Le Mans mini rant

"Joest" (Joest) 06/20/2016 at 10:12 • Filed to: None

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After seeing seeing a lot of people crying and feeling sad for Toyota and calling them the real winners and not giving Porsche the respect they deserve for winning back to back. I have decided I wanted to express some frustration. To me yesterday’s finish is what makes Le Mans the absolute best race in the world. Each and every team has to be perfect for a shot to win. You can not relax not even for 3 minutes. Porsche was the best this weekend. I would like to see this weekend celebrated for the greatness that is Le Mans not mourned because a team almost won.

Anyways I am awful at writing. I hope what I am trying to say comes across.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Joest 06/20/2016 at 10:22

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I think you nailed it and I agree with you 100%.

To win at Le Mans you have to go full throttle longer than everyone else. Toyota’s break down happened at really unfortunate timing, but it is what it is. If your car didn’t make it, it didn’t make it.

I was pretty sad that the Corvette team couldn’t keep up but all the discussion about Ford and Ferrari sandbagging all season is crap. You couldn’t keep up and the officials even made the Ford and the Ferrari heavier while giving Chevy more gas before the race. Ford and Ferrari didn’t even have a chance to practice driving their cars after the forced modifications.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Joest 06/20/2016 at 10:24

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I’m a huge Toyota fan, and I get what you’re saying. It was a big deal for Porsche, and they did an awesome job. I think the reason that the Toyota failure is getting so much attention is because of how big of a deal it would have been for them to win, as the team with the smallest budget and the fact that it would have been both the company’s first Le Mans win ever and only the second time that a Japanese manufacturer has won. Those are both very significant accomplishments, which were dashed at a point where they seemed all but guaranteed.

It’s as if the Red Sox were up by three runs in the bottom of the 9th of game seven of the World Series and gave up a grand slam to the Yankees. Nobody would be talking as much about how the Yankees won as they would about the Yankees last minute failure. (Far from a perfect comparison, I know, but it’s early and I’m still half asleep. lol)

StingrayJake > Joest 06/20/2016 at 10:27

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I’d say it’s a bit like people complaining about Rossi’s fuel mileage run to the Indy 500 win. Rossi made it work and fairly won. If he’d run out of gas on the back straight and stopped short of the line, somebody else would have fairly won. You have to finish and he did.

At Le Mans, you have to make your car last. Whether it fails in Hour 1 or Hour 24, you have to finish. Porsche finished, Toyota didn’t. The Germans won fair and square.

Now I think you can still feel bad for Toyota’s misfortune, but Porsche won and nothing can change that. Unless Ford decides they want credit for 1OA and somehow gets the ACO to negate every LMP1 and LMP2 finish above them.

EL_ULY > Joest 06/20/2016 at 10:28

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Another huge Toyota fan here. 24HR of LeMans is an ENDURANCE race. That means all the way to the end. Not close to the end.

Absolutely heartbreaking, yes. Oh god yes. Painfully heartbreaking.

Though, Porsche was not the best car out there. The word “best” can be an opinion. Toyota was the faster and much more dominating car as so where their drivers. The power failure was all Toyota. It cost them the race.

I see it as if Usain Bolt was yards away from everyone and his shoe lace comes undone and he falls short of the victory line.

JDIGGS > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 06/20/2016 at 10:28

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What I think is crap is Ford got a time penalty because they cheated the slow zones (when everyone else was slowing with the speed limiter they just kept on going) also they were penalized for faulty wheel speed sensors another thing that allows them to cheat.

This would have caused FERRARI to win, except they were penalized on Ford’s request because their leader light system was broken.

So there you have it FORDS ONLY ABILITY TO WIN LEMANS only attainable by having Ferrari penalized for their leader lights not working.

Wow, good job Ford you really earned it, oh wait.

f86sabre > Joest 06/20/2016 at 10:29

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You have to finish. People were saying it was the saddest thing they had seen in racing. I was at Le Mans in 2013, that was the saddest thing I’ve seen. I was in Vegas in 2011 and that was the saddest too. They lost a race. the timing was super bad, but there will be other races.

Clemsie McKenzie > Joest 06/20/2016 at 10:30

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I absolutely agree with you, and Porsche deserved that win. After all, the Toyota broke down. It’s a fantastic effort to win twice in three attempts.

It doesn’t make it any less heartbraking for Toyota, having been the ultimate outsiders since they came back to Le Mans, only to come oh so close at winning it.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > JDIGGS 06/20/2016 at 10:59

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So both teams got penalized and Ford is the scammer?

OK.

Ferrari wouldn’t have been penalized unless they were in fact doing something wrong. Do you honestly think that Ferrari wouldn’t have called something out on the Ford?

CTSenVy > Joest 06/20/2016 at 11:03

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Yeah it was crushing to see the 5 car roll to a stop in front of the pits, but the 2 teamed earned their win. That’s what I love about racing. It not the best driver or the fastest car, it the team that earned the victory by getting there first that wins.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > Joest 06/20/2016 at 11:19

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I dont think anyone is mourning. (if you are, you should probably get some deeper help because it’s just a race.)

But people should be allowed to complain. I know I’ve complained about BOP stuff before, but really that is how LeMans goes. It’s a bummer sometimes, and you better be ready to hear people tell you how it’s a bummer, but the sadness is just a present as the happiness. There are more losers than winners... and that’s just fine, because racing.

kanadanmajava1 > EL_ULY 06/20/2016 at 11:29

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Toyota’s power failure made them lose the first place but their slow action to make the correct decision made them lose the whole race. When their power was fading they should have driven to the pits or park before the finish line. But they drove over the finish line and parked 20 meters after it. Which is absolutely the worse place to be in the last lap with a broken car. Help was within yelling distance but basically it was still nearly 14 km away.

I’m pretty sure that guy who made the ridiculous decision to limp over the finish must be rolling in agony. Getting 2nd and 3rd place isn’t what they were looking for but two trophies is still better than one.

Thomas Donohue > kanadanmajava1 06/20/2016 at 12:23

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This was covered in an other post, but your last lap needs to be below six minutes to count. So sitting before the finish line and waiting for the Porsche to come around again would have been 7+ minutes and resulted in the same decision.

chaozbandit > JDIGGS 06/20/2016 at 12:28

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From what I dug up on Reddit, Ferrari reported Ford on two occassions for faulty leader lights during the night and they complied both times pitting for repairs.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Joest 06/20/2016 at 12:30

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Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > chaozbandit 06/20/2016 at 13:16

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And it doesn’t matter anyhow, they wouldn’t have been penalized if they weren’t doing something wrong.

kanadanmajava1 > Thomas Donohue 06/20/2016 at 13:50

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Then the pitting would have been the only viable choice. That might have been unsuccessful attempt as well but it would have been worthwhile to try.

I thought that the limit was 10 minutes. Maybe the commentators said something that got me confused about the numbers.

JDIGGS > chaozbandit 06/20/2016 at 15:29

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Well that is good information, didn’t see this happen so if ford pitted to fix this of course Ferrari should as well. I do think their should be an exemption for fixing lighting etc on the last lap as we know it is light out. But if your info is correct then I take back what I said.

JDIGGS > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 06/20/2016 at 15:34

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It was for their leader lights indicating who is winning the race, and it was at the end of the race. I think that’s a weak penalty vs. speeding through caution speed limited zones and having faulty wheel speed sensors. I don’t feel the penalties are proportionate but in reality we probably don’t have the information to make this determination, e.g how much actual time was saved by speeding through slow zones and how much time was a penalty factor being added for the Ford, also how much could have been manipulated by faulty wheel sensors on the Ford. Was this part Faulty on all gt’s indicating purposeful deception? Did as 1 person claim Ford indeed pit in the middle of the race to repair their leader lights? Did Ford actually just pit in the race and happen to fix them as well as it just worked out for them or did they make a special stop to fix leader lights themselves? Not sure if this is true or not.

Anyway It seems these things should be looked at and more information presented to the public.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > JDIGGS 06/20/2016 at 16:16

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You’re asking for a situation with ZERO variables in a 24 hour race with different cars that have different layouts and engines.

Variables happen, when and where a penalty is assessed is not the fault of the opposing teams. If Ford did in fact intentionally put on bad wheel sensors to play games then shame on them because it’s illegal.

The sandbagging argument is silly, there’s nothing illegal about taking it easy on the cars through out part of the season. Deceptive - definitely. Illegal - not a chance.

And again - Ferrari would call Ford out for something wrong on their car every chance they could get. Don’t paint Ford out to be some whiney tattle tail.