Inspection on the Saabaru, might be worried!

"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678) 10/24/2017 at 17:00 • Filed to: None

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So I had an inspection done on the Saabaru I am planning to buy on Friday. I am trying to process the information to decide if I need to run away. Basically the MAJOR issue is the leaky head gasket. Now this was a performance subaru shop that has seen thousands of WRXs over the years and he said this happens to ALL of them. Its not leaking bad, but it is leaking. Seepage of oil into the reservoir. They said it may be manageable but it will need that done on the order of eventually.

Everything else is minor but at least a problem:

- Brake rotors and pads are worn (easy fix)

- Tire with a nail (replace a tire)

- The rust and dent underneath are just from bottoming out on something, pictures below (minor)

- Shocks are soft (time to upgrade)

- Defogger (easy fix)

- Clutch overheated too many times, likely throwout bearing on the way out (minor for now, but will be a leg workout)

My plan is to just talk the price down but I am worried that maybe I need to just pull out now while I still can. Glad I paid the $100 for the inspection!

What does Oppo think? Am I justified to run away? Crazy to stick it out?

I think its still a good buy, just need to make sure I can negotiate the clutch and head gasket issues into the price. I still think its worth $8k plus a new tire before I get there but I dont know how I feel about the $8600.

EDIT: Shop is quoting about $6.5k to fix everything (parts and labor). But $2k of that is stuff I can easily fix myself. That puts me at $4k no matter what that has to come off the price to make this a good deal. I am thinking a max price of $6k for the car is fair and a good deal.

Textured Soy Protein > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:05

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I don’t know about a Subaru but on my BMW a clutch job is a 4-figure bill when you include labor.

My nephew had a head gasket done on his Subaru and it was another 4-figure bill.

Going to need a pretty bigass discount to compensate for both of those.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:05

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idk, I’ve got the $3500 9-2x Aero going in tomorrow for a PPI. I already know it has rust and a head gasket issue, but for $3500 I can afford to fix it.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:06

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You need to replace all 4 tires unless you want to wear your drivetrain out prematurely. Being AWD means this car doesn’t like uneven tire diameters

uofime-2 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:10

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is it a head gasket or a valve cover gasket, because your description sounds like that latter which is much less concerning.

Most EJs burn so much oil that seeping gasket is the least of your oil consumption problems.

You can probably get the clutch done for around 8-900$ with OE replacement parts (which is all you need).

tires look new enough you could get away with replacing one.

I think that price is a bit steep for a Saabaru but tis the season for AWD tax

BeaterGT > Textured Soy Protein 10/24/2017 at 17:12

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Can confirm, got an upgraded (Single Mass Flywheel) stock clutch on my Legacy GT and it was over a grand. The stock 2005 Dual Mass Flywheel was even more expensive!

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 10/24/2017 at 17:12

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Yeah, any rotational speed difference forces the applicable diff to take that brunt, and it’ll wear them out significantly faster. Considering there’s usually 3 of them to deal with in a AWD car that can add up pretty quick.

Sometimes, though, a shop will shave a tire down to the right dimension after purchase. YMMV.

gettingoldercarguy > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 10/24/2017 at 17:13

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I seriously doubt a new tire of the same size will damage the drivetrain. If you put on a different enough sized tire, then yes.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > uofime-2 10/24/2017 at 17:14

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The shop seems to know Subarus and said some oil residue was in the coolant reservoir so its a head gasket problem. But yeah if it was just a valve cover, id be unconcerned. The tires were done less than 5k miles ago so they are basically new. Clutch is okay for now but I would plan to do it myself most likely. I would use that information to talk down the price for sure though.

facw > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 10/24/2017 at 17:14

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Given that they look nearly new, having one new tire shaved to match would probably save a lot of money.

benjrblant > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:18

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If the shop has diagnosed it as a head gasket, that’s an excellent time to also replace the clutch. Might as well pull the engine for the HG.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:22

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Maybe don’t run away, but price needs to be discounted by the cost of the headgasket and clutch (as though shop was doing both) and a new tire should be in place.

Captain of the Enterprise > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:22

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Was any of this disclosed or known before the inspection?

uofime-2 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:23

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ohhhhh missed the part about oil in the coolant, yeah that’s a 1200$ job minimum. On the upside then you’ll have fresh timing components and be good to go for another 90k miles in theory.

Replaced my Subies clutch this spring, its mechanically involved but not terribly difficult, took 8 hours goofing off with buddies. That along with doing the brakes will expose you to lots of little gotchyas, nickel and dime side items that need/could use replacement.

of course while the engine is out to do the gaskets is a great time to replace the clutch....

theloudmouth > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:24

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I miss mine so damn much. Best daily driver I’ve ever had. That car was freaking perfect (okay, it could have used an STI powertrain), awesome in all conditions, had all the fun of the WRX but wasn’t god awful embarrassing to be seen in. If there was a modern version I would buy it in a heartbeat and am gutted that Michigan’s damn endless use of salt and having to park it outside much of its life lead to its much too early demise.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Captain of the Enterprise 10/24/2017 at 17:26

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Nope, and I would imagine the guy just hadnt thoroughly inspected the car. I dont think he was intentionally keeping this stuff from me. Each item has been described as minor but I definitely have to talk the price down.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 10/24/2017 at 17:27

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I am hoping this guy is flexible on that account. Idk what a good price to talk down to would be but it definitely has to go lower. I am VERY happy I spent the $100 on an inspection. Idk how much lower I can get it but there is no way im paying $8600 anymore!

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:28

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It kinda sounds like to me you need to budget at least $2-3k for all the repairs. I mean head gasket, throw out bearing, suspension, brakes, and 4 new tires look like fairly immediate repairs to make and together are probably going to eat most or all of that up depending on if you do the work yourself.

I guess what you need to ask yourself is do you want a DD you’re gonna have to keep putting money (and time!)into to keep derivable, or do you want to wait and try to buy something with a few less issues? But only you know your circumstances and can accurately answer that.

$8600 is a lot to spend on a 13-14 year old car that needs work. Maybe I’m cheap but around $6000 should be more than fair.

I really hope it works out, this looks like a great car otherwise and would be an excellent addition to Scuderia Oppositelock.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:33

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Sounds like you know what you want to do: talk down the price. Looking over the comments you can figure $1,200 for the clutch, $1,400 for the head gasket and $500 for the other stuff. I’d let the owner know, tell him it doesn’t scare you, but if he is interested in selling to you he will need to come down on price $2.5 to $3k, and see where that takes you. Either way, I’d come up with a number that’d you’d be OK spending and not exceed it.

This car has, apparently, been driven hard and rough....

... :giggle:

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 17:43

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I think that DrivesaWRXandWantsYoutoKnowAboutIt   has it right, and this would be a $6,000 car for me, but you may feel differently. The seller may not like that number, but you are armed with reasonable points to use in negotiation, and if you walk away you know why.

Dusty Ventures > gettingoldercarguy 10/24/2017 at 18:09

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It’s been proven on multiple occasions that the difference in size between a new tire and an identical tire (same size same brand) with 20,000+ miles of wear is enough to cause damage. The tires on this car apparently have less than 5,000 miles on them, so he might be able to get away with doing just one

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 18:18

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$8600 is pure crack for a saabaru with those issues. Unless the mileage is super low and/of the interior is *PERFECT* I wouldn’t touch it for over $4000. If it *IS* low mileage and has a minty interior it might be worth $6000. If you can beat the seller down you might risk it, but at the asking price RUN AWAY. Too much money for a car that needs $3500 worth of work (thats obvious (don’t leave that clutch for too long, undercarriage bash speaks to possible abuse, or at minimum a mistake that may have other hidden consequences), let alone hidden/unknowns that could show up when you start to fix the other stuff.

gettingoldercarguy > Dusty Ventures 10/24/2017 at 19:06

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Mount that tire on the front (open diff), rear is clutch type lsd. Center is viscous. Most of that damage hype comes from locked diffs or extreme differences.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 10/24/2017 at 19:50

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I 100% agree. I am walking away at anything much more than $6k. I would think this is a VERY bad deal at anything over $6.5k. That is where I am valuing this car. The guy has been very flexible so I will at least try to work with him.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 10/24/2017 at 19:54

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Yup, agreed. Im willing to deal with the issues since I have a reliable Miata to get me through the first couple months of “teething” for the car. But yeah it HAS to be at an agreeable price point. $6k is my “fair price” judgement. I would MAAAAYBE do $6.5k and call it “okay”. But anything more and I walk. It is a good car and I could definitely drive around a bit before fixing anything. The worst it can do is leak more anyways.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 10/24/2017 at 19:55

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Interior is mint and exterior is mint. This makes it worth some money no matter what. Without the headgasket and clutch issue, it was worth $9k no questions even with the other stuff. I understand the WRX market, its nuts. But to me, just the other issues would have made my max price $8k. Now with the headgasket and clutch, my realistic maxprice is $6k.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > theloudmouth 10/24/2017 at 19:57

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Exactly, this car is rust free. That is the main killer. There is ZERO here but its got major engine issues. I can fix many things myself though. But in general, I gotta get the price much lower and then im sure I would love it.

RacinBob > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 21:01

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What I haven’t gotten feedback on is the seller. Is it somebody older that doesn’t sweat the money or is it somebody that lives paycheck to paycheck and has no money.

My guess is it is the former as the interior is perfect and that is a nice wrap on the exhaust. If that is the case, it is probably an honest car from an honest guy so offer him a honest price and close the deal.

I think you are over obsessing on the price. Do a search on autotrader for a 9-2x and find a better deal on a manual turbo with low miles? I tried ( LINK ) and couldn’t. In fact they have only two manual turbo’s in the country and the better one is in New Jersey and could be a rust bucket.  

If you want one and this car is in your neighborhood, Buy it and enjoy the ride.

BTW - had the same crowd here gave me advice in 1980, I would have never bought a ‘75 Alfa Alfetta while living in Wisconsin. Well, that Alfa got me into sports car racing and the only repair I did in 5 years was a clutch so there.

I assume you are young, so take a chance, I did and it opened doors for me. If the car feels right, and the owner feels like an honest guy/gal, buy it already.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > RacinBob 10/24/2017 at 21:32

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Thank you voice of my soul, the avoidance of pure reason and logical thinking! Haha yeah I feel the same, that for the right price I’d still buy it. None of the issues (aside from the tire) will make the car undriveable in the near term. I have a reliable miata and some mechanical skills, so I can fix all but the headgasket no problem. For $6k, I will take it no problem. But anything over $7k seems Crack pipe to me. 6.5 is my real limit. You make a good point though, the seller has given me good vibes. He would have given me some resistance to a PPI if he was sketchy. He instantly agreed to it and wanted to go anywhere I chose. This was actually a shop he suggested though so seeing as this screws him more than anybody, I believe he is innocent.

RacinBob > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 21:53

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My guidance is used specialty cars have to be found because they are rare. I don’t give a hoot about “crack pipe” worries. Because if you buy it, drive it for 5 years and sell it resulting in less than $1500 a year repair and depreciation, you have done well. We all have a calculator in our head that tells us we are spending too much. But is $10k all in too much, really?

So worst case you are driving a car that somebody paid $31k new for. If it drives like new, and looks like new, are you wasting money? Keep you eye on the head gasket, who knows it may never get worse. Tell the owner you really want it, you will take care of it, and why you need to save the money and go for it.

For your time, here’s a review LINK

RacinBob > RacinBob 10/24/2017 at 21:55

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Also - buy a plug kit and plug the tire. The tires look like new, give it a shot.

RacinBob > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 21:56

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PS my alfa leaked oil into the water for 5 years. Never came to much, never did fix it.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > RacinBob 10/24/2017 at 22:01

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I’d hope he could get the tire repaired or replaced if need be and then settle on a fair price. The tire is the one thing that would impact my ride home. Otherwise, yeah I think with an acceptable price it can work out. I need it to be a daily driver not a project. But yes, these are special enough where I could accept quite a bit of maintenance required. I have to be a little reasonable. Of course my original price of $8600 is too much. I just have to figure out what is fair.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > RacinBob 10/24/2017 at 22:03

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Haha well yeah I could ignore it but it’s a common, expected issue on these cars. It’s why I’m not immediately running away. I knew I’d deal with it eventually, but at this low of mileage it may indicate the car was abused hard.

RacinBob > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/24/2017 at 22:53

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Not really, most things fail due to age, not miles. The 5 mile commute is just as hard as the 30 after 12 years.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Dusty Ventures 10/25/2017 at 08:12

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I hadn’t noticed that the tires were fairly new, so yea, may not cause any issues doing it in this case

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > facw 10/25/2017 at 08:13

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I didn’t notice that the tires on it were fairly new, so he might be able to get away with just buying 1

theloudmouth > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 10/25/2017 at 12:41

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While V7+ front clips are obscenely expensive and it would be so awesome to have, if you want to keep it more reasonable there is plenty of inventory for EJ205/EJ255's around to rebuild then install once ready. Is it an ‘05 with the EJ205 or ‘06 with the EJ255?

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > theloudmouth 10/25/2017 at 13:30

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‘06 with the EJ255, which is why I REALLY want it lol