Suspenders

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 04/07/2016 at 16:20 • Filed to: None

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I don’t really know a lot of about suspension but i think I know enough to throw an eyebrow at this

No, not the hosts, they already have their own eyebrown throw for them, what I mean is the GC air lift suspension in off road 2 setting, the one that give you the most clearance appears to give you no:

A. down travel - like at all.

B. Articulation - probably because of “A”

Seems like this combo would make traction hard to get by way of not being able to keep wheels on the ground with any sufficient force. Am I wrong? In any case, it sure looks like you have to compromise a lot to get that extra clearance.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 04/07/2016 at 16:37

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If you’ve got torque vectoring or some other form of limiting wheel slip then you wouldn’t really need all 4 tires on the ground would you?

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 04/07/2016 at 16:38

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I guess it depends on what the other wheel is on. As for the GC, there is a electronically locking eGerotor rear diff, but the front doesn’t have torque vectoring.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 04/07/2016 at 17:05

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Well shitballs.

WiscoProud > HammerheadFistpunch 04/07/2016 at 17:32

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At 3:25 they say its comparable to "the best that Range Rover has". While I'm sure its nice, I have a feeling an LR4 would walk all over it. Thoughts?

HammerheadFistpunch > WiscoProud 04/07/2016 at 17:41

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yes. I mean, the LR4 has impressive articulation for independent, and the high suspension setting doesn’t seem to interfere with that too much...and the body is higher up off the ground to start with everywhere it matters. I’ll put it this way, a defender 90 is comparable to a wrangler like a Range rover is comparable to a GC, i.e. same idea but not directly comparable.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > HammerheadFistpunch 04/07/2016 at 17:58

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This is where traction control comes into play. Most modern vehicles rely on the abs system to perform this, operating in reverse, and jamming on the brakes on individual wheels to prevent an open diff from letting the wheel with the least traction spin out. It’s a massive load on the axle shaft but it does work... mostly. If you watch any videos of the KL or BU offroad, you can watch wheels in the air momentarily locking up. I haven’t watched the above video but I imagine it’s the same. Obviously it’s not ideal, but it’s much cheaper and reasonably effective alternative to an LSD.

HammerheadFistpunch > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 04/07/2016 at 18:07

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Well the WKII uses a electronically managed version of their gerotor eLSD in the rear with full lockup capabilities in addition to brake based eternal locking solutions for the front but brake based system...although they at first glace appear to work like a locking diff or LSD...don’t actually bias torque and they are only capable of sending 50% of the axle torque potential to either wheel. It works well enough in most cases because with low range gear reduction there is a surplus of torque but its inferior to a locker or LSD in many respects.

In any case, just keeping the wheel on the ground will accomplish the same thing or better than even the most sophisticated traction management solution.

TheOnelectronic > Party-vi 04/07/2016 at 18:11

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Four wheels on the ground will always provide more traction than two, but a vehicle without any sort of locking or LSD would be even worse off since the airborne wheels would spin freely.

TheOnelectronic > HammerheadFistpunch 04/07/2016 at 18:13

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As I remember the LR4 doesn’t raise itself as high as it can go unless you trigger the special “help I’m stuck” mode.

I will say, it compared extremely favorably to my Tacoma, although it didn’t get taken on many trails since NM trees will pinstripe the shit out of anything you drive past them.

HammerheadFistpunch > TheOnelectronic 04/07/2016 at 18:15

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an LR4 compared favorable? And yeah with the high mode on the LR$...its because Land Rover knows that you need down travel for suspension to work, so they don’t top out the system unless they intend you not drive it far.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > HammerheadFistpunch 04/07/2016 at 20:11

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I disagree. A wheel just sitting with only it’s unsprung mass pushing it down won’t have much traction. Sure it’s a little better than a wheel just hanging in the air, but open diff vs open diff, the vehicle with the wheel hanging in the air and the brake on that wheel clamped on is more likely to move than a vehicle with the wheel just sitting on the ground and free to spin. Yes, it’s not going to perform as well as a locker or LSD in the same situation, but it’s far better than minimal traction. It’s basically the same as having one wheel on ice. Obviously though any traction control system (brakes, locker, etc.) is going to function better with wheels on the ground vs in the air, but abs-based traction control is far and away the cheapest and easiest system out there to implement (it’s just a software mod for equipment the vehicle is required to have anyway), and if done properly is definitely better than nothing.

HammerheadFistpunch > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 04/07/2016 at 20:19

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Well a wheel shouldn’t be just sitting limp on the ground, there should be sufficient stroke left in the shock and spring do that it’s actively being pushed into the ground with at least the linear rate of the spring plus unsprung mass. That’s the point of adequate downtravel. Electronic system are better than nothing but certainly no panacea and they certainly have their faults too (too easy to overuse/overheat)

nermal > HammerheadFistpunch 04/07/2016 at 20:56

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The worst part about that vid is when they’re climbing the hill and hard on the throttle. You can hear the engine revving up excessively.

That’s how you break stuff.

HammerheadFistpunch > nermal 04/07/2016 at 21:08

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It’s also how you have to drive sometimes with these electronic/compromised system...but you’re right...It’s exactly how you break stuff

Dru > HammerheadFistpunch 04/08/2016 at 14:14

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WJ Master Race. Solid Axle all the things.

HammerheadFistpunch > Dru 04/08/2016 at 14:17

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was always a fan of the WJ, my grandma had one and I drove that thing all kinds of places. slow as a dog though with the 4.0.

Dru > HammerheadFistpunch 04/08/2016 at 14:36

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I’ve had one for about 5 years now. 04 Overland. I have been itching for a lift and some nice tires to do some wheeling/overlanding. Life keeps getting in my way. I got the HO v8 because, though reliable, the inline 6 was miserable to drive.

HammerheadFistpunch > Dru 04/08/2016 at 14:43

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You ever visit overland.kinja.com?

Dru > HammerheadFistpunch 04/08/2016 at 14:46

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The Overland and Expedition blog full of drool worthy photos and top notch writing? I might have heard of it.

HammerheadFistpunch > Dru 04/08/2016 at 14:49

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I just haven’t seen you around, but I like the things what fer you said. If you have anything to post give me a shot and we’ll get it up

Dru > HammerheadFistpunch 04/08/2016 at 14:59

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I may not have posted anything, but I also changed my display name a while back. I'll make that my motivation to create some content and share. I also have an '85 4Runner collecting dust in my garage...