Curious

"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012) 07/03/2017 at 08:10 • Filed to: None

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Illinois just voted to hike taxes 37%.

In a state that is broke and taxes about to go through the roof, I am sure many people will decide to leave the state.

As a home owner, can one simply up and leave? Abandon property? Donate to fire department? Let the municipality take over the property?

Michigan has had this problem. People are willing to sell for a dollar just to get out of state/town. What if there are no buyers?

bhtooefr > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 08:19

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It looks like it’s a personal income tax hike from 3.75% to 4.95% (which is a 32% increase in the tax rate, not 37%), and a corporate income tax hike from 5.25% to 7% (a 33% increase in the tax rate): http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-morning-spin-monday-20170701-story.html

pip bip - choose Corrour > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 08:36

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burn it down before you go perhaps?

LongbowMkII > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 08:38

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The state will be less broke. Just pressure your local officials to spend it on what they ought to (edu/police/pensions) that what they don’t. Like the 2032 olympics or a new stadium for billionaires/UIll

ttyymmnn > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 08:40

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The states are finally learning that trickle down economics is a sham, at the same time that the federal government is about to apply those broken theories to the entire country.

shop-teacher > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 08:53

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My wife and I were talking about leaving Illinois two nights ago. I honestly have no idea where we’d go though.

PartyPooper2012 > shop-teacher 07/03/2017 at 08:59

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Throw a dart at a map. Don’t aim near Illinois

PartyPooper2012 > LongbowMkII 07/03/2017 at 09:02

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In this neck of the woods, we have MTA. They have been raising fees forever. However, those extra funds never went to repairs or improvements. Now trains derail almost daily. They need more money to fix shit. I wonder what they did with all the money they raised from raising ticket fees and tolls.

What I am saying is that whatever taxes they get out of this will just go to hurt them. People will move. Surely not all, but those who will be hurt most by it will leave.

37% of zero is big fat zero.

PartyPooper2012 > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/03/2017 at 09:03

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say you burn it down. you don’t file insurance claim so it’s not insurance fraud. You call fire department so they monitor it to make sure fire doesn’t jump to another property... I guess that is all legal?

PartyPooper2012 > bhtooefr 07/03/2017 at 09:04

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Yeah. I am just curious how many people will leave state because of this.

Rainbow > LongbowMkII 07/03/2017 at 09:05

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This. High taxes aren’t necessarily a bad thing when they cover stuff that’s beneficial and/or necessary to the people paying them. Hopefully this gets the state back on track so that they can bring the taxes back down in the future.

pip bip - choose Corrour > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:06

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that’s my theory.

no insurance claim = no insurance fraud

WilliamsSW > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:07

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The Illinois House approved the hike - the Senate will consider it today, and it’s not clear whether it will pass there.

What is clear, though, is that the Governor will veto it if it gets to him.

Illinois’ state government is completely broken, which isn’t news to anyone who lives here (the two sides will just argue over *how* it’s broken, not *if*). The fight over taxes and the budget is just another symptom of the problem.

A family making $100k/year would pay another $1,200/year in taxes if that gets through (I doubt it). That sucks, and I’m sure that a few people would move, but friends/family/work will keep most people here.

People walking away from houses is a different issue - they do it because they owe more than the house is worth, not because taxes went up. There are plenty of people all over the country facing that issue.

WilliamsSW > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:08

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It’s arson, not insurance fraud—would still get you in trouble.

shop-teacher > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:09

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You can often call your local fire department, and ask if they want to burn it down as a training exercise. Often they will. My buddy is thinking of buying a house, which has an old shed/outhouse (yes, it seriously has an outhouse) that he’d want to tear down. First he’s going to call the local FD to see if they want to burn it down.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn 07/03/2017 at 09:10

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Illinois hasn’t learned jack squat. They’re raising our taxes, but we’re entering year three without a budget, and our credit rating is a richly deserved “junk bond” status.

WilliamsSW > shop-teacher 07/03/2017 at 09:10

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Because of the tax hike, or other reasons?

We intend to stay here as long as our family is around / or we retire, but it sure is tempting to leave sometimes, but it’s not really the taxes driving that for us.

shop-teacher > WilliamsSW 07/03/2017 at 09:15

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I actually hadn’t even heard of the tax hike when we were talking about it. It’s because of our state’s complete inability to govern itself, coupled with the worst funded teacher pension system in the nation. I am actually a teacher, and as such I am not entitled to social security. Teachers don’t pay into the social security system, instead we pay nearly 10% of our income into the TRS (Teacher Retirement System). All I’ll have is my pension and whatever I can save on my own. That doesn’t seem like a smart bet these days, I’m not convinced I’ll ever see a dime of my 10% per year back.

PartyPooper2012 > WilliamsSW 07/03/2017 at 09:17

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even if fire department is on scene and knows you’re doing it

I can understand if you burn down something that does not belong to you. sure. But if it’s yours and you don’t want it anymore and call fire department to make them aware. Get them on scene. Control the fire etc... I don’t see how that’s a problem.

WilliamsSW > LongbowMkII 07/03/2017 at 09:17

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Very true - but in Illinois, the problem is that the bill for the cost of all of the corruption and waste (in both freaking parties - we send blue and red governors to jail without discrimination) of the last XX decades is coming due. So, the money has already been wasted. :/

PartyPooper2012 > WilliamsSW 07/03/2017 at 09:19

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There are tons of people moving from CT to FL. Same with NJ and NY. All moving to states where taxes are lower or non existent (have a different form of tax)

WilliamsSW > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:19

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Doh, I missed the part about involving the FD from the get go. If that’s the case, then sure, you’re good to go as long as they’re in command over what/how the burn is going, so nothing else is endangered.

WilliamsSW > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:22

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Sure, and as I mentioned, some of them may be moving for tax reasons - there’s always a few. But given demographics, what percentage of those people are retiring and moving to FL for the weather, with the added bonus of the tax benefit?

Lots of people are moving to CA, too - that’s certainly not for tax reasons. People re-locate all the time, for many different reasons.

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher 07/03/2017 at 09:25

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I was just reading this morning how that douchebag Chris Christie has shut down the government in NJ while trying to strong-arm money from an insurance company. Do you remember when politicians actually worked together to solve problems? Now it’s, “If I don’t get my way I’m taking my toys and going home.” Politicians are acting like spoiled 4-year-olds.

LongbowMkII > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:27

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Illinois is no stranger to corruption I know. But I don’t think this’ll cause a mass exodus. And if it does, the lower housing costs will more than offset the taxes if I were looking to move.

boredalways > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:31

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This is why I chose Indianapolis over going back to Chi-town 10.5 years ago after leaving the Bay Area.

If you consider yourself a F.I.B., it takes a little over 2 hours to reach the city limits on I-65. That is if you can navigate patiently around the idiot drivers that cause almost all of the accidents.

WilliamsSW > shop-teacher 07/03/2017 at 09:31

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Ah, I don’t blame you - as I noted above, the tax hike is just another symptom of how mismanaged our state government is.

It’s twisted, but passing the tax hike might actually be good news for you, in a sense - - without them doing *something* to start getting their finances in order, I’m afraid it leads to bankruptcy. And that’s where anyone with a state pension gets screwed.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn 07/03/2017 at 09:33

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Well put. I know I wouldn’t take this kind of crap from my 4-year old.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:38

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Far fewer than you would imagine. The idea of “millionaire migration,” is a myth pushed to keep taxes low. Empirical data shows that while it happens, it’s very, very rare. People stay where their families, jobs, and lives are. When they migrate state to state it’s either for a better opportunity, or for retirement.

facw > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:40

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Not many I’d guess. Tax burdens are still historically pretty low, and it’s not like there’s already a bad rush to move to states without state income tax. Those taxes don’t just vanish into thin air, they pay for desirable (and yes, sometime undesirable) civic services. Paying an extra 1-2% to Illinois is probably still the better choice for most people. There are a lot of reasons why Detroit died, and high taxes are not anywhere near the most important (if anything they are more of a symptom than a cause, though there is a bit of a vicious cycle).

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 09:51

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“According to the survey, the top destinations for people moving out of Connecticut were Florida, California, Texas, North Carolina and Massachusetts.”

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-united-van-lines-people-leaving-connecticut-20170103-story.html

I would disagree that it is soley based on taxes, with California and Mass.  

“We are seeing more retirees than ever decide to relocate, and as a result, new retirement hubs are popping up in Western states,” Michael Stoll, economist, professor and chair of the Department of Public Policy at the University of California, Los Angeles said in a written statement accompanying the survey results.”

the people i know leaving, fall into 3 categories, kids going off to college and staying in the area, people semi-retiring, or people full retiring and moving to florida.

Khalbali > shop-teacher 07/03/2017 at 11:08

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When we left it was basically anywhere but Indiana so 46 states to choose from. But Denver is too expensive so we just came back Saturday and it sucks again.

shop-teacher > Khalbali 07/03/2017 at 11:12

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With two little kids, I can’t afford to just pick up and take a chance. I’d need to have a job set, and know my income and my budget before I could ever pull the trigger.

Khalbali > shop-teacher 07/03/2017 at 11:23

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Yeah definitely a much different situation for you, I was just waiting tables back then and just a wife and dog no kids. And it still didn’t work out 3 years later we’re right back in elgin.

wkiernan > PartyPooper2012 07/03/2017 at 14:32

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Let me guess what happened. Guys ran for state office saying taxes are too high and we will stimulate the economy by giving out an ALEC-approved tax cut to everybody . Those guys got elected, because a.) who likes paying taxes? and b.) a majority of American voters can’t do arithmetic. Then the legislature issued a huge tax cut for millionaires and corporations, combined with a tax cut of less than 0.5% for people with median incomes, combined with no significant cut in state expenses.

After running through all the reserves accumulated by previous administration, and all the short-term temporizing accounting tricks they could come up with, they had to start laying off teachers and policemen and closing schools and public facilities, while maintenance of basic necessities like roads and sewer systems was reduced to emergency levels and the credit status of the state was lowered to junk bond degrees.

Finally the few adults in the legislature revolted and forced the state to raise the tax level to where it could pay for the services the citizens demand. For a while, the schools will stay open and the highway bridges, we hope, will not fall into the rivers. For this offense those adults will be severely punished in the next election.

Mercedes Streeter > shop-teacher 07/03/2017 at 20:12

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Illinois: “Hey we’re going to build the interstates into superhighways, it’s totes going to help traffic. We just ask you to pay toll to pay for it. No worries, we’ll remove the tolls when the projects are finished.”

*Projects complete*

“Hey, so you know how we said that we’d take down those tollbooths? Well I mean, they make us a lot of money so..........we’re just going to keep them up then raise the tolls. And nooo, we aren’t going to spend it on anything productive. “

jimz > PartyPooper2012 07/06/2017 at 10:43

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that’s not what’s going on in Detroit. a lot of those properties were bought up by out-of-state “investors” and rented out for a while (at which point they turn into absentee slumlords.) Then the property sits vacant, gets damaged/destroyed, and the owner just tries to shed them as quickly as possible.

and don’t let the $1 listing price fool you. most of these are also horribly in arrears on property taxes, which the buyer will end up on the hook for. So that $1 house is more like $4000.