Widespread Ford Transmission Problems - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 07/14/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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Do you know anyone who owns a late model Ford Focus or Fiesta? Ask them about the transmission - if you don’t mind a little cussing and screaming.

Starting in 2011, I started getting phone calls at my office about wonky transmissions in Ford Fiestas. And the callers all had eerily similar experiences. The trannys would slip, slam into gear and do any other number of inappropriate things while delivering power to the ground. In 2012, the calls came in about the Focus as well.

Dealers would attempt to fix the gearboxes by playing with the transmission control modules and then eventually they’d poke around inside the trans as well. Sometimes the problem would go away for a while and sometimes it wouldn’t. Eventually, they were usually told to “Live with it,” as if it was a hibernating grizzly in the basement you could just tiptoe around until Spring.

After filing dozens and dozens of lawsuits, even I started to wonder when Ford might come up with a solution. Well, I’ve heard recently that they think they have one. And this TSB is better than the dozens of previous ones they have issued.

And more importantly, Ford has also said they will extend the warranties on the transmissions in these vehicles - to assure the owners that the fix will work. It could be the end of this mess - but you know how that goes. And it is the subject of this week’s Lehto’s Law. Here is the audio:

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And the video:

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Cé hé sin > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 09:10

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Permanent cure.

Can fit all Fiestas and Focuses, never slips, lasts the life of the car with no maintenance.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 09:12

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The Fiesta auto is a miserable lump of dog sh*t.

Can’t do traffic without shuddering non-stop, won’t pick up smoothly from a coast, has a nasty tendency to go into neutral if you rug it before slamming into what seems like a randomly chosen gear.

Not to mention the rest of the Fiesta is garbage too unless you have the ST. Except for the handling. The handling is awesome.

yamahog > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 09:15

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Pretty sure a clutch is a wear item, and fluids still need to be changed.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 09:16

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Agreed. This is the way to have a Fiesta, if you must.

64Mali > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 09:17

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I had a 2014 Fiesta with the Power Shift (Sh*t) transmission. I ended up trading it after having it replaced one already and it needing to be replaced again. First one at 16k miles and it was going again at 35k miles. I got told it was 6-8 weeks for the new parts to be available this last time it was going. It would shudder and slip like you wouldn’t believe. If you stopped on a hill it could roll back, and sometimes do nothing when you pressed the gas. Not very fun.

jimz > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 09:18

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a dual-clutch transmission (DCT) is basically an automated manual transmission, except that it has two (concentric) input shafts instead of one like a regular manual trans. Input shaft 1 feeds into gearsets 1, 3, and 5, and input shaft 2 feeds gearsets 2, 4, and 6. the idea is that sequential upshifts and downshifts can be made rapidly and “seamlessly” by pre-engaging the next gearset and blending the disengagement and engagement of the two clutches.

the DPS6 (PowerShift) is a dual dry clutch setup. and like regular manual transmissions, you can’t slip a dry clutch very much else you’ll shorten its life severely. so if the calibration/programming isn’t right (as it appeared to be in early DPS6 units) then you can get perceived slipping, low speed chattering, and harsh engagements like the rental you drove. and if oil gets on the clutch discs, that can cause no end of issues. Wet clutch DCTs (like some VW/Audi transaxles) can tolerate a lot more clutch slippage similar to most motorcycle clutches, and you can do a lot more to smooth out the clutch engagement w/o risking the life of the clutch.

now, one thing where any DCT will feel different than a normal automatic is if an upshift or downshift skips gears. E.g. it downshifts from 4 to 2, or 5 to 3. Since the gear change is staying on the same input shaft, there’s no opportunity to “blend” clutch disengagements, it has to completely disengage the clutch, shift the dog collar, and re-engage the clutch just as you would do with a manual. Those are inherently slower than a sequential shift and there’s nothing any manufacturer can do about it. I drove a Passat sportwagen with VW’s DCT, and experienced the slow shifting/lurching of that phenomenon too.

Cé hé sin > yamahog 07/14/2016 at 09:19

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Modern manual gearboxes are lubricated for life and it’s quite common - unless you drive a huge mileage - never to have to change a clutch.

Devon lost his burner, understands electric cars don't require front grilles > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 09:22

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We got a rental Focus when my wife’s Honda was getting new airbags. Charming car apart from the transmission that always felt broken. Ours had a hill descent button for engine braking, which seemed to peg that poor Focus at redline going down a hill.

Cé hé sin > jimz 07/14/2016 at 09:23

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Haven’t VW’s small DSGs, which are also dry clutched, had problems too? I recall there was a big recall in China.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 09:32

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Except for the 3500RPM at ~75 MPH. Ford needs to give these cars 6 speeds with some semblance of an overdrive gear (I know top gear is overdrive, but the short axle ratio more than makes up for it). If you live on the highway, the taller gearing of the Powershift is a major improvement.

Echo51 > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 09:36

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The european solution this, but mind you the new fiesta’s use a... refreshed version of the ib5 that came in my escort(1994). They have the same typical hesitation engage reverse gear even! And mine had the fluid for life, that is untill you need to pull an axle and it pisses it all out. Clutches are 100k km, maybe more if you’re a good boy, and most cars should go past that before they’re crushed, so also needs clutch job indeed.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 09:37

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DCTs are a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. They’re bad at everything - even a crappy CVT like Nissan’s is still better for most drivers than Ford’s DCT. Most of today’s torque converter trannys can get the similar MPG numbers as a CVT or DCT.

Cé hé sin > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) 07/14/2016 at 09:37

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The only manual Focus I’ve driven in recent times - in fact the only Focus - was a six speed and didn’t need more than 2,000 rpm for any legal speed, but then it was a diesel. A five speed Fiesta would be a different matter but then they’re commuter cars.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/14/2016 at 09:38

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The 2014 rental fiesta I had once was actually really nice to drive. That automatic transmission made no sense but I actually really liked it when it worked. Driving around in parking lots and using cruise control were the only times it felt actually terrible. Otherwise, it seemed to help acceleration rather than make it feel terrible like most slushboxes. But yeah the suspension was definitely the best part. Plus it only had 200 miles on it so it was much better than some of the "high mileage" rentals I have had with 20 or 30 k miles.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > jimz 07/14/2016 at 09:38

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All of this is on point, but I’d like to discuss one circumstance:

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The best way to handle this is programming the trans to downshift one gear at a time, quickly and often. This allows the transmission to shift sequentially down through gears except in extreme circumstances where you floor it and it has to jump down. Of course, no manufacturer wants tdo that because it ‘hurts’ fuel economy. I don’t think a violent double- or triple-downshift is much of an improvement, though, especially when going down one gear might give you all the power needed.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 09:41

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My girlfriend’s mom has a 2012 Focus. She absolutely hates that hunk of garbage. Yes the car looks nice, drives well (when it works), gets great gas mileage, and is rather nice inside. But it has been in the shop so frequently that you would think it is an old AUDI or something. Too many odd errors too. Like the rear deck speakers melted the wiring or something and weird SYNC errors. Plus of course the transmission that has left her stranded on occasion. They actually ended up replacing the whole transmission under warranty after trying many many fixes. Crazy!

spanfucker retire bitch > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 09:42

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This is the much maligned dry clutch DCT we’re referring to, right? Not the conventional 6-speed torque converter?

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 09:44

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Well yeah but "no maintenance" is still a bit of an exaggeration. You still have to at least change the clutch fluid every once in a while. And eventually the clutch plate should wear out but its much easier to replace than swap out the whole trans for an auto.

SteveLehto > spanfucker retire bitch 07/14/2016 at 09:44

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Yes, the Power Shift. It is maligned for a reason. A good reason.

they-will-know-my-velocity > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 09:48

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Can confirm - Friend’s ‘12 Focus has a stick and is not enraged.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 09:52

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>diesel

That would do it. Their torque curve is conducive to tall gearing. The vast majority of US market Focuses come with a 2.0L N/A gasoline four. The 2.0L only comes with a 5-speed that has very short gearing and the much-taller geared 6-speed Powershift. I don’t think they want you to have to downshift the 5-speed going up steep hills. I’d sooner have a taller-geared 6-speed and have to occasionally downshift or keep it in 5th in hilly terrain, than hear the engine buzz and burn more gas at all other times.

Cé hé sin > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 09:57

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There’s a bit of a culture issue here too. American drivers are used to torque converter automatics and usually have never driven anything else. Anything that doesn’t tie in with their experience is going to be criticised because it doesn’t creep or moves off unevenly or whatever. If however you’ve been brought up with manuals you’re going to be less critical, with the result that some car makers use DCTs or AMTs in some markets and traditional automatics in others.

As an example of this, the Fiat 500. Aisin automatic in the US and Canada, automated manual elsewhere (and it’s fine btw, I’ve driven one). Or the Focus which I understand now has a traditional auto in America but comes with the Powershift as a (rarely chosen) option at my local dealer.

SteveLehto > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 10:00

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Have you driven one of these? I have owned just as many manuals in my life as automatics and the one I drove was screwed up. It had nothing to do with my expectations or driving style. I don’t think people who are familiar with how manuals work will forgive the car for slamming into gear after slipping for a few seconds.

Unless their goal was to design an “auto” that shifted like a “manual that was being worked by someone bad with a clutch.”

Monkey B > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 10:05

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I would have taken this option for my wife’s Focus. It was due for clutches and seals (2nd time, 40k) and it was going to take 12 weeks to get the parts. Traded it, took the hit but she’s happier in her 3 series and I’m happy I don’t have to drive it anymore. I worked on a Focus a few days ago and was reminded of how I hated driving that car.

My Transit Connect (same platform) has a different more conventional trans, but it’s a little buggy too. I’m concerned somewhat and hope mine doesn’t grenade.

jimz > Echo51 07/14/2016 at 10:08

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The european solution this

except the PowerShift was designed by Ford of Europe. it’s even available in more EU/RoW cars than it is in the US; the Kuga uses it while the Escape uses the 6F35, and the C-Max elsewhere uses the DPS6 while the US ones get the HF35.

Cé hé sin > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 10:08

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I hired a Focus 2.0 diesel with the DCT in 2009. It was fine, although it felt disappointingly like a conventional automatic with slushy gearchanges. Fine otherwise.

jimz > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 10:11

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car sales in the US are declining fast enough without “lot poison” like a manual transmission.

Cé hé sin > jimz 07/14/2016 at 10:15

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It’s actually by Getrag although Ford may claim it as their own.

SteveLehto > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 10:18

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Where was this? In the US, the DCT in question was first put in service in 2011. Are you sure it is the same transmission?

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 10:24

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I might be the only person on the planet who hasn’t had severe problems with one. Despite being a 2012, I don’t have the clutch and seal problems plenty of other people do. The TCM offed itself recently, but the extended warranty covered that. A TSB software update flashed on last November turned it from a dim witted, slow shifting transmission to something approaching good. The upshifts are far faster and smoother, and it downshifts smoothly and somewhat intelligently. I dare say it’s great, sometimes. The 2014 my wife had as a loaner last fall was equally smooth and quick.

I can’t say I’d buy another Focus with this transmission, but I’m inclined to drive mine until it dies. The car is good looking, handles well, sips gas, and has been reliable (one dead coil at 47k covered under warranty, the TCM (warranty), and a persistent rattle in the headliner have been my only issues over 76k+ miles). Maybe I lucked out buying one at the very end of the model year. I bet the QA people at Ford and their suppliers were aware of the problems and were hyper vigilant about the transmission parts. I guess we’ll see how long it lives.

Pity Ford bungled the Powershift so badly. I think DSGs are an improvement over traditional automatics in small cars, but at this point I can’t see anyone moving in that direction with all the bad blood the Focus and Fiesta caused.

jimz > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 10:29

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between the DPS6 and the early MT82 failures, I have to wonder what is going on with Getrag.

Cé hé sin > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 10:29

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France. Ford and Volvo began using it in 2008 .

The US ones come from a different plant .

Edit: the earlier ones are apparently wet clutch.

SteveLehto > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 10:32

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Weird. I wonder how different (if at all) the two are.

Cé hé sin > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 10:38

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If I understand it correctly, the one used from 2008 is a wet clutch unit while the one made in Mexico is dry clutch.

See here There appear to be two different units but both by Ford/Getrag. The older one has some input by LuK, a German transmission and component maker who did the Audi CVT and their present seven speed DCT, as well.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 10:39

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Haven’t listened or watched, because time right now. But my sister in law has a ‘13 focus and has already had the transmission replaced a couple of months ago.

SteveLehto > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/14/2016 at 10:45

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She is not alone.

jimz > Cé hé sin 07/14/2016 at 10:51

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the only reason I replaced the clutch on my SRT-4 at 140,000 miles was because the release fork wore out, and might as well put in a new clutch while the transaxle is out.

Echo51 > jimz 07/14/2016 at 11:05

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Designed/claimed by ford of europe cause you ‘mericans only know how to build trucks. Stereotypes aside, the manual is way more common over here to my knowledge, thus why i said the european solution

Brian Silvestro > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 11:10

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My father purchased a ‘14 Focus after I advised against it, citing the transmission as a weak point. I don’t even think he had the car a year before he got rid of it. The gearbox was terrible.

bhtooefr > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) 07/14/2016 at 11:22

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The 1.0T has a 6-speed that I suspect would be geared somewhat tall, and the Fiesta 1.0T’s 5-speed is geared diesel-tall. Like, almost identical MPH vs. RPM to my 99.5 Golf TDI.

wagon guy now drives a boostang > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 11:42

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I have a 2014 Focus. The transmission is fine, and it drives really well. Of course I knew about the DCT issue and bought the five speed manual...

StuntmanDan > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 16:19

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I drove a Hyundai Veloster with a DCT that did something similar to what you described. Like somebody slipping the clutch then dumping it. It was annoying. I wonder if those have issues too or the manufacturers are just struggling to make the DCT work well? I’ve also driven a Focus and Fiesta with the DCT and don’t remember it feeling too weird. I was more thrown off by the name PowerShift.

jimz > SteveLehto 07/14/2016 at 21:27

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wet clutches are more expensive; they pretty much have to be multi-plate units (again, like motorcycle clutches) and sealing is a challenge.

jimz > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 07/14/2016 at 21:34

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no, they’re a solution to the problem of driveline losses. a conventional (planetary) automatic transmission still takes power to operate the hydraulic pump(s), even though much has been done to reduce the power required to run those pumps. CVTs sap even more power because they require a shitload of hydraulic pressure to operate. it’s partially offset by keeping the engine operating at more efficient points. a DCT, on the other hand, is about as efficient as a gearbox can be. an engaged clutch has no losses, and the only losses in the box are bearing/bushing drag, gear meshing, and slinging oil around.

jimz > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) 07/14/2016 at 21:35

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no, my sister has a 2012 Fiesta. It went in (I think) once for the TCM re-flash, but has worked OK so far.

Mexifinn > SteveLehto 07/15/2016 at 09:58

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Very interesting! I have a Focus ST, so with a manual I’m not affected by this. My neighbor’s daughter does have one, and in fact her car wouldn’t start one day - turns out it was a transmission error which was covered under power-train warranty (she was past bumper to bumper). I’ll have to tell him about this...

But, I do have one qualm with your use of the term “new-fangled.” The dual clutch gearboxes are not brand new. VW/Audi was using them over 10 years ago in commercially available cars. I had an Audi A3 with one and it was a fantastic transmission. It’s the only automatic I will ever own (both our cars now are manual, including our 2012 Dieselgate Jetta Sportwagen).

I did, however, drive a few automatic focuses and have to say Ford ruined their DSG implementation. They made it behave like a regular slushy automatic. No crisp shifts like in the VAG implementation, so it doesn’t have the same magic to me...

A few fun facts - the BMW SMG they put in the M3 was an earlier version of the automated automatic/clutched gearboxes and it came out in 2001. Also, Saab experimented with a clutchless manual (it had no pedal, but shifter like a manual - computers worked the clutch instead of your foot).

Anyhow, I love the Podcast!

SteveLehto > Mexifinn 07/15/2016 at 10:06

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Thanks. The use of the technical term “new-fangled” was to convey the nuance of the notion that it was unusual and foreign to the people getting these transmissions. Many products are not “new” in the sense that they have been around for a while but they still seem “new” to the consumer who has never seen one before.

ateamfan42 > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) 07/18/2016 at 13:52

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Unlikely to happen in the US, sadly.

Automakers are scared lazy drivers won’t downshift their cars when needed, lugging the engine and putting excessive wear and tear on things. So they keep the manuals geared low so even top gear will provide some degree of torque delivery to the wheels. I know I’m not the only person that finds the situation frustrating.