Car modding, the EPA, and you

"RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire" (ricerocketeer2) 04/13/2017 at 11:48 • Filed to: None

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!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , particularly for those of us who mod our cars (*ahem* ... looks at all of you). Original poster is (I believe) Shawn Church who’s done !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for who knows how long.

Evans Tuning is a mom and pop operation run by Jeff Evans (the tuner) and his wife. Jeff is a nice guy, talented and well respected in the business. He has a very loyal and happy customer base, and was named one of the top 20 tuning shops in the country.

After Cobb Tuning (and other ecu/flash tool makers) were raided last year, Evans Tuning received a demand letter from the EPA giving him one month to submit all his sales and customer data from the proceeding 3 years. It had to be submitted in an EPA mandated format and it was _not_ optional. After Jeff met the EPA demands he did not hear from them again, until just a couple weeks ago. They asked for a conference call with Jeff and his attorney. The conference call took place today.

In it, Evans was told that the EPA had identified no less than 298 violations of the clean air act, and each violation was subject to a fine of several thousand dollars. The net penalty is somewhere in excess of US$1 million. The vast majority of these penalties were not related to Evans’ tuning of various vehicles, but rather because Evans sold products to end customers that could be used to bypass emissions rules .

( !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! )

Well then.

Urambo Tauro > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 12:06

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The “for off-road use only” disclaimer doesn’t get them off the hook, huh?

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > Urambo Tauro 04/13/2017 at 12:06

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they forgot the *wink wink* at the end

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 12:10

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I don’t want to support anyone who turns Integra’s into drag cars.

*Angry eyes. >_<

AfromanGTO > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 12:12

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Isn’t Trump and his people gutting the EPA as we speak? So the tuners should reach out to him on twitter asking for help.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 12:13

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I see. I guess the EPA has caught 100% of the fucking morons that do that absurd coal-rolling nonsense and are moving on to smaller things.

random001 > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 12:16

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Wonder what Steve has to say about this...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 12:19

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“Prove that no components sold were used illegally” i.e. “prove your innocence” - real fuckin’ nice, EPA. Has nobody reminded you lately that we’re not notionally a Napoleonic law country and that common law practice would suggest prosecuting actual violations only?

No, of course they haven’t, silly me. What with delegation doctrine being Napoleon by the back door and all.

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > AfromanGTO 04/13/2017 at 12:33

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#MakeAmericaRicerAgain

Nothing > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/13/2017 at 12:33

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Hmm, couldn’t that same EPA ideology be tossed at gun shops (not that it ever would). “Prove no guns sold were used illegally”.

I’m NOT starting a gun control debate, simply using that as an example. Same coule be said for, say, Home Depot...prove those bolt cutters weren’t used illegally somewhere, sometime.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Nothing 04/13/2017 at 12:43

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Actually, to a point the BATF does (to borrow a Britishism) play sillybuggers in exactly this way with makers of modifications and accessories. The very weird SBR (short barreled rifle) rules from the 1930s NFA, for example, intended as a stepping stone to heavy restriction of pistols, are the source of more nonsense and grief of this kind than you can imagine.

Typical event: someone finds loophole, asks BATF about it, BATF says “Derr, OKAY!”, person builds item for loophole, BATF realizes what they’ve done, throws shitfit, says “ignore what we said before (that you have in print), everything is getting confiscated now”.

An armbrace for an AR platform pistol was first legal, then illegal, then legal, then legal again unless it ever touches the user’s shoulder, at which point it instantly becomes a felony item because of magic.

Just like tuner shop accessories, they’re not interested in fucking over anyone who can fight back easily. Just targets of opportunity, because dick-swinging.

BobintheMtns > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 12:45

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Do we know what modifications the EPA is taking offense to?

This sounds damning towards the EPA, but is the EPA is targeting stuff as simple as cold-air intakes...??

Or perhaps this ‘mom and pop’ were making a bundle off coal-rolling/cat by-pass stuff? 

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 12:49

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Ah, the United States Government. Ruining your lives because you paid us to.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BobintheMtns 04/13/2017 at 12:53

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Turbo upsizes, injector upgrades, upgrade (not delete) MAP sensors, and engine management/ECU tuning tools. Really vanilla stuff (I went and looked).

Nick Has an Exocet > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 15:21

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Man, I hate the EPA and CARB so much. Also, the profile photos on the CARB board site are barrels of fun.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Nothing 04/13/2017 at 15:41

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I had the exact same thought

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 15:43

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If both his layer and judge half more than half a brain, and the judge’s brain outweighs his dick or any bribes he may have received then this should be easy to get out of.

That being said, I don’t have high hopes and feel bad that he will probably be a martyr, so to speak.

TahoeSTi > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 04/13/2017 at 19:15

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what’s the cost benefit of this to the enviorment....could n’t they spend their time and money on something more productive.....like stopping military flyovers of events...that is worst for the environment then all the car mods combined.

Orange Exige > TahoeSTi 04/15/2017 at 22:21

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I agree overall but for your specific example, I THINK things like that would happen anyway because of mandatory flight time requirements, etc. (maybe not even etc.)

But totally, I think there are far bigger fish to fry that would have a better impact on the environment. If we’re talking cars, how bout (forcing local police to) enforcing anti-idling? This obviously would also include LIMITING police themselves from excessive idling. There’s no excuse for it nowadays and its 110% wasteful, 110% benefit to the environment. At least the guy with the bigger injectors still drives his car to work and uses it functionally (even if that function was for (safe ;) enjoyment) - can’t be said about most idling.

TahoeSTi > Orange Exige 04/17/2017 at 10:16

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Thank you for understanding the point. One thing I was thinking of when the cats clogged in my mustang. Is it really worth it to get full 50state legal cat replacements, I drive the car 1,000 miles a year. How much mining and manufacturing and shipping does it take to get the cat to me....how many miles do i have to drive for the cat to be better than nothing?

Orange Exige > TahoeSTi 04/17/2017 at 16:27

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Edit: sorry for the impending rant...

Hmm interesting thought exercise there... (well, enough time and effort could create a factual answer but you’re probably not paid for that and neither am I)

As a personal anecdote, my first car was an 87 MR2 and by the time I picked it up, the previous owner had replaced the leaky cat with a straight pipe as a quick fix. Being so old, it didn’t need to pass emissions (I don’t think?)... I had it cat-less for a little bit but I couldn’t stand the thought of driving around spewing noxious fumes from my crappy car and I would not want to be the guy stopped behind me at a red light (sucking in not-so-fresh outside air into his car). So I actually did end up buying an aftermarket cat and installing it myself - I paid extra to make myself feel better knowing I was harming the environment every so slightly less (although presuming that the sourcing/manufacturing/etc environmental costs were outweighed by its usage benefits).

Also, as far as I know, most bikes don’t have cats since they’re typically exempt from emissions. (I wonder about CA and their traditionally strict regulations...) Sure some/most riders won’t ride nearly as much as they drive and maybe the cost of not having a cat for them would be better for the environmental overall (similar to your situation), but there are also some riders who put crazy miles on their bikes - not to mention you can get bike engines as big as (regulated) small car engines - and you’d have to imagine overall their direct emissions outweigh the other environmental cons about cats...

Oh side note regarding my first reply to you: drive thrus should be banned. Period. I don’t need a scientific study (are there any??) to know that the environmental cons of them vastly outweigh their petty convenience benefits. But what sucks now is that with the going rate of car tech, there’s little motivation to do anything about them because a quickly growing number of cars (electrics and hybrids, plus gas start & stop to a degree) will have little waste and (virtually) zero emissions* in drive thrus.

*ACTUALLY zero, not that ridiculous “partial zero emissions” that Subaru loves to use...

TahoeSTi > Orange Exige 04/17/2017 at 17:01

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I agree a high-flow cat is needed at minimum just for the smell, but a true factory cat which would be the only CARB legal replacement and gets you how much more? and at what real cost?

My line of thinking here is these are the questions we should be asking before making regulations, what is the true net benefit, and who’s paying for it how.