Whew, Pricey.

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 07/19/2016 at 17:10 • Filed to: None

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I didn’t realize how pricey the V22 was in unit cost.

72.1 million flyaway cost. Granted that has a lot to do with a troubled program with a long run and lots of setbacks but...that’s a lot.

The F22 is ~150 mil

The F35 is in the ~115 range

Or, you could get this for about the same price

AND one of these

And have 11 million left over for spare parts and gas (unit cost, inflation adjusted)

dogisbadob > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:20

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CP

HammerheadFistpunch > dogisbadob 07/19/2016 at 17:23

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Kinda, right? I mean its super cool and all, but that’s 2.5X the cost of a blackhawk.

Future next gen S2000 owner > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:24

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Defense contracts are all CP these days. To be fair though, the C-130 and F-16 where designed in what, the 1960's/1970's? Pretty sure the C-130 saw time in Vietnam and the F-16 was flying in the late 70's early 80's.

ttyymmnn > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:25

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But neither of those will do what the Osprey does. As you probably know, the Osprey was a direct result of the fiasco that was Operation Eagle Claw , the disastrous attempt to free the hostages in Iran. The only way they could get a C-130 into the soccer stadium where the hostages were supposed to be waiting was to put braking rockets on the Herk with predictably poor results . Once they got the bugs out of the Osprey (which sadly cost a number of lives), it’s become an excellent, capable aircraft. Also, the AF isn’t buying F-16s any more. They’re only being produced for export customers. Which isn’t to say that we couldn’t build some for us, but all that money is tied up in the F-35.

But your argument was more about money, and modern military hardware is expensive, yo.

HammerheadFistpunch > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/19/2016 at 17:25

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Yeah, those costs are adjusted for inflation but I agree. Contracts are stupid expensive these days. Bid low and overrun is the name of the game.

ttyymmnn > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/19/2016 at 17:27

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The C-130 first flew in 1954, and the F-16 in 1974. So that design has indeed been around for a while, though I doubt many of those original vintage Herks are still in the air, at least for the US. And most of those first F-16s are probably basking in the Arizona sun. Still, it’s a remarkable run for both designs, and while the C-130 is still relevant, the F-16 is getting very long in the tooth when compared to modern designs.

HammerheadFistpunch > ttyymmnn 07/19/2016 at 17:28

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yeah, its a cool thing that does thing that nothing else can and I am REALLY excited b the prospect of tiltrotor craft in airmed uses like an AW609 that can reach the backcountry with a full EMS crew...but I just didn’t realize how expensive this one was.

MrDakka > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:30

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Haters gonna hate

just-a-scratch > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:31

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It does have 2.5x the Blackhawk's payload, greater range, and much greater speed though.

ttyymmnn > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:32

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UH-60 max speed: 183 mph, combat radius: 368 miles

V-22 max speed: 316 mph, combat radius: 426 miles

I haven’t looked at all the numbers, but I’d bet that the V-22 can haul more ass and trash than the UH-60, too. The Navy is planning to phase out the C-2 Greyhound and (try to) do COD with the V-22. Honestly, I think it’s a bargain. And they’re only going to get cheaper.

ttyymmnn > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:34

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I haven’t followed the AW609 after that fatal crash. I imagine the testing is continuing. If tilt rotors enter the civilian market, I can see them become even more popular than helos, simply because of their higher speeds.

ttyymmnn > MrDakka 07/19/2016 at 17:35

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That’s hilarious. But just imagine how much that carrier stowing system alone cost to develop.

Future next gen S2000 owner > ttyymmnn 07/19/2016 at 17:36

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For sure. Both have received many updates over the years. I’d be willing to bet the F-16 would hold up very well in a dogfight against modern designs. That assumes it is an actual dogfight and not a beyond visual range encounter. I mean like guns only dogfight - although I think Top Gun was the last time a dog fight happened like that.

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:38

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I just got back from the beach in NW FL, nestled right between Eglin AFB, Tyndall AFB, and NAS Pensacola. It. Was. Awesome. I saw over a dozen Air Force F-22s for the first time ever, four A-10s on a different day at 500' over the beach (so amazing), a couple Navy C-130s doing passes at about 150' off the water, plus a Marine Cobra/Huey team and several Navy Seahawks. And the V-22s flew over EVERY day. It was like a personal airshow...you don't get to see such diverse hardware on a regular basis in many places. My only SR20 is a digitally zoomed shot of the Hercules, but it's a piece of crap. Everything came and went so fast.

Future next gen S2000 owner > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:38

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I read The Machine That Changed The World , in Japan it is the opposite, apparently. Costs are expected to be high and come down over the course of the contract. This caused an issue when Japanese auto manufacturers started production in the US.

Expo2k > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:39

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They must pay by the decibel; fuckers are LOUD as all hell.

ttyymmnn > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/19/2016 at 17:40

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They predicted the end of the dogfight back in the 50s, when they didn’t put a gun on the F-4. They were wrong. But I think we are finally entering the age where dogfights will be a thing of the past. In fact, I think we are maybe one generation away from the autonomous fighter plane. Swarms of robots can easily overwhelm most any air defenses, and robots don’t have G tolerances. Skynet is starting to look pretty real.

HammerheadFistpunch > ttyymmnn 07/19/2016 at 17:42

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Here in Utah there are huge gaps in what we can cover effectively for airmed/rescue and even then to get to a level IV trauma center or for specialized care you still have to transfer to a fixed wing. With a 300 mile radius and 300 mph speed, it would cover both of those roles AND carry a better equipped EMS/Rescue crew or heavier equipment like neonatal care or deal with (surprise surprise) much heavier patients that current airmed craft can’t handle so well.

HammerheadFistpunch > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/19/2016 at 17:45

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interesting. Yeah I have friends/family that work in Goverment/military work and its just SOP that if you want a contract you bid WELL bellow what you think you can do it for, then ramp up the costs to reality. The trouble with this approach is (aside from obvious budgeting issues) is the regulatory process that ensures that the contract is meeting the standards of quality double and sometimes triple the cost of what it would take to just do it right from the outset. In time lost, in revisions, in oversight. Its amazingly shortsighted.

MrDakka > ttyymmnn 07/19/2016 at 17:49

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What are you talking about? I remember watching a couple documentaries called Transformers proving that all modern technology is derived from extraterrestrial reconfigurable robots.

In all seriousness, the failure mode analyses on those systems must have been a complete bitch to do

HammerheadFistpunch > Ash78, voting early and often 07/19/2016 at 17:50

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We took my daughter to San Diego a few years ago and we went out to Corando island to the beach near the naval station and to this day she asks when we are going back to “helicopter beach”. She was 2 at the time.

Future next gen S2000 owner > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 17:52

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The concurrent procurement policy isn’t doing anyone any favors either. Producing a bunch of something that isn’t fully baked adds costs vs a fully tested design.

HammerheadFistpunch > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/19/2016 at 17:54

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Yeah, thankfully I think that even the most stubborn in the big 5 sided building have come to the conclusion that concurrency was kinda a bad idea.

XJDano > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 18:19

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At how many units does the bulk purchase reduce unit price & how much can you save by buying in bulk?

HammerheadFistpunch > XJDano 07/19/2016 at 18:20

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You can usually save a few bucks buying the 5 pack, but who needs 5?

XJDano > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 18:22

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The more you shop, the more you save.

Actual grocery store slogan for Shop ‘N Save. My first job.

BringBackTheCommodore > HammerheadFistpunch 07/19/2016 at 19:06

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Google-fu pegs the CH-47 at a cool $38 mil.

UH-60 goes for $21-ish mil.

Or, you can order a metric buttload of Carbon Cubs that have a base price of $190k! http://bit.ly/29WV7W2 That gives you the ability to transport 360 troops (360 2-seat aircraft) and have fun in the process!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch 07/20/2016 at 12:12

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I love the Herk. I like the propellers on the J-model.