Holy Branded Titles!

"jasmits" (jasmits) 05/01/2017 at 11:52 • Filed to: None

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As people do around here I was window shoppingCraigslist with no real intention to buy, just curious what the pricing on the BRZ/FRS twins is looking like these days. Half the cars listed have rebuilt or branded titles!

Jeez, I mean I get these cars really sold to the young boy-racer clientele(if I’m honest, I’m pretty much their target demographic, 20s and likes cars) who are certainly at a higher risk of accidents and many may be having their first experience with RWD but it’s not like they have gobs of power to keep in a straight line. What gives?

CalzoneGolem > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 11:54

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Prius tires.

jimz > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 11:59

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its a car supposedly set up for “drifting,” sold to people who don’t know how to drift and don’t know drifting is not something you do on public roads.

oh, and they probably beat the piss out of them too.

Rico > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:01

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Maybe that’s the problem with a low power car, they’re always trying to drive it at 9/10ths to get anywhere.

jasmits > CalzoneGolem 05/01/2017 at 12:03

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Yeah, 215/45 is pretty small but I run 225/50 on my E36 Compact and grip has never been an issue, yeah it’s down 50 horses but there were some pretty garbage tires on it when I first picked it up. I’m running the standard wheels from an E46 with the largest size that fits, it’s not like the E46 325i or 330i is known to be a huge accident risk and they shipped with 205s.

saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:06

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Kids who watch YouTube vloggers buy em, never change the oil and then crash them while driving fast or “drifting.”

Related story: Some dude was trying sell a Focus SVT with a rebuilt title for $4500 on Seattle Craigs for like two months. In emails, I got him to agree on $2500 as a starting price. So I get there and he tells me that the pictures were “pre-suicidal deer incident.” The entire driver’s side of the front end was smashed in and wonky from when he hit a deer. There was clearly frame damage and it should have been written off a second time.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:06

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Everyone crashes these. Hell, I crashed mine twice having never been in an accident before in my life. One was my own damn fault for trying to drive home from the track on slicks when the skies opened up, but the other I’m pretty damn sure was someone doing it intentionally under the impression that I had money and that it’s an expensive car.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > CalzoneGolem 05/01/2017 at 12:06

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You can’t underestimate the lack of grip from those awful tires.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > jimz 05/01/2017 at 12:07

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It’s really not. It pushes a bit first. Yeah, you can drift in it, but it’s got nothing on any given MR2 for surprise rear end escapades. The back doesn’t just pop out in these.

itschrome > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:07

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no, not just wheel size. they literally run the same tire as a prius. low rolling resistance with a tendency to break grip before they probably should. my buddy has one of these and had to ditch those tires once he got comfortable with the car because he was worried about crashing on them.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:11

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It’s not the size, it’s just the compound. They’re hockey-puck hard. Weirdly, they still don’t last.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Rico 05/01/2017 at 12:13

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I thought that was the point of a low power car. The problem here is it’s also a low grip car. Those low rolling resistance tires are garbage. The stock tires on my Fit Sport are stickier.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:14

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I’ve also noticed this, and half of them are running a turbo or supercharger as well.

jasmits > itschrome 05/01/2017 at 12:15

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I get that but when I bought my E36 it had nearly-bald 215 All-Seasons, like you need to use common sense in the rain especially but skinnyish tires a bit lacking in grip won’t turn a low-power RWD car into a spinout machine.

jasmits > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 05/01/2017 at 12:18

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Yeah, those are very accessible for these which make them great if you want to hone your driving skills on a low-powered car and then build the car with your skill but I think a lot of people are too impatient to make more power

Rico > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 05/01/2017 at 12:27

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True but now you’ve got people who are getting BRZ/FRS as their first vehicle because of price, they are now driving at 9/10ths just going point A to point B with little margin for error.

Another issue is the majority of the “slow car fast” category are not BRZ/FRS/Miata and don’t handle nearly as well. Often this puts the person driving at 9/10ths in a position in which their car is not really set up for.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:28

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I have been contending since before I bought my car that I’d have the last Focus ST without a branded title in about 10 years, so it might actually appreciate due to the incredible rarity of an original/stock example that hasn’t been in a totaling crash.

Most have been modded within an inch of their lives (and quite a few beyond, with blown engines a regular occurrence), too.

Seriously, the forums and facebook groups are almost half pictures of wrecked cars. “Oops, missed a turn!”, “Slid out on summers. :(”, etc.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:32

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They’re LRR tires they also put on the Prius, except the car is RWD and the buyers of these cars are a bunch of vape bros that would do a burnout in them as they leave cars and coffee. Much like my car, these attract and are bought by the basest of man-children.

itschrome > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:32

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it does with a moron behind the wheel!

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 05/01/2017 at 12:36

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Yeah, but those LRR tires also give it that “tail happy” feeling that reviewers seemed to love on the track, even though it was slow.

Then you have my car, which they also loved, but grips like crazy...until the temperature drops below 50, then they’re hard as hockey pucks and everyone slides into something because they didn’t realize that summer tires means you need to buy winters when it gets cold.

I also believe the reason that the Mustang meme came about is that they’re too cheap, too powerful, and people buying them only have experience with FWD cars, so they don’t know how to handle a car when the tail starts coming around on them.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/01/2017 at 12:37

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I kind of want to drive one of these (MR2) to see if it’s really as bad as people claim.

jasmits > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 05/01/2017 at 12:38

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Fair enough, and those even have the FWD safety net

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 05/01/2017 at 12:41

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I ended up backwards in a bush once because I was making a left turn in the rain and dropped the clutch too hard without rev-matching. Wasn’t pushing, just unsettled the car in normal driving. It’s just counterintuitive. You cannot lift and start a turn at the same time and have to be aware of that. It’s a bit easier to manage once you put a sway bar on since it ends up being more progressive, but without it’s an on-off switch. You have all of the grip in the world until you don’t have any. It’s not a drift machine since it’s not terribly forgiving, but anyone who can consistently drift one on tarmac is a hero.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 12:54

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Yeah. I can’t fathom the likelihood of a wreck in a RWD car with LRR tires, especially driven by someone that has probably never driven one.

That said, while the FoST is a front-engine front-drive car, they have really dramatic lift-off oversteer like rear-engine rear-drive cars starting around 7/10ths (a saving grace is that 7/10ths is beyond what most reasonable drivers would feel confident doing in them and requires driving way above a posted speed limit). This is, thankfully, mitigated somewhat by the extremely sticky tires the car comes with (but those eventually become a liability because they turn to hard plastic around 40 degrees, so you see these crazy pictures of cars that spun clear around to smack a curb sideways when someone tries to turn them in cold weather or on snow). It’s one of the weirdest cars I’ve ever driven - when the tail starts stepping out, you need to get on the gas , not off it, to maintain control. Other than this and the heavier steering, it is so well balanced and sufficiently-tail-happy that the drive wheels are not obvious.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars 05/01/2017 at 12:56

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That is positively ridiculous. These people selling junk on CL up here.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/01/2017 at 13:01

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I need to make a turn because it’s second nature, but I feel like I lift, brake (if necessary), then apply power as I’m entering a turn in my cars (FWD and RWD). Whatever I do, I know it transfers weight to the front tires for the turn, then transfers weight to the rear as I’m exiting the corner.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 05/01/2017 at 13:15

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I guess it’s ultimately the same as any other car. You don’t want to drop the clutch on entry (though I guess this would only really get you more understeer in FWD), but it’s just how much more it responds to that that makes it tricky and able to catch someone off-guard. It’s definitely accentuated vs FF or FR. Alternatively, on the track it’s gold because near the limit you’re steering with your right foot and slight feathering makes a big difference with regards to front end bite. Too much turn-in? Just jam the throttle and let the front push a bit. Not enough? Let off a tiny bit and watch the front come back, but you always want to be on the power when turning. No sway bar makes it push a tiny bit near the limit, but only to a point. Once you brute-force it, you have a pendulum swinging behind you and once you get grip back, it fies in the other direction.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 13:20

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It’s been proven that time is relative. I believe power is as well. As you stated; many of these cars are the first foray into a RWD car or a car at all for many younger drivers. I actually envy them. When I was 17 there was the fox Mustang, and tuned port Camaro; good on power, but my parents weren’t buying me a new car. NONONONONONO! I had to save up and pay for it myself. I wasn’t into having a car payment. This limited my choices to basically heavier 2+2 coupes or 2nd generation Camaros (which I viewed as hideous at the time). I looked at a 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix with a V8. A 307 cubic inch V8 with a whopping 140 horsepower. It needed more work than I was willing to do at the asking price. Fast forward to the 1978 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe I bought for 800 bucks. Olds 350, 3400 pounds according to the NYS reg (which means 3700 with fluids and gas) and 170 horsepower. It was more than most people in my age bracket had. Now 200 horsepower in a lighter car is considered less than adequate. Perhaps a major difference is the fact that RWD was much more prevalent. I never got into an accident in that car or my nest RWD car. I was driving for almost a decade before my first accident and that car lives today. I attribute that in part to properly being trained on HOW to drive with RWD.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 13:29

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Exactly.

AfromanGTO > CalzoneGolem 05/01/2017 at 14:01

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They make it easier to slide around corners. Intentional from the factory. lol

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > jasmits 05/01/2017 at 14:21

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Wonder how much insurance on these things runs compared to an STI.

CalzoneGolem > AfromanGTO 05/01/2017 at 15:01

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Around the corner/Over the curb/Into a stationary object.

jasmits > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 05/01/2017 at 15:03

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I’m curious how it’d compare to like a Mustang GT or Camaro SS, the Mustang and Camaro should be a lot more because they’re both more expensive and a lot more powerful but it actually seems like FRS and BRZ have even worse accident records

Dusty Ventures > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/01/2017 at 20:13

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The BRZ pushes, the FRS slides.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 05/01/2017 at 20:32

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I response to this when I was shopping for a new car my limit was $20k. The BRZ was slightly above that but I priced it out for insurance and for a ‘03 C5Z we had on the used lot going for about the same price. So the Corvette has twice the HP, half the seats, but 12 years older. For a 23 year old that meant insurance was less than 1/2 as much as the BRZ was a month for a $500/$500 coverage.... Yeah because they classify it as a sports car. It was ridiculous.