FCA has a problem

"LJ909" (lj909) 04/27/2017 at 16:28 • Filed to: None

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And its with betting on their money makers: Jeep, Ram, SRT products and American Muscle and having cars that are long in the tooth. Don’t get me wrong. I love it just as much as you guys. Hell I would even buy one. But from a corporate perspective, long term, that gift horse is going to come back and bite them. Take for a moment to consider the position each brand is in.

Chrysler, which I consider as THE brand of FCA is in a terrible position as I have pointed out before. With the loss of the 200 its just a 2 vehicle line up: the recently introduced Pacifica and Pacifica Plug in Hybrid, and the still competitive but old 300. The 300 still sells pretty good. Last year it sold a little over 53 thousand units. Pretty good considering its pretty much the only big RWD V8 powered American luxury sedan on the market. But if FCA’s recent product plan from last year is in indication, the lineup is going to stay the way it is for awhile. From what I saw, nothing new for the 300 through the end of the decade and on into 2020. There had been rumors that it was going to use some form of the Pacifica’s platform but I would take that with a grain of salt. There were also shown in product plans some sort of large crossover for Chrysler, but nothing has been said about that.

Dodge’s lineup is way healthier than Chrysler, but in reality every single vehicle they have that’s currently on sale is old. And considering where we are now in 2017 it looks like their product plan isn’t being followed. On top of that most of Dodge’s sales are bolstered by the old but fantastic and insane Charge/Challanger and their V8 variants. Mostly everything needs a redesign or a refresh here.

Jeep and Ram as we all know are the cash cows for FCA and this is where they have been putting all their money lately. So technically there’s no problem here. But...

If you notice, outside of the Fiat 500e and the Pacifica Plug in, the company as a whole has no other EV’s or Hybrids. Not only that, but with the failure of the 200/Dart, they have seemed to all but given up the small car/midsize game, which would have been great for a plug in or a hybrid.

Look I want FCA to do good by Chrysler. They have been my favorite brand since I was a kid. And with their history the past 25 or so years of getting screwed by Daimler and Cerberus they need to succeed. But the way Sergio is doing things makes me think otherwise. Gas wont be cheap forever. When it goes back up, they wont be able to look to Ram and Jeep to save them, nor to their performance Dodge models. They need to get their shit together or we will see Chrysler go down again. And this time, I don’t think they’ll be getting back up.

Honeybunchesofgoats > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 16:35

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I don’t see Dodge/Chrysler ever shaking its reputation for poor quality. Sure, Jeeps are shitty, but no one cares.

Short of going full Hyundai/Kia, which they won’t, they’re both dead brands rolling.

Sweet Trav > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 16:37

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And water is wet..

LJ909 > Honeybunchesofgoats 04/27/2017 at 16:41

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Aside from a few encounters with Sebring’s, Neons and Avengers over the years, I’ve never really had or experienced anyone with shit show quality from their Chrysler products. Even my grandmother, who drove an 88 K Car based New Yorker up until 2011 had no problems and that car lasted to about 130 thousand miles.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 16:42

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I would have to imagine the Chrysler brand will need to die. The 300 and Pacifica could both just be Dodges and that would simplify things. Throw in a small car on a Fiat platform and then there are at least some options.

Or just keep Hellcatting everything and watch the world burn, that is fine too. Hellcat Fiata needs to be the next big thing!

LJ909 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/27/2017 at 16:45

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I thought that as well but I wouldn’t kill Chrysler. American near luxury and luxury cant just be Lincoln, Buick and Cadillac. If they actually invested in the brand I think we could see some real competitors out of them. A larger than 300 sedan, some sort of compact and a crossover might help. Hell even give them a personal luxury coupe based off the 300.

Chariotoflove > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 16:48

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I agree that FCA isn’t doing right by Chrysler, or really Dodge for that matter. I think putting all their eggs in the CUV/SUV basket is going to haunt them eventually. I didn’t understand the move to exit the mid-size sedan market. That’s still a huge market, and they were selling significant numbers of cars, even if they were lagging behind the big boys. I would have thought the answer would be to improve the offerings. The 200 and Dart have plenty going for them. No wonder no one want to merge with FCA when they make business decisions like these.

LJ909 > Chariotoflove 04/27/2017 at 16:54

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I dont understand why they gave up so fast on the mid size sedan market either. And a lot of the hate that the Dart/200 got I think was bandwagon hate. I drove a 200S v6 once and was impressed. I just didnt understand why buyers didint bite. Had they invested in it and gave it a major refresh I think it could have won people over. But they gave up. Even now, I know a few Chrysler Dodge dealers that still have tons of 200's and Darts sitting on lots used with no one buying them. Some with low low miles.

Chariotoflove > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 16:59

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Agreed. I heard that the base engine was a dog? But, there were engine options, and the car looked good inside and out. Remember that the Dart won one of Ward’s 10 best interiors. That should have been worth something.

Honeybunchesofgoats > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:00

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I believe it, but I think the reputation is going to be hard to shake, despite never owning one.

But I’m really touchy about that sort of thing anyway. My first car was a 90s Camaro, and the quality was so garbage that there are few things as guaranteed as the fact that I will never ever own anything made by GM ever again. I mean, I daily a Jag and that thing made Jag build quality look good.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/27/2017 at 17:00

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Supercharged 350hp, 3.1L OHV 4 cylinder? 124 Halfcat

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:01

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It’s almost as if Sergio is playing the short game here ;). He doesn’t give a shit about the long term effects on Chrysler. He’s going to get the company in a good cash position and sell it, or merge it and take his money and run. Sadly, FCA is just as bad as the previous two owners were. He’s only interested in Alfa, not Chrysler.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:03

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Dodge has unfortunately pigeonholed themselves into a very deep hole. The aggressive “man’s man” attitude and styling no doubt saved the company in the mid 2000’s but now they’re stuck making cars like that. Any sort of “normal” car they try to make now will be too much of a break from the brand image they’ve cultivated and won’t sell.

LJ909 > Chariotoflove 04/27/2017 at 17:03

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Yea the base 4 was gutless. Not even good enough for rental car duty. But thats what the majority of them came with. Even now, if you look for some used, you’re going to find the 4 cylinder model.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:04

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i thought the next gen 300,charger, and challenger were all moving to the gulia platformin the next few years like i thought they announced that in their shareholder meeting or whatever when they showed the timeline of all the future products

LJ909 > Honeybunchesofgoats 04/27/2017 at 17:04

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I will never ever own anything made by GM ever again. I mean, I daily a Jag and that thing made Jag build quality look good.

Thats saying a lot, because the Jag I had was shit.

LJ909 > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 04/27/2017 at 17:05

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I feel this way too. Look at how desperate he was for a merger that no one was remotely interested in. I dont get it. He is only interested in Alfa and to a lesser extant Maserati, and even that is not going well.

Honeybunchesofgoats > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:06

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You had an S-Type R, right? I’m afraid nothing is ever going to dissuade me from wanting one of those. I know I’ve never seen anyone speak positively of them, but man, every time I see one, I want that retro grille

LJ909 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/27/2017 at 17:07

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Exactly. If they were to say go white bread vanilla mainstream like Toyota, it wouldnt work. The Charger/Challenger pretty much shaped the face of the brand during the last decade. Now those 2 models pretty much carry not only the persona of the brand but most of the sales.

LJ909 > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 04/27/2017 at 17:08

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I remember them or someone mentioning it. But if you do a little digging online, you don’t see anything about it anymore. Those rumors, along with the 100 compact that Chrysler was supposed to get, quietly disappeared.

LJ909 > Honeybunchesofgoats 04/27/2017 at 17:10

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Yea that was me. I wanted to love and keep that car but it was a shit show. So British, powerful and rare, but so full of problems and expensive. I remember one insurance company would insurance the car because of its “rarity” and it was going to coast me $156 a month just in insurance.

gawdzillla > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:13

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FCA has many problems, i wonder why they are still around , and why Mopar guys still swears by them

they are just as bad, if not worse than VW

gawdzillla > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:13

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FCA has many problems, i wonder why they are still around , and why Mopar guys still swears by them

they are just as bad, if not worse than VW

LJ909 > gawdzillla 04/27/2017 at 17:17

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If you’ve ever driven a Charger or Challenger SRT or even a basic R/T Hemi you would understand. I wouldn’t go so far as to compare them to VW though.

Honeybunchesofgoats > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:17

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For what it’s worth, that’s cheap by the standards of insurance in New Jersey.

LongbowMkII > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:28

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the 9spd transmissions are apparently unreliable

Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 17:33

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Doooooooooooooomed.

Disclaimer: Chrysler is one of my least favorite manufacturers, even though I own a classic Mopar.

shop-teacher > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 18:25

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Yeah, they are in a very bad spot. If they sell off Jeep, it’s all over but the crying.

RT > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 18:40

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There’s also the other half of FCA.

Fiat, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Maserati and Ferrari (sort of).

Some of those brands are doing pretty well in other parts of the world, while the less successful ones have different problems or have important models under development (see Alfa Romeo and Maserati).

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 19:10

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Things aren’t all that bad. They have a lot coming out very soon:

http://www.allpar.com/model/upcoming.html

http://www.allpar.com/model/upcoming-trucks.html

The biggest problem with the Chrysler brand isn’t the loss of the 200... it’s the lack of crossovers. They need to get a line of small, medium and large crossovers.

However, in the 2018-2019 time frame, the Chrysler brand is getting a mid size and full size crossovers... so some of that big issue will get fixed soon. 

I think they should have kept the PT Cruiser around and updated it into a small-crossover thingie.

Also the Dodge/Chrysler full size cars are getting updated engines in 2019 and an all new model in 2020 or 2021.

Dodge needs crossovers too... and they have one in the form of the Dodge Journey... which still sells reasonably well in spite of being old and quite un-Dodge (according to what FCA says they want Dodge to be).

However, the Dodge Journey is getting a big update in 2018 and will become a RWD based CUV.

And for Jeep... the new Compass has just arrived, the Cherokee gets updated next year, the Grand Cherokee gets a Hellcat version next year, new Wrangler arriving in 2018, Wrangler pickup coming in 2019 and a full sized Jeep Grand Wagoneer coming in 2019.

.As for EVs and hybrids, yeah they’re light in that area. But Sergio is only gonna build those if he can make big fat profits on them. Putting resources into a Pacifica hybrid? Sure.

Fiat 500e? Nah... they lose money on that. Sergio doesn’t like spending money on anything that doesn’t make money. FCA has the resources, tech and know-how to make more BEVs and hybrids... but they don’t because they don’t deem it necessary yet. And with Trump in office, it won’t be necessary for at least a few years.

But note that there will be other vehicles based on the Pacifica and Pacifica hybrid in the future.

And don’t forget... FCA does well with diesels... the smaller Ecodiesel as well as the diesel in the Promaster and the heavy duty trucks.

And apparently they’re looking at making even bigger commercial trucks.

The brand that is in the biggest trouble in North America is the Fiat brand. What they sell isn’t very high margin and isn’t selling well enough.

These last few years, FCA has been getting its shit together and the resulting product from that started coming out this year and will continue between now and 2022.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 04/27/2017 at 19:12

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They’re actually coming out with a 2L turbo called the Hurrican that makes 250-300hp.

shop-teacher > LJ909 04/27/2017 at 21:34

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Really? I’ve known several. My best friend bought a brand new ‘99 Dakota V6 ext cab 4x4. He absolutely babied that thing, and it basically fell apart between 4-5 years old and 40-50k miles.

My old high school teacher, who I’m still friends with, bought a new ‘95 Ram 2500 4x4 that chewed through three transmissions in 39k miles, and every single time he engaged 4-hi something broke (I can no longer remember what it was, but it was the same thing every time).

My brother-in-laws ‘05 Caravan sliding door fell off when it was two years old.

I could go on. I like a lot of Mopar products, but I don’t trust them at all.

Hammerdown > LJ909 04/28/2017 at 10:06

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This was my thought during the all the buildup to the Demon. A huge marketing push for a crazy car. However, its a 12 year old body and chassis that hasn’t had a styling refresh since it debuted. I’m not sure how they’ve gotten away with it. In that time the Camaro went through a mid-cycle refresh and then got an entirely new platform.

Unfortunately, it seems like Dodge isn’t taken seriously in the pony car wars. The Challenger was competitive in the tests 10 years ago (it’s only real competition in 2008 was a 4.6L Mustang, but it’s been left behind in the performance department since then.

LJ909 > Hammerdown 04/28/2017 at 11:42

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It is very old in automotive terms. But the Challenger did get a refresh in 15' which updated the front and rear fascias and the interior, which was still pre bankruptcy plastic Chrysler.