Lexus GS-F is a Horrific Value and Needs to be Addressed

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind) 02/17/2016 at 21:45 • Filed to: Lexus

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I still cannot figure out what the hell is going on with the pricing for the GS-F. It has a 5.0L V8 that has a compression ratio of 12.3:1. That gives you an engine pushing out 467hp and a late arriving 389lb-ft @ 4,800rpm. There are a lot of interesting engine tricks and a torque vectoring differential that make for a 4,034lbs, RWD sedan that starts at $84,440 .

My issues are that it isn’t a track car, the engine is made for a manual that doesn’t exist, and it makes no sense for this to cost $84,440. It shouldnt even be called a GS-F, the damn thing is a GS500 F-Sport! There, I said it!! But allow me to justify my crazed ravings with some observations.

Here we have an Audi S6. Starting at $70,900, you get Quattro AWD standard as well as the 4.0L TSFI V8 pushing out 450hp and 406lb-ft of torque that stays flat from 1,400rpm to 5,700rpm. Though the S6 weighs about 400lbs more than the GS-F, its performance is right in line with the Lexus sedan even when this Audi is on its worst days (assuming it still starts up, of course).

Your fuel efficiency in the S6: 18 city and 27 highway
Your fuel efficiency in the GS-F: 16 city and 24 highway with almost 2.5 gallons less in fuel-tank capacity.

How about something more track focused like the Cadillac CTS-V? It starts at $83,995 with a supercharged V8 delivering a world-burning 640hp and 630lb-ft @ 3600rpm. It does weigh about 100lbs more than the Lexus GS-F and the fuel economy is worse, but all that can be forgiven with the sub 12 second quarter mile time. I mean the thing is one second quicker in every way to the GS-F, much like the M5 and E63 AMG I’ll add. But come on, let’s be honest here and admit the “V” and the other full on perfomance models aren’t comparable to the GS-F. You know what is though...

The CTS V-Sport.

For $60,950 you can get the 3.6T pushing out 420hp and 430lb-ft while keeping the same fuel economy as the GS-F. The CTS in “V-Sport” form will start out around 4,000lbs and will hit 60mph in 4.4 seconds, just like the GS-F and even match the quarter mile time of the Lexus that costs $24k more.

In fact, when you get into it, the GS-F performs closer to the BMW 550i and the (defunct for the US) Mercedes-Benz E550. All of which are cars around $60k to $75K when loaded up. Hell, even the old Jaguar XFR started at $83,550 with the 510hp supercharged 5.0L while the Supercharged trim gave you a 470hp Jaaaag for just $71k.

My lawd, I just checked and even the Maserati Ghibli S Q4 starts at $78,150 (before the $15k discounts thrown in just for considering the damn thing) and will be a slightly worse performer to the Lexus without even attempting to be an interesting car in front of the exhaust pipes.

I point all this out because I think the GS-F should really be the GS500 F-Sport and cost $64k like the GS450h. There is another tier of performance that Lexus isn’t hitting for its price point. The upcoming LC500 uses the same engine as the RC-F and GS-F.

I think the RC-F is fine as a full blown “F” model since it competes with the compact coupes, much like an IS-F would be great with this 5.0L V8 (and a damn manual because when peak torque is over 4,000rpm, you need to be in control of the gears). The GS is a class up using the same engine, meaning it should be a step down in performance, hence an F-Sport. Finally, the LC500 is a class above the GS and uses the same engine so it makes sense that it is just a regular old trim like all the competition!

Lexus, seriously, what are doing? The GS-F is a great car, but in the wrong segment. Now, keep the V8 and add in the hybrid doodads from the GS450h and then you’ll have yourselves an “F” Sedan that’s worth the lease payment.

AM3R shamefully returns > Wobbles the Mind 02/17/2016 at 21:56

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For $85k I'm getting a CPO M5 no question. Or a lightly optioned S6, or a CPO E63. Basically, I'm not even considering the Lexus for $85k. I really want to like the GS. I feel like it would be a great daily driver, but damn Lexus completely butchered the price.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Wobbles the Mind 02/17/2016 at 22:02

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The GS F is probably too expensive. It will never get a manual. Lexus doesn’t build one and never will again. The auto in the RC/GS F is simply incredible and suits the car just fine. In Sport S and S+ modes it holds gears very well, will auto throttle blip on a down change and shifts faster than any human possibly ever could. The GS F is already a great car as it is, and would be an astounding value if it were at least $10k cheaper. I’m sure Lexus justifies their price as there are basically no options on the GS F, and all the competitors easily exceed the Lexus once you start adding extras.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Wobbles the Mind 02/17/2016 at 22:02

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Lol buying new

For that price you could have a CPO W221 S65 with a 6 liter bi-turbo V12 that makes 621 hp and 738 lb-ft of torque and still have money left over.

EDIT: like this one, for example: http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…

DoYouEvenShift > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches 02/17/2016 at 22:09

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Use your left over money wisely. These can be had at a reasonable price.

DoYouEvenShift > Wobbles the Mind 02/17/2016 at 22:10

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V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > DoYouEvenShift 02/17/2016 at 22:15

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Key word was CPO . But believe me I know what you mean. At least my mechanic offers free towing!

Wobbles the Mind > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 02/17/2016 at 22:23

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I don’t know though. Even considering the GS-F as a $70k car that is only offered at the $85k fully loaded price, it is still overpriced compared to its better equipped rivals (which range from $60k to $75k optioned out). The GS-F does not compete at all with the CTS-V, M5, E63, or XFR so those prices arent relevant.

I just don’t see how the automatic trans would work well with that engine. Its set for the Lexus brand and suspension style, but that engine is completely different. Everything about the car seems focused on comfort and technology while they have this V8 which is tuned like a sports car engine. The vehicle is great, the engine is great, however they don’t work together, especially as the vehicles get larger and heavier. There’s a disconnect in intents and purposes however I think that engine would be perfect with torque filling electric motors. There is something going on with this sedan but I don’t know what the “real” purpose of this GS-F is yet.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Wobbles the Mind 02/17/2016 at 22:28

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I feel that the GS-F is made for a really specific crowd. I happen to know that my dad and I love the GS-F mainly because it’s like an M5, S6, E63 but without the German costs of maintenance. (Which may not even be THAT high, but we’re one of those families that think Germans are money pits because we owned a used 328i that wasn’t repaired properly after an accident (THAT WAS FROM A FAMILY FRIEND TOO ASSHOLE))

Dad: It’s fast, it’s cool, it’s a reliable M5 pretty much.

Me: It comes in orange.

I will be staring at the used listings for the GS-F LIKE A HAWK.

And it could always be worse, before the RC-F prices OFFICIALLY came out, it was rumored to be over $100k, it was practically dead on arrival.

thatsmr > Wobbles the Mind 02/17/2016 at 23:15

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Back to there's always someone/something better than you/what you have. Nobody in a GS-F is ever going to stoplight race you, and few will track. Difference is , in 20 years this will still be the quietest, most dependable, lowest maintenance 467hp car orlove says you can buy for the price of a civic.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Wobbles the Mind 02/17/2016 at 23:18

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It’s gotta be Lexus reliability, which is admittedly rare in this segment. However, buyers in this segment generally don’t put reliability above power and speed. I am intriguingly watching the sales of the F models to see how successful this sales proposition is.

I wonder how many people will take the horsepower hit for maintenance, considering that they still are going to have more performance than they can really use on the street and more than twice the power of most other cars on the road.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Wobbles the Mind 02/18/2016 at 00:20

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It’s a Yamaha developed engine. It feels like no other engine.

Bytemite > Wobbles the Mind 02/18/2016 at 02:02

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Yeah but for about 15k more you get a car that isn’t at the shop half the time. So really, it is the better value.

asindhidude > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 02/18/2016 at 07:54

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Wait. Why not throw a small supercharger on the thing? Fix the lown end tq problem. It would work great with the aisin box. Then you’d be grip limited just like the Americans.

asindhidude > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches 02/18/2016 at 07:54

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Aaaaand then Brabus everything.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > asindhidude 02/18/2016 at 08:03

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Nien. Ve do ja renntech.

wiffleballtony > Wobbles the Mind 02/18/2016 at 09:45

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This segment as a whole is a complete waste of money.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > asindhidude 02/20/2016 at 00:54

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I mean yeah, I would do that but when was the last time Toyota supercharged an engine? The MR2? Nah, if they're smart, they'll make the Lexus F division a combination of BMW M and i brands. Toyota is known for their advanced hybrid systems, put that tech in their performance cars and beat the Germans to the punch. So far only Porsche is doing performance hybrids

TA22 > Wobbles the Mind 08/01/2019 at 18:32

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Dumbest article ever...I own a GSF and it is not designed for comfort (feel every bump on the road) and not overpriced for the vehicle you get. I’ve looked at S6s and dealerships had them listed for the same price as the Lexus. Plus you have the maintenance expenses of a European car. Caddy is a dying company whose on borrowed time. My only point of contention is the hp and torque...felt Toyota could’ve done better. Don’t mind the automatic transmission, it handles just fine (I own a 74 TA22 GT 5spd so its not that I can’tdrive one ) but remember its an exec car in Japan...the car is marketed just fine. If you want one then great...if not buy the Audi. Next worthless topic.