What is a truck?

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
10/31/2017 at 17:11 • Filed to: car and driver

There is a delightfully pedantic article (the best kind!) over on Car and Driver about whats a “light truck” in the eyes of the government thats worth a read

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Frankly I think the EPA needs to simplify its truckly standards. I mean if this can slip through the cracks...

However, I don’t know what that would be...

DISCUSSION (59)

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:18

One day I will graduate from pedantic to delightfully pedantic

My citroen won't start > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:18

Wrong

Kinja'd!!!

This is a truck.

HammerheadFistpunch > My citroen won't start
10/31/2017 at 17:20

but thats a heavy truck, cause its heavy. this is a light truck because...well obviously, right?

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HammerheadFistpunch > For Sweden
10/31/2017 at 17:22

we’ll throw a party, but you can’t make a big deal about it.

My citroen won't start > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:23

That’s a car.

These are pick-ups

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HammerheadFistpunch > My citroen won't start
10/31/2017 at 17:24

According to the EPA...they are held to the same standards for fuel economy.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:25

I’ve always referred to anything body-on-frame that isn’t a car as a truck. My Tahoe, truck. FZJ80, truck. Old Explorer, truck...new unibody Explorer, not a truck.

HammerheadFistpunch > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms
10/31/2017 at 17:26

Thats my general philosophy, much to my wife’s chagrin (its not a truck! it doesn’t have a bed!). Gets trickier in the day and age of unibody crossovers though, unless it doesn’t and there just aren’t that many light trucks.

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:28

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EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:29

i’ll go if there’s punch and pie

HammerheadFistpunch > EL_ULY
10/31/2017 at 17:29

No Ridgelines?

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:30

nah fam, that’s in the “El Camino but instead of car-base, it’s crossover-base” category.

HammerheadFistpunch > EL_ULY
10/31/2017 at 17:31

A small but important market segment.

Klaus Schmoll > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:31

I know that truck =/= commercial vehicle, but maybe it should. Over here a commercial vehicle gets tax cuts, that’s why a lot of tightwads bought old postal service Golfs in the 90s.

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So why is that a commercial vehicle? More than 50% of the ineriour/overall space are a cargo area:

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See? No back seats. I would be fun to see this rule applied by the EPA. Would cause some serious headaches to the major automakers and it would make for some funny last minute conversions. We might see jump seats and the like (think Subaru Brat) make a comeback.

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:32

Kinja'd!!!

we need more!

RT > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:33

Kinja'd!!!

This is a car^

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This is also a car^

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This is a truck (or lorry)^

Nibbles > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:35

This is a truck

Kinja'd!!!

HammerheadFistpunch > RT
10/31/2017 at 17:35

If im the EPA I see 2 light trucks and one class 6 truck.

My citroen won't start > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:36

This is wrong.

Urambo Tauro > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:36

Interesting question (and article).

I dunno if ride height is all that important, but I think I’d agree that the most important factor has to be its non-passenger cargo capacity. Off-road ability is really more of an accessory to the overall design, while cabin/cargo area layout is much more inherent.

I guess I’ll concede that folding or removing seats to increase cargo capacity shouldn’t rule out a vehicle’s qualification as a truck. Much as I don’t like to think of minivans as “trucks”, I would be hard-pressed to explain why a Suburban still counts.

And I don’t want to say that it comes down to body-on-frame, because that feels like a weak argument. We need to be able to say what is or isn’t a truck, and then we can argue over whether it’s a good, well-designed truck or not.

HammerheadFistpunch > Nibbles
10/31/2017 at 17:36

But...is there a truck?

For Sweden > EL_ULY
10/31/2017 at 17:37

Is an El Camino a truck?

Is a taco a sandwich?

Nibbles > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:38

Can you bend a truck? If so, then yes

or no

I forget how that all goes

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:40

I’d probably just say there’s less trucks. Unless full size pickups go unibody, then I’d have to change my definition.

HammerheadFistpunch > My citroen won't start
10/31/2017 at 17:54

You are correct.

My citroen won't start > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 17:55

Can I get a Certificate?

HammerheadFistpunch > My citroen won't start
10/31/2017 at 17:57

You can pick it up at For Swedens Delightfully Pedantic graduation party.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Nibbles
10/31/2017 at 18:13

This is the only reply that makes sense.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 18:16

Your wife is right. But then a 75 series cab chassis isn’t a truck either. Certainly not in the Australian context anyway.

Milky > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 18:37

9" of ground clearance. ONLY diffs are allowed to hang below that.

The RAV4 is replacing the Camry and the most sold car . Everyone is getting CUVs, in my mind effectively lowering CAFE standards. Make trucks, trucks again.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Nibbles
10/31/2017 at 18:40

Umm... Raptor.

EL_ULY > For Sweden
10/31/2017 at 18:41

it’s a car with a truck bed like the Ridgeline is a crossover with a truck bed.

RT > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 18:58

The EPA need to see lorries sometime.

But ok, round 2 - what does the EPA think these are?

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Note that none of these are body-on-frame.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 18:59

I’m of a mind that vehicles should be considered trucks if the primary function of the vehicle (or at least the chassis it sits on) is the transportation of cargo. By that definition SUV’s get pretty questionable. If the platform is a truck one that’s been turned into a passenger vehicle – I would consider my Jimmy to be the latter, given the S10 truck chassis, and frankly with the seats folded down you can get some shit in there, like the pair of Jeep axles I transported 500 miles a few weeks ago inside the Jimmy – the sure, call it a truck, but if it’s pretty much a “tall car” the way Jeep Cherokee is a tall Dart, and it’s definitely primarily for transporting passengers, that makes it a car, no matter the size or shape.

There would then be some other considerations as well. Vehicles like minivans or the HHR panel-van variant could be considered trucks so long as there is only one row of seats, or jump seats that fold out of the way – stow’n’go not necessarily being an exception – for cargo loading, if and only if the cargo space has been intended as a cargo space, for transporting bricks, lumber, plywood, that sort of thing, not a “the seats fold flat but don’t get them dirty” deal. Suspension that is intended for handling weight and not passenger comfort would be the clincher there. Full-size vans are definitely trucks though, given the fact that they’re cargo vehicles that have had seats added.

This still opens the floor to smaller coupe utes and the like, that are obviously trucks despite being car-based.

I’ll also throw it out there that adding a trailer does NOT turn a passenger vehicle into a cargo vehicle, i.e. a truck. The trailer itself may be a cargo vehicle but consensus with very few exceptions is that the trailer is a separate vehicle. And I’ll add self-propulsion under the requirement for trucks. Trailers are not trucks.

HammerheadFistpunch > RT
10/31/2017 at 19:20

Like, I’m pretty sure they’ve seen house

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As for the other they see them all as foreign market vehicles. Except the AMC which they see as too old to care about

for Michigan > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/31/2017 at 20:09

What if passengers are the cargo?

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms
10/31/2017 at 20:18

New unibody Explorer is just a station wagon.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms
10/31/2017 at 20:21

I saw a new Ridgeline recently and couldn’t figure it out at all. The old Ridgeline I could accept as some kind of SUV type thing. The new one feels like some kind of minivan-based ute/el camino. It just has such odd proportions that I can’t see it as a truck, car, or even “CUV”.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 20:23

I don’t hate the CX-3, and it’s basically the only CUV that I find somewhat attractive.

But then the fact is that I see it as a hatchback, not a CUV, SUV, or whatever.

HammerheadFistpunch > Eric @ opposite-lock.com
10/31/2017 at 21:24

That’s because it’s totally and completely a hatchback with optional awd

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > for Michigan
10/31/2017 at 21:46

The safe transportation of live humans requires a very different feature set than one for transporting bulk goods or construction supplies, etc. Trucks lack the basic needs of comfortable (or at least endurable) seating, human retention (er, seatbelts) and ventilation needs, as well as the many other creature comforts of a passenger vehicle such as entertainment, low noise levels, smooth ride, etc. I will allow a hearse or an ambulance as a truck as you wouldn’t necessarily be comfortable (well the hearse maybe...). I will allow busses of all sorts as trucks, given they’re nearly always built on van or commercial truck chassis anyhow, and built from truck components. An inter-city coach like a Greyhound is kinda pushing it, but I’ll allow it. An RV is also a truck, as the cargo is your living quarters, although generally they’re truck-based anyhow.

The delineation though is how the vehicle was equipped by the factory, not what you do with it. Stuffing a bunch of people under your toneau cover doesn’t turn your truck into a passenger vehicle, and stripping the interior out of your CTS-V Wagon doesn’t turn it into a truck.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2017 at 22:34

They need to make more of these without the pretense of them being CUVs. If this were lower and simply a hatchback, it’d be even better. If I wanted an SUV, I’d buy a 4Runner...

RT > HammerheadFistpunch
11/01/2017 at 05:17

Last attempt then, here are newer and more relevant vehicles.

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