"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
12/29/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None
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"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
12/29/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None | 6
| 14 |
They call it gas lighting - when someone acts like you are losing your mind for believing in something that is true. Dealers do this to consumers as well - when it comes to defective cars. “Engine knock? Oh no, I can’t hear anything. And if I did, I’d say it sounds normal,” the service writer yells to you as your car’s engine self-destructs.
This is a common complaint I hear about from consumers. It often happens with problems that are widespread for which there is no fix. Think recent dual-clutch transmissions. Or, I’ve heard a few involving engine noise. But their denial of the existence of the problem doesn’t make it go away.
Nor does it relieve them of liability for the repair - or their exposure under the Lemon Law. So, don’t take “No” (or, “You’re crazy”) for an answer.
Bring it back in, to other dealers if necessary, and keep treating the problem like it is real. Especially because it is. Get repair orders. And then, if it gets that far, call an attorney. I explain it all in this week’s podcast. Here is the audio (astute observers may notice that it is substantially longer than the video):
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And the video (which is shorter than the audio, the reason for which would not be obvious from the video):
Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 25 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .
This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.
Justin Hughes
> SteveLehto
12/29/2016 at 09:15 |
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Not directly related, but when we were buying my wife’s CPO Ford Flex we complained that the front rotors were warped, since there was the telltale pulse through the brake pedal. They just kept repeating “It passed our [insert a very high number here] point CPO inspection.” Apparently the inspection doesn’t include brakes.
We bought it anyway, knowing that a brake job was easy and expecting to do one at some point. We didn’t expect to be doing it just two months later when the brakes went metal on metal. The dealer still said it wasn’t their problem, since brakes are wear items and not covered under warranty. We don’t use that dealer anymore.
Steve in Manhattan
> SteveLehto
12/29/2016 at 09:25 |
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Click and Clack always advised that you get them to write (or do it yourself) “customer suspects piston slap/bad lifters/whatever” on the repair order to preserve a warranty claim.
OPPOsaurus WRX
> SteveLehto
12/29/2016 at 09:26 |
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I saw the topic and thought I should really pay attention to this one. You even talk about the specific issue I’m anticipating. (orange wheels are just photoshop. How about some more ‘Tales from the Tow Truck’ for a future episode?
TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
> SteveLehto
12/29/2016 at 09:32 |
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A condescending service writer at a Ford dealer once told my dad that there was nothing wrong with his Explorer after it vomited about a quart of oil on the driveway. Protip, don’t talk down to a guy who was pulling engines at 10 years old about diagnosing cars. He’ll call you a pencil jockey and ask to talk to someone who is actually useful.
Turns out they overfilled the engine and it blew the front main seal. They replaced it and the rear seal free of charge (how magnanimous of them).
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SteveLehto
> Steve in Manhattan
12/29/2016 at 09:41 |
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Yes, I always say to have them write down “customer complained of . . .”
My X-type is too a real Jaguar
> SteveLehto
12/29/2016 at 10:15 |
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I’m picturing the first vacation movie where the brand new Family Truckster is dieseling in the driveway, “All new cars do that honey”
DipodomysDeserti
> Justin Hughes
12/29/2016 at 10:41 |
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Good luck finding a dealer that will replace brakes or rotors under warranty. When I bought my wife’s CPO BMW they transferred the remainder of the original maintenance package to us (not sure if they still do it, but you get your maintenance covered by BMW for the length of the factory warranty). With about 100 miles left on the free maintenance program, I brought the car in for brakes and mentioned a slight pulse in the pedal (hoping they would swap out rotors). I got new rotors and pads on all four corners for free at 49,800 miles. That was nice.
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Justin Hughes
> DipodomysDeserti
12/29/2016 at 10:52 |
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Very cool. I know pads and rotors aren’t generally covered under warranty, but my beef is that the rotors were very clearly warped before we bought it, and they refused to fix it, falling back on the “it passed our CPO inspection” line. As Steve has said before, many dealers don’t even do the CPO inspection even though they claim to. I looked up Ford’s CPO checklist, and right there in black and white is brake pads and rotors. Anyone who drove this car would’ve noticed the vibration.
But like I said, we bought the car anyway because the rest of it was awesome, and just knew we (I) would have to replace the brakes pretty soon, which I’ve done a zillion times before on other cars. We just didn’t expect them to go metal-on-metal as quickly as they did. The aftermarket replacements I installed have worked perfectly.
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DipodomysDeserti
> Justin Hughes
12/29/2016 at 11:04 |
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Yeah, that’s crappy. I had a CPO 335d throw and engine code which ended up requiring the whole top of the engine to be torn down. I have a really good SA, and he was honest that it looked like the techs just reset the code when the car was traded in. It was no hair off my back as my wife got to cruise around in a brand new BMW for a month.
Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> SteveLehto
12/29/2016 at 11:15 |
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I have to say I am so very relieved that Subaru replaced the short block in my outback. I was very worried they would tell me over and over again that 1 qt of oil per 2000 miles on a 25,000 mile engine was acceptable usage.
jimz
> SteveLehto
12/29/2016 at 19:50 |
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this just reinforces my thinking that a lot of lemon law claims are hastened along by incompetent dealer service departments. Any time I’ve taken a vehicle of mine (either Dodge or Ford, ‘cos that’s all I’ve ever had) for a repair, the service writer has always put “Cust. States” or “C/S” with my problem statement verbatim. I guess it helps living in an area with a glut of said dealers; at least there’s some competition.
seeing it from the other side (warranty parts analysis,) I’d wager a not-insignificant amount of dealer service departments who give customers the run-around on problems like you described in the podcast are trying to cover their asses because they submit a lot of warranty claims which get rejected.
BTW, I gave my dad a copy of your Turbine Car book for Christmas (not the signed one you sent me.) He’s really enjoying it.
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SteveLehto
> jimz
12/30/2016 at 14:04 |
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You are correct on all of the above. I have said for years that most “lemons” are actually caused by service departments. And many of them (the dept’s) feel that they are hindered by the warranty claims procedures. They bitch they are not paid enough to do proper dignosis and so on.
And I do see disproportionate numbers of lemons from some dealers over others (And it is not always a function of volume).
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jimz
> SteveLehto
12/30/2016 at 15:07 |
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In some cases they have reason to bitch. When Daimler was busy eviscerating Chrysler, one of their cost cutting actions was to knock the amount of labor paid for warranty work down to 2/10ths book time.
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SteveLehto
> jimz
12/31/2016 at 16:42 |
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I agree. And on harder to diagnose problems, it might take a bit longer than whatever “book” time is.