"Khalbali" (khalbali)
08/21/2016 at 03:49 • Filed to: None
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"Khalbali" (khalbali)
08/21/2016 at 03:49 • Filed to: None | 1
| 19 |
Just wanted to see if any OPPOs know anything about converting power steering to manual. My beater Geo’s pump is getting noisy and the rack leaks like a mofo and would ideally like to ditch it because racecar. My NA Miata had been converted to manual steering by the PO but it was very heavy, whereas other cars I’ve had that had manual steering from the factory were not. So what’s the difference? I’m ok with factory style manual steering but don’t want it to be crazy heavy as I do a lot of city driving delivering pizzas in that car, tight parking, etc.
Most beautiful car for your time:
Birddog
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 03:58 |
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Small FWD cars should have never had “Power” steering. Armstrong steering isn’t hard to get used to.
bhtooefr
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 04:19 |
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So, there’s two primary ways to convert to manual steering.
The first way involves depowering a power steering rack. The laziest method is just to remove the belt from the power steering pump, but then you have to turn the pump when steering. The other (more correct) way is to also disconnect the fluid lines, and connect them together.
The second way is to remove the pump, then replace the steering rack with a manual one.
Power steering racks tend to be much faster ratio than manual steering ones, which requires more torque input by the driver (so, it feels heavier) to turn the wheels a given amount. Conversely, the driver doesn’t have to turn the steering wheel as much to get that steering input.
That said, the amount of weight over the front wheels, the width of the front tires, as well as the front suspension geometry (specifically, caster angle and steering axis inclination), helps to determine how hard it is to steer a given car. A Geo Metro has rather low caster (the targets being below 1.5 degrees) and I’d expect would have rather mild SAI (most likely set up for a slightly negative scrub radius, as a negative scrub radius helps provide stability in case of tire failure or a single braking circuit (in a split system) failure), specifically to reduce steering effort in the manual steering cars. (The downside of this is that you lose steering feel.) Conversely, a Miata has a fair amount of caster (around 4.5 degrees IIRC), and probably has a lot of SAI, to help enhance steering feel (although Mazda did sell Miatas with a manual rack).
Also, really old manual steering cars had large steering wheels, to give you further mechanical advantage.
tl;dr: It’s the gearing ratio of the steering rack, as well as the suspension geometry. Your Geo has a suspension geometry that’s good for this, so it’s just a matter of whether the rack ratio on the power rack is suitable.
Steve in Manhattan
> bhtooefr
08/21/2016 at 07:20 |
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What he/she said ....
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Steve in Manhattan
> Birddog
08/21/2016 at 07:21 |
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My ‘91 CRX Si had manual steering. No problems, even when parking it was easy to turn the wheel.
BringBackTheCommodore
> Birddog
08/21/2016 at 08:07 |
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Had an ‘81 Scirocco with manual steering, never felt heavy or difficult.
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BringBackTheCommodore
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 08:09 |
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What year/model Geo?
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merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 08:31 |
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I had a 97 neon that would turn intermittently decide to turn itself into manual steering when it would throw the ps belt, it wasn't too bad to drive. A lot of guys were ditching the ps system and just looping the lines to go full manual steering. is there a geo owners forum online? I'm sure somebody has done it and has some insight into how it works out. You really want to eliminate the pump and the fluid from the system to make it as easy to turn as possible.
Probenja
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 09:04 |
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I’m pretty sure the Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift came without power steering as standard, If you want to do it the right way you could try to fing a steering rack in a junk yard and transplant it, otherwise just cut the power steering belt. and you’ll get similar results.
Jesse Shaffer
> merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
08/21/2016 at 09:05 |
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In a Neon the engine is angled to displace its weight directly down across the front tires, they suck to park without PS IMO. I switched to the manual ACR rack because it was actually faster lock-to-lock.
My pump started to fail, so on long highway off ramps I appeared to be swerving the wheel to go straight as pressure would come and go in the wheel through the long corner. It kept you awake.
Forge Crown Victor!
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 10:23 |
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The key to manual steering is the have the car moving before you turn the wheel. That being said, if a manual rack was an option, most of the time just swap out racks. Could try the looped system trick. Pressure side on the rack to return side on the rack. Fill with as much fluid as you can using a transfer pump or turkey baster. Tighten the fitting. You can usually do this with brake line.
sony1492
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 10:56 |
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Racks that were designed to be manual have more turns lock to lock allowing for more leverage similar to bike gearing. Ive looped both the steering rack in a civic and my current sc, doing it does wear out the rack a little bit depending on how you do it. Option 1.) Find the inlet and outlet on the rack and figure a way to connect the two. 2.) Same as 1 but put a reservoir in between so the rack is constantly bathed even if it leaks a little. In my experiance option 2 is most effective at longevity and feedback.
For the pump youll have to reseach a shorter serpentine to bypass it.
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Khalbali
> Steve in Manhattan
08/21/2016 at 11:14 |
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Yeah my ‘90 Si was my first car, wasn't bad at all, neither was my festiva, it was just my Miata that had been converted to manual.
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Khalbali
> bhtooefr
08/21/2016 at 11:16 |
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It's actually a prizm, but good info here thanks!
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Khalbali
> BringBackTheCommodore
08/21/2016 at 11:16 |
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1990 prizm
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Khalbali
> Probenja
08/21/2016 at 11:17 |
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It's actually a prizm, should have been more specific, not sure if it came with a manual rack but I would assume it did.
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bhtooefr
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 11:27 |
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For some reason I saw “Geo” and thought Metro.
Corollas have even less caster, though.
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Khalbali
> bhtooefr
08/21/2016 at 11:40 |
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Yeah should have been more specific, didn't occur to me that everyone would think metro lol.
Master Cylinder
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 14:57 |
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I converted my 944S to manual steering by swapping in a proper manual rack. The steering is heavier, but not obnoxiously so. A de-powered rack will likely have a quicker ratio that will make it considerably more difficult to turn than a regular manual rack.
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BringBackTheCommodore
> Khalbali
08/21/2016 at 19:46 |
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Not sure if there’s an Orielly Auto near you, but I found a manual rack and pinion assembly for a 1990 Corolla wagon, given that the Prizm and Corolla are essentially the same, this might fit:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/…