tekamul > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 07/28/2017 at 11:20

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Single payer is the best chance this country has to get to universal coverage. Universal coverage is a staple of a civilized society. It should be a goal for everyone, or anyone with compassion.

His Stigness > EL_ULY 07/28/2017 at 14:34

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No, I think they’re willing to remain ignorant to the fact that they’ll either lose their benefits or be priced out of the market, because without the individual mandate costs now will seem cheap in comparison.

I do love, though, that Trump supporters actually like the ACA. So long as you don’t call it the ACA or Obamacare and just tell them what it does for them.

EL_ULY > His Stigness 07/28/2017 at 14:49

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LOL indeed. Many uninsured trumpets are convince that the reason prices are high is because of Obamacare

just-a-scratch > BigBlock440 07/28/2017 at 17:08

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I’m not. He’s just a guy with principles that I sometimes disagree with.