Things that annoy me.

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
05/29/2017 at 01:08 • Filed to: None

I love the B5.5 Passat wagon. Such a damn good looking car. Pity they’re such huge unreliable pieces of utter shit.

God damn, just look at it.

Yeah yeah. It’s a B5. But look at those wheels.

^I’ll take that color with the W8 pls. And a bumper to bumper warranty. And a manual.

DISCUSSION (31)

AestheticsInMotion > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/29/2017 at 01:39

At the end of the day, if you’re going to roll the dice on an unreliable car, why settle for a Passat?

RallyWrench > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/29/2017 at 01:48

But they’re not unreliable. The V6 is damn near impossible to kill if you maintain it, and even the automatics are good for 200k+ if serviced. The 1.8t can be a bit of a nightmare, but other than that they’re not bad. The front suspension is weak if roads are less than perfect, they leak oil, and stuff like window regulators are annoying, but they’re hardly unreliable. Maybe in the Consumer Reports sense, where malfunctioning dome lights is the end of the world, but they don’t often leave people stranded. I’d drive a 2.8 manual wagon, no questions asked.

Hoccy > RallyWrench
05/29/2017 at 02:54

A friend of mine had a 1.8T that once in a while decided to not start, one of the times when someone was looking at it in order to buy it. Don’t know how many suspension parts he went through either, and the windows didn’t work 90 % of the time. He still drove that car well over 330 000 km...

Amoore100 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/29/2017 at 03:23

What scares me is that a midcycle facelift and refresh is supposed to make a car better, but VW somehow made the B5.5 just as unreliable (if not moreso) than the B5. You stay you, VAG! I will agree that B5.5 estates look amazing, though.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/29/2017 at 04:28

The diesels are really solid, not sure if Muricaland got them.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/29/2017 at 05:31

that’s why i’ll never touch any VW group product.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > RallyWrench
05/29/2017 at 06:17

I had a V6 who loved to eat through fuel pumps. Usually when I was 150+ miles from home in the middle of the desert.

bhtooefr > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
05/29/2017 at 07:32

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yes, we got one, the BHW (2.0 PD, 134 hp), with a 5-speed automatic.

The automatics have mediocre reliability (IIRC they like to eat torque converters), but I mean, you could swap a manual in (requires changing the engine’s crankshaft , though, to fit a dual mass flywheel, to not grenade the 6-speed with diesel vibrations (and a 5-speed doesn’t have appropriate gearing for this engine)).

But, the engines themselves have fragile camshafts (as all SOHC PDs do, though, and it’s not a huge deal if you just run 5W40 oil at all times, and never allow a 5W30 in the engine, even though there’s approved 5W30s). Worse, they’ve also got Volkswagen’s first attempt at a balance shaft module. It’s mounted where the oil pump used to be, and chain driven... and the chain was never meant for those kinds of loads, so it wears out. Then, there’s a hex shaft that goes from the balance shaft module to the oil pump, and that wears out with the shock loadings that the chain allows. Upshot is, with the original balance shaft module setup, odds are good that either the hex shaft or chain will fail, and the oil pump will just stop.

You can retrofit the gear driven balance shaft module off of a newer 2.0 TDI, and it prevents chain failure and reduces hex shaft failure, but it’s still a thing. Alternately, you can delete the balance shaft module altogether using parts from a Mk5 1.9 TDI, but there’s obviously a vibration penalty you pay doing that.

Basically, the diesels we got were unreliable pieces of shit with critical design flaws.

bhtooefr > Hoccy
05/29/2017 at 07:33

One problem with the suspension is... the Chinese parts wore out really quickly, so once you started replacing parts, if you didn’t get quality replacements, you were rebuilding the suspension every 10,000 miles.

Svend > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/29/2017 at 07:47

Is there really such disparity between U.S. And E.U. VAG cars?

The same being for American cars.

These cars seem to be well known reliable solid cars in their home markets yet when they cross the ocean they are known for being attractive or stylish yet absolute pigs to live with and maintain.

Of all the VAG cars (SEAT, Skoda, VW and Audi) I’ve known and/or had friends and neighbours with, none have had more issues than any other car (Toyota, Mercedes, Kia, etc...), sure you get the occasional fault here and there but nothing to what I hear coming out of the U.S.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Svend
05/29/2017 at 07:59

That’s what puzzles me. None of the people I know have had any mayor faults with their VAG cars, except for one classmate who had to get a new engine but it was the repair shop’s fault.

duurtlang > Svend
05/29/2017 at 08:10

I know people, plenty of them, who’ve had serious problems with VAG cars. Mostly with somewhat modern cars though, early TSI engine and DSG gearbox problems come to mind. Costly too. But the B5.5 Passat? Or the mk4 Golf? Cockroaches, they have some faults (like window regulators) and not every engine is a gem but generally speaking they seem to last forever. Especially the diesels and the lower tech gas engines. I still see lots of them and many have astronomical kms.

I believe the Americans get sub par stuff from Mexico or the US, buy the too complex stuff (W8 in a Passat?), have to deal with specific US market ‘updates’ and modifications that don’t improve reliability or simply don’t understand maintenance.

Having said all that, I personally avoid post mk4 Golf VAG vehicles like the plague.

Svend > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem
05/29/2017 at 08:22

Ye’, the B5 and B5.5 were all built in Germany for the west-E.U. and America if I’m right and Chine, Ukraine and Slovakia for the rest of the world (though could be wrong) so I don’t see why they should be so different in reliability.

Granted it could be down to our stringent E.U. laws on vehicle compliance, which wouldn’t be the manufacturers fault.

A neighbour had one of the last Skoda Superb Mk1 s. Great car. I can remember going down to Bolton in it to swap it for a BMW E46 coupe.

Svend > duurtlang
05/29/2017 at 08:32

I heard early TSi engines and DSG boxes had issues and certain PD units too but never any real big issue, just new technology teething issues that were soon rectified after a trip or two to the garage or VW recall.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Svend
05/29/2017 at 08:34

Faulty power windows and horrible soft plastic materials in some places are problems they all have in common but besides that, nothing much that I can think of. I guess we just take better care of our cars on this side of the pond.

I know many people who swear by VAG products and just about everyone has driven a Golf or Polo in their lifetime. Too bad I don’t really see that many MK 1 Superbs anymore.

duurtlang > Svend
05/29/2017 at 08:38

Out of warranty cars didn’t have that fortune though. My friend has an early mk6 Golf with a TSI and what she had to pay to get that prematurely stretched timing chain redone (and nothing else) was akin to what I spend for about 100k km of all-in maintenance (tires, belts, fluids, brakes, everything ) for my Peugeot 406.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Svend
05/29/2017 at 08:59

With American cars of that era, not everything always worked, but it would get you there without a lick of maintenance. We would rather have a really shoddily put together pile of shit that at least runs for an incredibly low cost, than something nice that requires maintenance.

Svend > duurtlang
05/29/2017 at 09:05

Ouch.

I’ve known people with Fords have much more issues.

One had just bought a limited edition at the time, Ford Mondeo Verona. The engine did less than 1,000 miles and the engine imploded. Ford blamed the owner and the dealership, the dealership blamed Ford and the owner it went round in circles for ages before Ford and the dealership split the bill and had a new engine put in which at the time was just over £6,000 (Alan, the owner did tell me the total cost at the time but it was a few years ago).

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > AestheticsInMotion
05/29/2017 at 10:36

This. My plan when I get a decent job is to buy a first gen Cayman from CarMax with a Max Care warranty, because I figure if I spend more than $9k on a car I want a bumper to bumper warranty, and if I have a bumper to bumper warranty I want a car that is gonna make that warranty worth it

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Svend
05/29/2017 at 10:40

The biggest problem with VAG cars in the US is the much smaller repair network for the insane complexity of these cars, and thus any minor fault because hideously expensive to fix. My dad’s B5.5 was a TDI and it was... ALRIGHT except for a propensity to eat CV axles (went through 4 in 3 years somehow) but there are only two mechanics in town that will touch the things because even routine maintenance takes such a damn long time.

And the unreasonable complexity of VW engines just astounds me. The timing system, for example. A belt drives one camshaft which then has an entire chain and tensioner system just to drive the other camshaft, and if that tensioner fails my VW mechanic friend says the head is considered a loss and a new one has to be bought. Thermostat in a Golf/Beetle? Takes HOURS and requires the removal of a simply stupid amount of stuff.

TL;DR they might not be objectively worse than other cars as far as breakdowns per mile but the complexity and difficulty of repairing them makes the actual cost of ownership simply unreasonable.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
05/29/2017 at 10:41

My dad had a B5.5 Passat TDI wagon. It would enter limp mode on the highway for absolutely no reason, usually at the worst possible time. Mechanics could never figure it out. This is considered “normal” by my other VW-owning friends

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > RallyWrench
05/29/2017 at 10:43

Even if they were just as reliable as any other car the increased complexity and difficulty of repair combined with the fact most shops won’t TOUCH VAG products on a bet means that you’re paying many times more for the same repair. Even my VW-addict friends will admit that simple maintenance like replacing the thermostat on a Golf/Jetta/Beetle is unnecessarily difficult.

Also, electrical issues. My dad’s B5.5 TDI would lose power and go into limp mode on the highway for absolutely no reason about once every three months. No mechanic could figure out why and from what I’ve heard this is just considered ‘normal’.

jkm7680 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/29/2017 at 11:31

The 30v 2.8 wasn’t unreliable at all.

You could get a PES G2 supercharger kit for them also.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > jkm7680
05/29/2017 at 11:46

The engines themselves, in a vacuum, may not be terribly unreliable. They are, however, complex and difficult to repair on your own and many shops (around here, at least) will refuse to touch them. Furthermore, electrical issues. My dad’s B5.5 would randomly go into limp mode on the highway requiring a complete key off key on several times before it would start working properly again. No tech could ever figure it out and my dad’s research indicated this is a common, normal issue.

Common and normal. For the car to just curl up in the fetal position on the highway.

For what it’s worth he utterly loved his car, 40mpg out of a large diesel wagon that could swallow two mountain bikes but he stalwartly refused to get another VW product.

Of course, now he has a 2012 Taurus and it’s a huge pile of shit so I think he just kinda sucks at buying cars due to his ridiculous requirements that a car do absolutely everything he would ever need it to do. Buying a car that can do cross-country road trips (that will happen maybe once per year) and then spending 99% of its time tooling back and forth to work is idiotic. Rent a minivan for road trips. Get a damn Fusion hybrid or some shit to commute in. Or a Malibu.

But I digress.

Yeah. VAG. Blech.

jkm7680 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/29/2017 at 11:54

The 12v in the A4 with the manual was better than the 30v with the automatic. My 12v did 140k and nearly 20 years without a single major issue. Timing belt change and other wear items were the only things that ever went wrong. Original clutch, transmission, engine. One of the best cars Audi ever made from a reliability standpoint.

The 30v did have transmission issues, most of my knowledge comes from the A6 Avant and A4s though.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > bhtooefr
05/29/2017 at 12:06

Hmm I wonder what we got over here then. They were used commonly as taxis and there are a lot of high milers for sale. Our used cars are so cheap that expensive repairs usually cause them to be scrapped, so their survival usually means they havent had an expensive failure.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/29/2017 at 12:07

We had that with our Laguna and it turned out to be a constantly clogging EGR. Just disabled it in the end.

bhtooefr > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
05/29/2017 at 12:28

You’ve got a few factors going on.

First off, you don’t have many automatics (removing that failure mode), and the manual 2.0 8v PDs and the 1.9s didn’t have a balance shaft module, entirely removing the most expensive failure mode. The camshafts are still an issue for you, though, as I understand.

Second, your mechanics see a lot more of them, so they know how to work on them, and it’s not a specialty thing. Even our dealers have no idea how to work on them, and you’ve got a few specialty mechanics scattered around the country, to the point that... for some jobs, I have to drive hundreds of miles to get to a mechanic that’s both competent and willing/able to do the work. (I know someone who works out of his garage and lives 20 minutes away, but there’s a lot of jobs that he straight-up refuses to do.) Basically, imagine if you had to drive to a shop in Germany to get a competent full-service mechanic for a TDI, from the UK - that’s the kind of distances many of us in the US have to deal with. Or, I can go to an incompetent, and come out with a car that’s more broken than I started with.

Third, parts availability is far better for you, meaning things can be bought cheaply, not special ordered from Europe, or sold at a mark-up by VW.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > bhtooefr
05/30/2017 at 13:41

That all makes a lot of sense, although I’m surprised it’s that hard to find a mechanic who will touch them. Even shite mechanics here work on diesels and yeah they’re way more common here but you guys have had diesel pickups for ages.

bhtooefr > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
05/30/2017 at 14:45

The problem is that you’ve got a few kinds of mechanics.

You’ve got shitty mechanics, many of which will happily take your money to break your car.

You’ve got dealer mechanics, which... VW is not good about making sure they have a clue, and they’re not great about making sure they actually use the resources available to them, as I understand. I know multiple (good) mechanics that burned out of the dealer environment. So, you pay even more to get them to break your car, because they’re not that familiar with it.

You’ve got good shadetree mechanics, but they’re often not equipped to do a lot of jobs.

Finally, you’ve got good full-service independent mechanics. The TDIs are rare enough, though, that I can count the number of those on my hands, and probably only one hand (I can only think of six or so full-service mechanics in all of North America that I’d expect to be able to fix anything wrong with a TDI properly - I can think of many more mechanics that aren’t full-service, but can at least do regular maintenance and some troubleshooting properly).

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > bhtooefr
05/30/2017 at 14:48

I’ve never personally found a good mechanic so I tend to tar them all with the same brush. I know they exist, but I just can’t seem to find them.