Learning to drive stick - got tips?

"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich) 07/24/2017 at 21:41 • Filed to: None

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I’m slightly ashamed to say that I don’t (entirely) know how to drive a manual transmission. The last time I did it was probably about 7 years ago, and it was just once - in my Dad’s Toyota Tercel. Fast forward to now, and now I have a legitimate need to learn. We are going to be going on a bit of a trip, and my car is making some rather odd creaking/groaning noises. (I’m thinking ball joints and/or tie rod ends). Rather than take my car, the wise decision seems to be taking my wife’s car (Pontiac Vibe), which has a manual transmission.

We had a little lesson tonight, and I think it went fairly well. The one thing that I have a bit of difficult with, though, is not stalling when going from a stop into first. Is it just a matter practice, and knowing at one point the clutch engages, and knowing how much to rev when slowly letting out the clutch?

Teach me, oh wise ones. :P

Given that both Mrs. Baconsandwich and I are still happy, I’d call that a successful lesson. It was roughly half an hour of driving around a nearby church parking lot - going from a stop, to first, to second, back down to first, then to a stop. The burnout marks totally weren’t from me. (Okay, the big burnout marks weren’t from me. The burnt clutch smell was totally me, though).

(There’s three things that I learned about the future Mrs. Baconsandwich the evening that we met: one of those things is that she could drive a manual transmission. So it pays to learn, I guess!)

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 21:47

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Never shift into 1st from 2nd when moving, always wait till your stopped then go into 1st. When going into or outof reverse always be stopped.

PowderHound > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 21:47

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Push the gas pedal in 1/2 way and release the clutch while slamming the gas pedal to the floor…

ttyymmnn > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 21:49

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It’s all about finding the friction point and giving the proper amount of gas to keep it from stalling. It really is nothing more than a matter of practice and muscle memory. When I was learning back in the day, I finally got it down by spending about 3o minutes in a parking lot doing nothing but first-gear starts. Once you hit the friction point, it almost feels like you are pushing your left foot up with the right foot, almost like a lever between the pedals.

And don’t rest your foot on the clutch while driving. Take it all the way off. There’s no better way to burn out a clutch than to rest your foot on it.

Nauraushaun > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 21:50

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I think the key with getting moving in 1st is to listen to the car. You want the revs to stay pretty well constant. If they dip too low, press the accelerator.

If all you do is listen to and act on the revs, you can’t stall.

Also rev the nuts off it on hill starts :P You can’t stall if you’ve got heaps of revs

Aaron M - MasoFiST > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 21:53

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The best practice you can do is operating the new (i.e. clutch) pedal on its own. Most stock clutches will, at the beginning of the friction zone, have enough slip to start moving with no gas at all. If you’re stalling a lot, leave the gas out of it and then just practice inching with the clutch. The simultaneous feet thing throws people for a loop so if you isolate the new motion it’ll be easier. Then add the clutch-out-gas-in later.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Nauraushaun 07/24/2017 at 21:53

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Ha ha! I like your advice about hill starts.

I’ll have to go for another practice session tomorrow evening and try to do a better job of listening. Unfortunately there’s not a lot of engine noise, but being summer at least I can have the windows down. :P

BaconSandwich is tasty. > ttyymmnn 07/24/2017 at 21:54

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I recall hearing that about not keeping your foot on the clutch. It tends to wear out some of the bearings, right?

BaconSandwich is tasty. > PowderHound 07/24/2017 at 21:55

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Ha ha ha! So it was you who was leaving the burnouts in that same parking lot... :P

ttyymmnn > Nauraushaun 07/24/2017 at 21:56

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Once you get good at it, hill starts are no different. You just have to do the sequence a little faster. Until you get good at it, you can use the handbrake to hold station until the clutch bites. Assuming, of course, they still put handbrakes in cars.

ttyymmnn > Aaron M - MasoFiST 07/24/2017 at 21:57

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Most stock clutches will, at the beginning of the friction zone, have enough slip to start moving with no gas at all.

Yes. This. This is how I learned the friction point when I was starting out.

ttyymmnn > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 07/24/2017 at 21:58

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Which is not to say that it can’t be done, it’s just not a good idea.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > ttyymmnn 07/24/2017 at 21:59

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It’s not a good idea, but once or twice won’t kill it.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:00

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Yes its just a matter of practise and mostly why those of us who can drive manual are typically hopeless at helping those who can’t. You can’t teach ‘feel’ and you can’t truly remember what it was like when you didn’t have it. It’s a body memory kind of thing and it’s also why even manual drivers get caught out when they switch from one car they are familiar to another manual that they aren’t.

My primary hint is that once you feel the clutch start to take up then get your foot off the pedal immediately rather than riding it out and keep your foot away from it until you need to change gear.

A good way to get an understanding of feel is start off in first and get moving, go to second and then press the clutch in, get off the gas and coast for a bit. Then get off the clutch, feel the connection take and give it some gas then.....repeat and repeat and repeat.

As the Crazy Kanuck said...don’t be going into first whilst the car is on the move. Bad juju for the drivetrain.

tpw_rules > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:01

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You absolutely should not keep your foot resting on the clutch. It will disengage slightly and you’ll wear it out instantly. You also should not put your foot all the way down on the clutch at e.g. a light, instead of shifting into neutral. This will wear out the bearing which disengages the clutch. Also don’t rest your hand on the stick.

What I found, to great success, is that the key is to not let yourself use the gas pedal. Find a flat area and get it started in first gear with just the clutch until you can do it every time. You’ll stall it a million times, but that’s okay. Only once you’ve completely learned the friction point and smoothness can you introduce the gas and work on doing a faster start.

ttyymmnn > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:02

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Yes. Some bearings. The throwout bearing, to be exact. (I think.) Just don’t do it. There should be a handy foot rest to the left of the clutch. You know, to rest your foot on.

Matsayz > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:04

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YouTube! Seriously, besides having an experienced person in the car it’s the next best thing

Aaron James > Aaron M - MasoFiST 07/24/2017 at 22:06

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this is good advice

benjrblant > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:07

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If you have a choice of vehicles, try and practice with a truck. Lower gearing and mucho more torque makes it more difficult to stall. Once you get the easing of the clutch you can move to a normal car or something. I think ttyymmnn nailed the technique though.

Urambo Tauro > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:09

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Some good tips already, but I’d like to add- Don’t forget to adopt a new version of “panic mode”. If you ever find yourself needing to slam on the brakes, be sure to hit the clutch at the same time to keep the engine from stalling. That way you won’t lose power brakes or power steering, and you also won’t have to restart the engine all over again.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Urambo Tauro 07/24/2017 at 22:10

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I’ve heard the expression “both feet in”. If you’ve got to stop, hit the brake and clutch right to the floor.

Urambo Tauro > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:12

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Bingo; you got it!

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > PowderHound 07/24/2017 at 22:16

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I was going to say hit the gas until the tack is in the red zone. Put car in first gear and release the clutch really fast.

My bird IS the word > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:20

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intentionally stall the car a couple of times, so you know exactly where the clutch grabs at. besides that, driving stick is really not hard, the only tricky bit is hills. depending on where you live that may or may not be a problem ( and many new cars have anti-rollback where they hold the brakes automatically, your wife’s vibe may or may not have it)

PowderHound > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:20

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I wish! with 245whp in AWD I would need some skinny little tires

PowderHound > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/24/2017 at 22:21

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Baby steps.

deekster_caddy > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:25

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1) don’t rev the engine so high, unless you are trying to bump it across an intersection in a hurry...

2) Practice letting the clutch out without stepping on the gas - you should be able to get going from a stop to rolling along in 1st quite easily. This will help you get a feel for clutch engagement

3) When you are going, let the clutch out easy at first, but as you add more throttle get the heck off the clutch so you don’t burn it out!

4) adjust all of these methods once you have been doing it for a while - if you can smell the clutch burning you’re doing it wrong ;)

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:35

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Sound advice, at least until you have the assistance of muscle memory over time, is to wear shoes conducive to learning/driving stick....i.e. don’t wear boots or shoes with thick soles and don’t wear ‘shoes’ (sandals or flip flops) that are loose-fitting. You want to be able to feel the clutch engaging and having snug, thinner-soled shoes works best for that until you get it down pat enough that muscle memory lets you drive no matter what shoes you are wearing.

Try barefoot to help you learn the engagement point well if need be, as that would give the best feel, but I would actually recommend NOT learning a bit that way as you’ll always be driving with shoes and socks on most of the time.

...hope that all made sense :)

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:37

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this helps.

promoted by the color red > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:50

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Expect to fail. Don’t try to be smooth and competent in one go - get the car going, understand what it’s trying to do, and then work on being smooth with the inputs.

boxrocket > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 22:59

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wafflesnfalafel > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 23:07

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tip 1 - I figure learning to drive a manual transmission is a little like dancing - it takes a little time to get the muscle memory and that is perfectly normal

tip 2 - buy Mrs. BaconSandwich some flowers

sony1492 > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 23:31

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It’s probably already been said but, for hillstarts put the handbrake on before you try and let of the brake to get going. With the car resting on the brake you’ll have both feet free to deal with getting into gear and going.

Another thing, once your thrown into the thick of it (driving in traffic with little experience) you will get decent quick. I mean it won’t really be a problem after just doing it for an hour on the road. And don’t get discouraged by stalling because for it’s better than lunging forward.

jasmits > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 23:41

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Practice, really. It’s figuring out how to get a feel for the friction point and how much gas you need to give it in different situations to keep the revs where you want them. For me what worked well my very first time was(on flat ground) slowly letting the clutch out till the car starts to roll/revs start to drop without even touching or thinking about the gas. Once I got a feel for where that happened I started playing with adding a bit of gas. Really once you get the feel for the friction point it’s smooth(well, actually still quite jerky for the first few days/weeks) sailing.

For me it took an hour or two session with my dad to get competent enough to drive about but still not comfortable and a week or two of dailying a manual car(half hour commute in stop-and-go traffic that summer lol) to feel comfortable with it.

Nauraushaun > ttyymmnn 07/24/2017 at 23:45

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I’ve never done the handbrake thing. Waste of effort if you can get off the clutch quick enough

Nauraushaun > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 23:46

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Rev harder. Get a new exhaust. Cut off the exhaust.

Nah maybe you could use the tacho ;) But I think the sound is better if you can hear it

jasmits > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/24/2017 at 23:48

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NEVER rest your foot on the clutch while the car is moving/in gear, it’ll just be slipping a bit the whole time and wear out much, much faster.

The bearing you’re thinking of is the throwout bearing. This wears out faster when you keep your foot all the way down on the clutch when stopped etc. This isn’t as big of a deal, they last pretty well and are designed for what they do, it’s just another wear point. It’s a better practice to just keep it in neutral, foot off clutch when hanging out at a red light or idling for more than a few seconds for whatever reason(also more comfortable, so why not!) but don’t sweat that one so much.

Do sweat: when driving/in gear foot OFF clutch. Not touching, not hovering over it, off. Using the clutch as a footrest while driving is one of the worst habits you can have in a manual car.

ttyymmnn > Nauraushaun 07/24/2017 at 23:53

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That’s why I suggested doing it until he gets better at the clutch.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Urambo Tauro 07/25/2017 at 00:11

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Actually, you could stop faster if you leave it in gear and only release the clutch when the RPMs drop too low. I do this because driving a manual is second nature for me at this point.

For a beginner, it’s good advice.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/25/2017 at 00:14

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Holding it in at a stop wears out your throwout bearings. Constantly riding the clutch (so it’s engaged to some extent) will wear your clutch quickly.

When stopping, shift to neutral and keep your clutch depressed the minimum amount of time possible while shifting.

Elumerere > Matsayz 07/25/2017 at 02:25

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Yup. Matt Farah (hate him or whatever) has a great video on how to drive stick.

Cé hé sin > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/25/2017 at 05:07

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Better off using the brakes only first though so as to get some benefit from engine braking.

OPPOsaurus WRX > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/25/2017 at 07:46

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to add to that, pull it out of gear and into nuetral. I had a couple o shit moments where i went both feet in and once the situation was over i just pulled my foot off the clutch and clunk bang nogood

FoilyDoily > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/25/2017 at 07:48

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MisterDoily took me to an empty parking garage with a slight ramp and he had me going up ramps without using the gas to get a sense of what the car does and when it engages.

Also - he was really adamant about not using the hand brake for hill starts (it worked, apparently - we turned off hill assist in our newest car because it made me irrationally angry). And never ever leaving the car in gear or having my foot on the clutch while waiting for lights. The fractions of a second you may save are not worth the wear and tear on the clutch.

Otherwise - patience. You’ll get it. You may stall. And as jarring as it may be when it happens, it’s fine. I stalled twice in the last week backing out of parking spaces. It happens. You turn the car off. You turn the car on. And then away you go. Nothing lost except a couple of seconds.

greasemonkey235097 > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/25/2017 at 13:47

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Learn the grabbing point of the clutch, and how delicate to be with it by not using the accelerator. Just the clutch pedal, just release verry slow and gentle, when you have that down the move on to taking off with the accelerator.