Would you rather? 

"arl" (arl1968) 10/13/2017 at 06:37 • Filed to: None

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You’re about to buy a car that will last you the next 15 years.

Which of these 2 cars would you buy? One isn’t cheap for a used car, one is expensive for a new car.........

A) $25k - For a used Lexus ES350 from Carmax. Only 10K miles, nicely optioned. Should last forever and won’t cost you an arm and leg to maintain. It won’t be fun per se, but will be extremely comfy for trips. Your zeitgist will come from being swathed in comfort, driving a “fancy” car, saving money because it will cost next to nothing in maintenance, and dammit, it’s just nice to relax and drive a soft car.

B) $42K for the car, $5K for the trip to Europe, so $47K total - For a brand new entry level “Oppo” BMW 320i, with a stick. The options you pick are; the sport package, red paint, manual, and heated front seats. The delivery options are picking it up in Germany. You have always wanted the ultimate driving machine and this may be the last chance to buy one before they all go CVT/front wheel drive. Your zeitgeist comes from picking it up from the factory in Germany, driving it on the Autobahn, around the black forest, and on The Ring. It’s stupid expensive for a 4 cylinder car with almost no options, but it’s still (sort of) the ultimate (or at least adequate) driving machine.

pip bip - choose Corrour > arl 10/13/2017 at 06:44

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neither, i’d take a Mitsubishi Lancer manual, to replace the one i have already which is nearly 15 years old with 658k km

Mini Guy- Now has a 4Runner > arl 10/13/2017 at 06:45

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Beemer all day

interstate366, now In The Industry > arl 10/13/2017 at 06:46

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C) a car that’s a balance of both

Low-mile examples are mid-high teens. Some (including this one) have manuals, a few have V6s, and there are a few wagons out there if you need that.

duurtlang > arl 10/13/2017 at 06:58

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As the Lexus ES isn’t available here at all I’d have to import one from, for example, the US. And why would I want to do that? It doesn’t look good, it doesn’t drive well and it’ll be expensive (due to the import process). I could get an IS though, it’s rare but at least it’s available. Good luck finding a shop that’s used to servicing those though.

I’d go C) : lightly used nicely optioned BMW 320i Touring with 10k miles for €25k. I’m still going to pick it up in Germany as I currently live in Germany.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > arl 10/13/2017 at 07:06

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Given the choice presented, I’d either Uber or take the train.

random001 > interstate366, now In The Industry 10/13/2017 at 07:44

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Dat butterface, doe

random001 > interstate366, now In The Industry 10/13/2017 at 07:45

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Did they make manual V6 wagons?!?!

arl > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 10/13/2017 at 07:52

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I can’t argue with that.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > arl 10/13/2017 at 07:55

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arl > duurtlang 10/13/2017 at 07:56

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I’ve test driven an ES, and it does drive well. Is it a canyon carver? No. But it’s surprisingly quick.

I would buy a used Lexus, but I have hard time thinking I would buy a used BMW.

arl > pip bip - choose Corrour 10/13/2017 at 07:58

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658K KM? Holy Crap. What’s history of those miles? Did you put them on the car, or did previous owners?

Klaus Schmoll > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:03

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You keep using the word zeitgeist. I don’t think you know what it means.

arl > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 10/13/2017 at 08:03

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Yea for trucks! Had a Mazda B series. It was great - until it wasn’t.

duurtlang > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:04

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My point being: it’s not going to be fun . I’m confident it’s comfortable and quick, but imho that’s not enough to warrant my $25k.

I wouldn’t buy a 21st century BMW. Well, maybe an E39 or E46, but certainly not something newer. But given your choice between a fancy Camry and a 320i I’ll pick the BMW. Life’s too short for boring cars.

pip bip - choose Corrour > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:04

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all the kilometres put on by me.

bought it new late 2003.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:05

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Yea for small trucks most of all

Dark chocolate > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:07

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its really like asking would you rather have ice cream for dinner or would you like pancakes for breakfast.

I know different money and all that. But I you’re comparing a small, brand new, RWD car with minimal options plus a “vacation” to a used plush FWD “pseudo-luxury” mid size car.

You might as well buy a 3 used series with carmax warranty for 20 grand. And do your own trip to the autobahn and be done in about another 4-5 grand. :)

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:08

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Orrr for 25k you could buy an 2009 ish IS-F.

arl > Klaus Schmoll 10/13/2017 at 08:08

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You are right. I am wrong. And I am very tired from working overnight and getting no sleep.

Synonyms for Pleasure (which is the word I was substituting with zeitgeist, and failing horribly):

delight

enjoyment

joy

thrill

bliss

comfort

luxury

satisfaction

gratification

arl > Dark chocolate 10/13/2017 at 08:12

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Or...........I could move to Manhattan and take the train every day and quit worrying about buying cars. Hmm....

interstate366, now In The Industry > random001 10/13/2017 at 08:21

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No, no V6 wagons at all, and only Europe got manual wagons.

interstate366, now In The Industry > random001 10/13/2017 at 08:22

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How’s this?

random001 > interstate366, now In The Industry 10/13/2017 at 08:29

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So much sadness.

random001 > interstate366, now In The Industry 10/13/2017 at 08:29

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I’m confused right now...

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:32

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That sounds like a terrible idea. Next time you have one, say it out loud first, then realize it sucks and keep it to yourself :)

duurtlang > interstate366, now In The Industry 10/13/2017 at 08:35

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Europe didn’t even get a V6 in the sedan, at least my market (the Netherlands) didn’t. 2.0L, 2.4L and a 2.2L diesel were the engine choices. All three with a manual (automatic optional) and all three on both the sedan and the wagon. After the 2011 facelift there was a fourth engine option, a more potent Type-S version of the 2.2L diesel.

Looking at these Accords, as they’re called here, on a German used car website:
Wagon and sedan are about equally common, with the sedan winning by a small margin. I had actually expected the wagon to be more popular in this segment as it usually is.
Gasoline is a bit more popular than diesel.
Manual is more popular than automatic, but not by the large margin I had expected (61-39%).

Discerning > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 10/13/2017 at 08:39

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 likely beaten half to death. All of the isf’s I saw past the 30k threshold had been thrashed and neglected.

JR1 > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:40

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The Lexus. It might be the “drivers” car but no way can I stomach 47k for a entry level BMW.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Discerning 10/13/2017 at 08:40

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I’ve seen some clean ones but never got past an autotrader ad. Thought about going that route so I can look more mature but decided I really do want the manual. Back the WRX/drawing board.

Discerning > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:41

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Just buy a G37s sedan...

Quicker than both cars, still has a stick, decently reliable, LSD, comfortable.

People also won’t think you’re a senior citizen or a poser with a penchant for lease specials.

nermal > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:43

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C) Take out a 96 month loan, do the BMW Euro Delivery but with a 340 or M2, and the longest extended warranty you can get.

Think of what will matter in 15 yrs - The nav and extra electronics will all be outdated and more likely to break, so skip them. The bigger engine will not.

Discerning > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 10/13/2017 at 08:44

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They are durable cars, but they can only take so much. I kept setting worn out interiors, sloppy shifting transmissions on their last leg, and general wear and tear abound.

Have you considered a g37s sedan? They get a bad wrap from their cocky owners, but it’s not like the WRX is without its stigmas ;)

interstate366, now In The Industry > duurtlang 10/13/2017 at 08:54

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The V6 was, to my knowledge, only in North America. We were supposed to get the 2.2 diesel for 2010, but it apparently wouldn’t pass our emissions, so the V6 was plucked from the TL and put in there instead. Japan only got the 2.0 and 2.4, and oddly, no manual.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > arl 10/13/2017 at 08:56

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$42k could pay off all of my student loans and buy a nice ~$10k fun car as a daily. I would go that route!

deekster_caddy > arl 10/13/2017 at 09:03

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I went through this process a few years ago. I’d never purchased a new car before, I’ve worked my way up from $400 beaters to decent handmedowns to buying lease-returns... finally a few years ago I picked out my first new car and it’s been a blast to own and drive every day. I still have a couple of my old cars just for fun, but there’s nothing quite like being the first owner and knowing everything on the list of repairs or mods ever, and having some pride in maintaining the like new finish, reading the owners manual front to back that first night it comes home, etc... I’m almost at 5 years (and almost paid off) and still driving it makes me smile every day. Most cars I’ve had by 4-5 years I was ready to move on. This one I’m planning to keep for a long time.

Plus that trip around Germany with your new car is an experience you’ll remember forever.

Milky > arl 10/13/2017 at 09:41

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Why would you not buy a $25k GS?

shop-teacher > arl 10/13/2017 at 09:43

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I can’t abide by people who won’t stick to the terms of a hypothetical, as if some magic evil genie is going to make you abide by these terms.

Between those two, I’ll take the Japanese Buick. I don’t have the intestinal fortitude to deal with maintaining an old German car. I respect those who do, but I am not one of them. Besides, nowhere in your hypothetical does it not say I can’t also buy a string of cheap junkers to abuse on Gambler road rallies and rallycrossing.

LongbowMkII > arl 10/13/2017 at 09:50

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I’d definitely get the ES. The interior on modern entry level BMW’s are garbage and the factory settings are so soft that there’s not much point.

——-

I’d get a CPO Lexus IS350 Fsport for just about the middle of those budgets.  

TysMagic > arl 10/13/2017 at 09:55

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short answer: Lexus
long answer: Between those two, I’d take the Lexus.

Dark chocolate > arl 10/13/2017 at 10:42

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well, will you stop posting on oppo then? If Yes, then do it.. lol.

victor > arl 10/13/2017 at 10:59

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My parents got a “L Certified” 2015 es300h with 10k miles for 29k from lexus of stevens creek earlier this year. I had to admit that it looked new. This is cp pricing at carmax.

That said, my wife and I are thinking of picking up a q7 in Ingolstadt and driving thru Southern Europe via European delivery. Can you imagine that 3.0t dumping fuel our the tailpipe motivating 5500 lbs of mass at 100+mph? Yes plz.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Discerning 10/13/2017 at 13:06

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Not a 2008 or later Infiniti fan(ironically I’m about to post a really good received review of a 2009 FX35). Also I don’t think the G came in actual colors.

Discerning > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 10/13/2017 at 13:24

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A lot of car enthusiasts aren’t fans either for some reason - which is odd because they tick off so many boxes that they claim they want.

I don’t know if it’s some sort of perception, but I actually like them. They can even make decent power if you tinker with one.

G37 was available in black, white, grey, silver, gunmetal (like the gtrs), red, blues, Brown, etc. Pretty much everything but green and yellow.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Discerning 10/13/2017 at 13:45

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It probably doesn’t help I pass Nissans NA HQ every day. Infinitis and Nissans are just like every other car here. Even GTRs are seen multiple times a day.

arl > arl 10/13/2017 at 16:07

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And I should say to all you wonderful oppo’s that this is all hypothetical. But thanks for your passionate replies!

RT > arl 10/18/2017 at 20:22

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So the choices are a fancy Camry which they don’t even sell over here and a fun to drive BMW? Out of the two, the BMW is the no-brainer. No way would I import that Camry.

Ideally I’d go for option C though, which is probably a more exciting and older car.

arl > RT 10/19/2017 at 06:33

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Yes, this was all hypothetical anyway. I have a GTI I’m happy with.

I did test drive a ES350 before buying the GTI and came away much more impressed than I thought I was going to be. Then I thought about how BMW is going front wheel drive and getting rid of manual transmissions, on their way to becoming “The Ultimate Commuting Machine”, and I thought “Hey, I wonder what people would do if presented with a choice between these 2 dissimilar cars”?

At the end of the day I’d probably go for choice #3 - An entry level GTI for much less than either the ES or the 320i.

RT > arl 10/19/2017 at 16:23

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That’s a cool third choice, I really dig the new GTI.

It would be strange if a European brand like BMW removed all their manual options though, since manuals are still the majority around here. BMW could be pulling an AMG and making all their performance models automatic though.

Either way, let’s enjoy the age of the driveable car while it lasts.

Svart Smart, traded in his Smart > arl 11/18/2017 at 19:56

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Honestly? Fuck, I’ll take the BMW. But the Lexus has its appeal, I admit.