"Scary__goongala!" (corymagee) 11/30/2016 at 20:59 • Filed to: None

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  studying for a business ethics final.

DrJohannVegas > Scary__goongala! 11/30/2016 at 21:11

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Just remember: If you go to school in Texas, concealed carry is okay now.

Scary__goongala! > DrJohannVegas 11/30/2016 at 21:18

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in colleges? I can conceal carry in WV but not while I’m on campus.

DrJohannVegas > Scary__goongala! 11/30/2016 at 21:22

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Yea, the TX legislature passed SB11 earlier this year, effective August 1. That law expands the state’s existing concealed carry onto public campuses, with some caveats. Probably not necessary to explain the whole thing here, but it was...contentious. (You might expect that, given the median political leaning on most college campuses.)

I’ve got a lot of conflicted/complicated feelings about it, but I’m not employed at a Texas university.

dogisbadob > Scary__goongala! 11/30/2016 at 21:24

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hehehe business ethics, wtf is that anyway? :p

Especially now with Donald Trump, your class will be obsolete in a month!

No really though, good luck!

Scary__goongala! > DrJohannVegas 11/30/2016 at 21:30

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Interesting. Don’t know how I didn’t know about that.

Scary__goongala! > dogisbadob 11/30/2016 at 21:37

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Business ethics_ the study of how to properly use one’s economic power and professional power with integrity.

Ethics_ the study of integrity

Now you know!

DrJohannVegas > Scary__goongala! 11/30/2016 at 22:10

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(I know this isn’t the conversation you asked for, but I’ve wanted to express this for a while out in the open. If you aren’t down with it in your post, just dismiss this reply.)

Yea. I’m much more pro-2A than many of my colleagues, but I have a hard time squaring this law with my interpretation of the Right to Bear Arms. Perhaps I’m too conservative (small c, classical conservative, not modern, large-C, movement “Conservative”) on this, but I see a lot of the extreme groups of concealed- and open-carry supporters as just as dangerous as those who propose outright prohibition of firearms.

The Second Amendment rightly has an important place in the Bill of Rights, and was clearly a response to confiscation by English Colonial authorities. A great way to suppress rebellions and quell dissent is to take from the people the tools of resistance. (I should know, I study this kind of thing for a living. It’s a common strategy, and now extends far beyond guns.)

But I have a much harder time imagining that the Founders had “carry anything, anywhere, any time” in mind when they crafted that amendment. In this case, I think that ideologues reacted to a spate of shootings and used it as an opportunity to push their agenda even further, into a space and onto a group of people who they knew opposed it (on average).

(Plus, the fact that you still can’t carry in the Legislature smacks of...something. Can’t quite put my finger on it.)

One of the stated aims of the policy was to give instructors (or students) the right to carry and serve as a first line of defense of their student in case of an active shooter event. I don’t know if you’ve met many professors, but even if they were willing to bear that burden, I wouldn’t put overwhelming faith in their ability. There’s a reason LEOs get lots of training on target selection and situational awareness. Prof. Schmitt is as likely to hit a student as an attacker. My general concern about bystander harm in CC scenarios goes through the roof in a classroom in a crisis situation. (Also, fun inside-baseball fact: Many instructors are already amped up during lectures merely from the body’s reaction to stress/performance. That’s great.)

Add to that that I (and my colleagues) have had distraught, aggressive, and occasionally borderline dangerous interactions with some students, and adding concealed firearms to the environment seems ill-advised. My colleagues had to call campus police to their office before. This stuff happens. (Everyone came out of it okay, by the way.) I know that firearm prohibitions don’t stop real criminals from bringing weapons where they are prohibited, but I’m an economist, I think about the margins. The law won’t change whether those outlaws bring guns into a classroom or an office or a library or a quad. But, in some cases, students may have a firearm where they didn’t before. I’d like to think that everyone with a CCP has a stable mind, but that requires a lot of faith in the system. Potentially adding a firearm to a tense situation (and the uncertainty is a big issue) seems like a bad tradeoff to me. It just raises the risk where it wasn’t before without lowering risk elsewhere.

Most importantly: If I was carrying and was in a situation where I might have to use a weapon, I’ve got additional baggage: these are (potentially) my students. I know them and have a bond with them. I may be tough on them from time to time, but its because of a genuine respect and care for them as individuals. I am not certain how I’d react if 1) they were in danger, or worse, 2) they were threatening me or others.

So, on balance, this campus carry thing seems like a cheap political trick with real risks and few upsides. Sorry for bending your ear (eyes?) about it.

Good luck on your exam, tell your Prof I’m sorry for distracting you.

(PS: Even if we sometimes seem like jerks who are picking on you, we do genuinely want you to do well. I promise. We just think we need to push you a bit to get you to do the good work we know you can do.)

Scary__goongala! > DrJohannVegas 11/30/2016 at 22:50

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I really do agree with what you have said. I like having the ability to conceal carry. But really the only time I’d want to bother having it with me on campus is while I’m wearing my uniform. When I’m wearing regular clothing my Glock will sometimes become slightly exposed for just a fraction of a second. I don’t feel like having some idiot start freaking out because they saw I have a weapon on me. There isn’t much hope if multiple gunmen walk into a class and there you are with a sidearm. As you said a shoot out with dozens of students around is not a good thing. There are intruder drills that make a huge difference.

And I can’t remember having a professor that was a dick for just the sake of being a dick. Maybe that professor had a questionable grading system, but thats about it. I can see the big picture much better than some of my fellow students can.