Wow, that's ugly.

"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr) 10/06/2017 at 06:14 • Filed to: toyota, hybrid, 86, toyobaru

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Say hello to the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , a new 86-based hybrid concept.

I’m... really not sure what they were doing with the styling, but it doesn’t work. And I say that as someone that actually likes the Gen 4 Prius styling.

In other news, this is apparently TS050-inspired. Oh, and they put an H-pattern shifter on an automatic (is it a true 6-speed auto with a sandwich motor, or is it the L210 power split device pretending to be a 6-speed? Toyota hasn’t said.) for the manual mode:

Edit: One thing I did forget to point out, though... at least this would likely deal with the complaints of the 86 not having enough torque...

Stapleface > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 06:24

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I actually like it. The front end has a bit of R231 SL Mercedes in it, to me.

I’d drive it for sure.

promoted by the color red > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 06:31

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I’m picking up some 222D (aka Group S MR2) vibes.

Montalvo > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 07:03

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I think the looks can be salvaged. For some reason it reminded me of the “new” lancia stratos.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 07:17

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“How do we keep the 86 fresh until the new model is ready?”

“Well, people have been complaining that it’s underpowered since it was first released. What if we—”

“HYBRID ALL THE THINGS”

“UGLY STICK”

bhtooefr > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 10/06/2017 at 07:34

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I mean, I don’t have a problem with the “HYBRID ALL THE THINGS” part if they did it right (for a sporty car). And, it’d nicely solve the complaints about lack of torque...

However, given that they felt the need to put a fake manual shifter on it, they probably didn’t do it right.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 07:47

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I think it’s okay-ish. Really looking forward to Honda’s electric sports car concept though, the rear teaser had a lot of S600/S800 about it.

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 07:53

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Targa top!
I would ditch the flat black paint for some blood red metallic, and change the wheels, other than that, it works for me

bhtooefr > Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction 10/06/2017 at 07:56

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The wheels are obviously an attempt to evoke the race wheels used on the TS050, and while they don’t really fit with the body design, they’re not really what bothers me.

The headlights just look... deranged, though.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 08:00

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I do and I don’t.

Small battery pack and motor to get a little extra oomph down low? Nothing wrong with that.

The problem is it never seems to be done properly. Two things. One, WHY is the natural thing to do to ANY car now to add a hybrid system because MPG? I get the Prius, though I very do_not_like them, that’s it’s entire focus. But this is a sports car. If it’s getting a hybrid, it should be for performance reasons. More performance same fuel consumption. Same with GM’s hybrid trucks. The focus shouldn’t have been on better fuel economy. It should have been on towing more with the same fuel. Second, the idea that hybrids must look different. Again, the Prius I get. It’s always been a little different, always looked a little different, that’s kind of it’s thing... and in today’s world of overwrought styling that means it looks pretty wild. But why does everything else need to go nuts? IT’S THE SAME CAR JUST WITH ADDED ELECTRICITY. YOU DON’T NEED TO MAKE THEM ALL LOOK STUPID. PLEASE.

/endrant

Dasupersprint - base trim is enough > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 08:33

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I really like it?!!?

LongbowMkII > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 08:35

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looks like a fan photoshop. or a scifi prop car set in 2030

bhtooefr > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 10/06/2017 at 08:58

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A lot of what’s going on is simply, there’s a lot of pressure (sometimes from governments, sometimes from the market) to get better fuel consumption, and a hybrid system is actually a pretty decent way to do that, through both kinetic energy recovery, and through engine optimization.

I think a lot of my response to your post, though, can be summed up as... ¿Porque no los dos? - at least in sports cars, anyway.

Tuned properly, a hybrid system that improves performance can also improve efficiency, especially in the city. Case in point, let’s look at Acura’s lineup, where the Sport Hybrid option is the performance option (there’s not much out there where the hybrid is the performance option):

For the MDX , 0-60 drops from 6.0 to 5.7 in the hybrid, 1/4 mile drops from 14.7 @ 95 to 14.5 @ 97 in the hybrid, compared to the AWD non-hybrid... and the hybrid also has more skidpad grip, at 0.87 g compared to 0.83 g - the torque vectoring that it can do, and the effect on weight distribution,  actually helps handling .

As far as the trucks... towing capacity has a few factors going into it, and hybrids aren’t helped by those factors.

The SAE J2807 test cycle includes a lot of grade climbing tests, where hybrids likely won’t add any towing capability, between cooling demands (especially for power split hybrids, where a significant portion of engine power is going through an electrical path - parallel hybrids can simply shut down in that scenario and not add any cooling demand) and battery depletion. This is why it’s been easier to make hybridization a performance/efficiency adder, rather than a towing capacity adder - in that workload, it need only be intermittent, whereas towing capacity is sustained.

And, the previous-gen GM hybrid trucks had significantly worse performance than even the 5.3, despite having a 6.0 with more power - the hybrid system appears to have been very badly optimized for getting power to the ground. The new ones are just a belt alternator/starter on the 5.3, so no loss in tow capacity (although they can’t be ordered with the NHT towing package (which increases towing capacity significantly), AFAIK, so the hybrid system may actually be limiting tow capacity), but also only a mild improvement in efficiency. However, they talk about more low-end torque, which from everything I’ve heard, the 5.3 needs.

Hopefully Ford’s more integrated planned parallel hybrid system does well (fun fact, GM could end up using it, too, as it’s rumored to be based on the shared GM/Ford 10-speed RWD transmission), and hopefully Toyota can get a power split to maintain tow rating with the 4-speed reduction box that they’ve got now on the LC and LS 500h - that gives more options for optimizing torque, and avoiding high-current modes of operation. (GM’s power split design on the 2009-2013 hybrids had two power split modes (with CVT-like behavior), and four fixed gears to avoid high-current operation when towing, and was apparently sluggish at shifting between those two modes and the fixed ratios. The CT6 plug-in hybrid’s transmission is actually a successor to this, although IIRC it only has three fixed ratios.)

bhtooefr > Dasupersprint - base trim is enough 10/06/2017 at 08:58

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Back end doesn’t bother me nearly as much, it’s really just the front I have a major problem with.

Urambo Tauro > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 09:52

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I don’t hate the exterior styling, but that nonsense with the shifter makes me want to beat my head against the wall. I like the idea of having the option to row my own gears in an automatic, but combining the H-pattern with that full row of giant gear selector buttons on the dash would really screw with my muscle memory.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 09:53

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I have a very simple message for Toyota:

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 09:57

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Then again, I also liked that Skoda from Rihanna’s “Shut up and drive” video

This one seemed to have lorry headlights

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 10:01

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I think it reminds me of the MR2 Gruppe S rally car. I kind of like it.

scoob > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 10:06

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The problem is they kept all the bodywork between the front and back the exact same, minus the roof.

Sweet Trav > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 10:28

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That’s fucking hideous and ruins the best thing about the GT86, its low curb weight. The required weight and batteries is going to make this thing a disgusting pooch. Not to mention automatic, gross.

bhtooefr > Sweet Trav 10/06/2017 at 10:31

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Depends on how much battery they’ve put in - I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s still under 3000 pounds, especially as it looks like the back seat got removed.

jonny11quest > Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction 10/06/2017 at 10:44

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Keep the targa top, ditch everything else, and change the front bumper back to pre-facelift 86.

Basically I like the targa.

NojustNo > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 13:53

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Matte black says “I can’t afford to finish painting my car” to me. Terrible choice for a factory color .

I like the overall design. There must be a more seamless/ prettier way to do that front end though.

CaptDale - is secretly British > bhtooefr 10/06/2017 at 17:07

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EW