Something I don't get:

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa) 03/13/2017 at 17:54 • Filed to: None

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NB Miata: 8.1 second 0-60, 17.05 lbs per hp. Makes sense. Low power, kinda porky. Scion FR-S: 6.4 second 0-60, 13.8 lbs per hp. Far better power to weight, much faster. ND Miata: 5.8 second 0-60, 15.04 lbs per hp. Worse power to weight ratio than the FR-S, but absolutely TRASHES it to 60? What the hell?

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 17:58

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Gear ratios & powerband.

CompactLuxuryFan > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 17:58

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More area under the curve(s) and possibly shorter gearing.

bob and john > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 17:59

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1: gear ratios
2: power band
3: miata makes more power low down, where as FRS you have to rev it to get anywhere.

Decay buys too many beaters > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 18:02

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The 3000-4000prm torque dip on the FR-S really kills it

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 18:03

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The FR-S has weird power dips that cause some problems.

Stock tires on the FR-S are also complete shit, like something you’d find on a Prius.

HammerheadFistpunch > Decay buys too many beaters 03/13/2017 at 18:06

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That power dip was such a HUGE turnoff for me when I drove it. Its all well and good to need to rev the engine to make power, but when you have to sit through a monster dead spot it spoils the fun on the run up to redline.

Decay buys too many beaters > HammerheadFistpunch 03/13/2017 at 18:11

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It’s pretty easy to rectify, just not for those emission/warranty folks. If they’d have just moved the precat a few inches downstream (or in my case remove it entirely) and shortened the right bank runners that rev range turns into the torque peak without sacrificing peak power.

benjrblant > bob and john 03/13/2017 at 18:17

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HammerheadFistpunch > Decay buys too many beaters 03/13/2017 at 18:22

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interesting. I heard rumors it was done intentionally to encourage high rpm use. I’de also heard it was in the software but I can see how tuning the pipes would have the effect you describe.

bhtooefr > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 18:28

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In addition to all the other comments about power band, gearing, and tires... Mazda’s had an insane focus on driveline efficiency as of late, meaning more of the engine’s power makes it to the wheels.

Let’s add another car to illustrate this:

Mustang EcoBoost: 5.6 seconds to 60, 11.8 lbs per hp, per Motor Trend.

Decay buys too many beaters > HammerheadFistpunch 03/13/2017 at 18:29

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I heard that too, but if so it is a mechanical property of the exhaust manifold. No one I know has yet been able to remove that toque dip through software tuning alone. However, add on a decent un-equal length runner exhaust manifold and it becomes a waaay nicer street car without losing its eagerness up top.

DasWauto > bob and john 03/13/2017 at 19:29

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4: tires

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 19:36

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Must be gearing.

daender > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 19:39

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Only until the ND’s transmission shits the bed. I’ve heard autocrossing horror stories than Mazda may have over-Lotus’d the transmission and gears 2, 3, and even 4 have been failing because Mazda make them too small/thin (in an effort to shrink down the transmission housing size to reduce weight). STR-prepared and enthusiastically-driven NDs are the most likely candidates for occurrence.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=610318

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > daender 03/13/2017 at 19:42

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Bummer :( 124 have the same issue? TBH I’m not a huge fan of the ND. Compare a ND to a well-sorted MSM+emergency repair slush fund and you’ll have a very very hard time justifying the ND for the additional cost. Still want an MSM, myself. Turbo goodness and a 0-60 under 7 seconds = everything I want in a car.

daender > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 19:59

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I believe the 124 uses the 6-speed out of the NC (which may also be the same design as the NB 6-speed), which is easily capable of handling that power. I think at least one STR ND autocrosser has already dropped a used NC transmission in with no major issues.

MSM + Aussie 3.63 + FM Enchilada kit = perfect reliable boost Miata.

tromoly > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 20:21

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Horsepower doesn’t matter, Torque and Gearing is what matters.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > daender 03/13/2017 at 22:45

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I have the opportunity of buying a whole MSM stock turbo kit with a piggyback ECu for next to nothing and I gotta say the temptation is damned strong. 7psi on a VVT 1.8 would be a good time.

Dusty Ventures > HammerheadFistpunch 03/13/2017 at 22:53

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Here’s a before/after of a Toyobaru with a Nameless Header. Goodbye dip

Vicente Esteve > daender 03/13/2017 at 22:59

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For 2017, the transmissions are good.

Vicente Esteve > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 23:01

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The ND really surprised me as well regarding its acceleration. Sure it isn’t fast, but damn quicker than 155hp suggests. I have seen that headers and a tune can get it to about 180WHP; Would love to see the times it could make.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Vicente Esteve 03/13/2017 at 23:02

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It really didn’t feel that fast to me. I’d still rather have a mazdaspeed NB than an ND

Vicente Esteve > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/13/2017 at 23:25

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I see where you’re coming from.

It would feel fast compared to my 8.2 0-60 and low 16s quarter.

HammerheadFistpunch > Dusty Ventures 03/13/2017 at 23:44

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That after torque curve is damn impressive

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 03/14/2017 at 13:53

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What you want with an MSM (or any other miata turbo set up) is to bolt in a 5-speed NB gearbox. It makes the car so much better to drive. The biggest problem with the MSM is that the gearing is just too damn short with the 6 speed box. By time the turbo fully spools up in gears 1-4, you’re out of revs.