Automotive Reminder

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind)
11/20/2016 at 07:40 • Filed to: Cadillac STS-V

Cadillac CTS-V (back when it was a large-compact sedan) beside STS-V midsize sedan

The 2006-2009 Cadillac STS-V can be had for $16,000 in great condition. If you looked at the Corvette-derived Cadillac XLR-V and decided the 443 hp, supercharged 4.4L Northstar V8 was too anemic, then try the same engine making 469 hp and 439 lb-ft instead. The STS wore the Art-and-Science design better than any other Cadillac of the era and was a far more refined performance car than the muscle head CTS-V. It’s a great way to break into the 12s on the quarter mile without dropping that fresh scone on the way to work.

Performance was headed by John Heinricy who was the Assistant Chief Engineer for Corvette and Director of the GM Performance Division at the time. Heinricy is also noted for tearing up SCCA National Championship Runoffs in Corvettes, Camaros, Firebirds, and Cobalts. Lastly, he’s the guy that went to the Nurburgring and set a 7:56 in the 2004 Corvette Z06 and a sub-8 minute run in a 2009 CTS-V. The man is a living legend and you can have one of his final projects before retiring from GM in October 2008. An $80,000 car ten years ago for easily under $18,000!

Interior materials for the STS-V were contracted from Dräxlmaier which is the same German company that outfitted the Maybach 57 and 62. This was back in the days of Cadillac’s having intuitive controls and the best part is that the interior design is pretty much what current Caddy’s such as the CTS are based on.

The STS-V is a very comfortable, refined, well-finished sports sedan that may not outrun a contemporary E60 M5 however it will make them sweat profusely. Especially since even an enthusiast will have no idea what an STS-V is or how you’re keeping up. Seriously, look at these production numbers:

STS-V Production Numbers

2006 - 306 Total - 55 were exported to various countries

2007 - 642 Total - 65 were exported to various countries

2008 - 459 Total - 32 were exported to various countries

2009 - 96 total - 4 were exported to Gulf States (BAHRAIN,OMAN,QATAR,UAE)

Total productuion 2,503 Units (*1,503 units)

Nothing better than a factory sleeper that wasnt a sleeper at the time. The STS-V is the midsize Cadillac that everyone forgets existed let alone had a performance version that isn’t far off from a brand new WRX STI, and really is a touch up away from having specs that match the current Mercedes-AMG C63 Sedan. Both of which are smaller cars, mind you.

DISCUSSION (26)

pip bip - choose Corrour > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 07:51

your total is wrong , should say 1503.

PS9 > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 07:59

The XLR in all trim levels was a worse-off Corvette. Why get an XLR at all when the base vette costs less, is faster and will be cheaper to maintain in the long run? The V vs. the C6Z06 getting greenlit around the same time makes you really question whoever was at the head of GMs product portfolio development, because they were not good at it.

Wobbles the Mind > pip bip - choose Corrour
11/20/2016 at 08:00

Thank you!

Wobbles the Mind > PS9
11/20/2016 at 08:09

The XLR was a hardtop convertible designed to compete against the Mercedes SL-Class, not to throw down with Vipers and 911s. Once upon a time the roadster was THE sign of top end luxury. Heck, convertibles used to be what Cadillac was really known for! Times have changed, but before Escalade there was the Allante as the brand’s luxury poster child. It’s the reason Mercedes still offers the SL range, tradition and heritage. All those buyers are dead now, so now roadsters are sub-$60k and getting softtops.

PS9 > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 08:33

The XLR could not hold a candle to an SL, and this is coming from a diehard, LS worshiping GM fanboy. The build quality was pathetic, the interior materials were laughable, the performance relative to the whole SL range was anemic, and the Northstar was the worst of all worlds; an american V8 with V6 performance and a European maintenance schedule. It’s utterly laughable that they actually wanted $100k for the top trim level on this thing. $40k would have been pushing it.

Also, consumers are not going to fine-grain balkanize the market like that. A few people will shop with specificity, but too many others are going to simply ask, “What can I get for my money?” People are going to cross shop what they like and buy what they want. ‘But that’s not meant to compete with...’ will protect no one from that.

Your boy, BJR > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 08:44

Not to mention Quinten Tarantino drives one that’s been retrofitted with an 8 track player.

Wobbles the Mind > PS9
11/20/2016 at 08:47

I think you’re exaggerating quite a bit. The entire Northstar System began with the early 90s Allante and culminated into the late 2000s XLR-V and did everything that was expected of it for the market. It didn’t do well because people were losing their houses.

LongbowMkII > PS9
11/20/2016 at 09:01

V6 performance? Tell me more about these 300-450hp v6's ten years ago.

PS9 > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 09:14

You say that like making 0% progress for 20 freaking years is somehow acceptable for an engine program. It’s not. It’s utterly ridiculous that the same engine after the potential for 20 years of improvement in the Allante sat under the hood of a 2011 Lucerne nearly unchanged. The SBC was replaced by the LS which underwent four generational changes in that same time span!

The XLR-V didn’t sell because it sucked. People losing their homes had nothing to do with it. It was a lackluster product and potential buyers knew it. On top of being willing to walk past an SL, a buyer would also have to accept paying 6 figures for car that wasn’t worth half that, which is mental.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 09:27

Funny you should mention the “same thing as a Maybach” interior. I don’t care who it is sourced from, the interior on any STS, or any Cadillac at all from that era, is several notches below anything coming out of Germany at the time. The STS-V is a good car, and when I would definitely consider at that price point, but it’s been said before and I will repeat again, it’s not as refined of a product as the Germans.

jkm7680 > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 09:30

The interior is still absolute shit.

shop-teacher > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 09:34

I like these a lot. I’ve always dug the Art & Science design language, and this STS was a great example of it. Regular STS’s of this generation are shockingly cheap.

shop-teacher > PS9
11/20/2016 at 09:36

The XLR was plenty fast for most, and it looked cool. That’s what it was designed to do, look cool. A lot of people don’t like the way it looks, but those people are wrong.

PS9 > LongbowMkII
11/20/2016 at 09:36

The Vq35de is over 10 years old at this point, and every manufacturer has had something like it in it’s lineup for somewhere around 10 years; Merc’s E35 (2004), BMW’s N54B (2006), Audi’s 3.2 FSI (2004), GM’s own LY7 (2007), Ford’s 3.5 Duratec (2007), the Aforementioned VQ, Toyota’s 2gr-FSE (2005) and the list goes on, and on, and on. Some of these don’t quite make 300HP, some are good for a lot more than that and have made 350+ in other revisions down the road, but the ~300 HP V6 is hardly a recent development.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 09:46

I had a client for a while that had a black STS-V. Seriously underrated highway bombers. He used to make the Houston-SA run to visit our office in 1:45 without ever getting a second look from the cops. You’re spot on. These are great factory sleepers and anyone looking at something a used Jag XJR and should be also be shopping these if they can find one. I’m surprised to see production was so low. I know they were rare, but I’ve seen several so I was thinking in the 10,000 unit ballpark. Then again, this is a car that fits Texas driving so perfectly that it also wouldn’t surprise me if 75% of them were sold here.

LongbowMkII > PS9
11/20/2016 at 10:35

Referring to the 240hp VQ in all but the most expensive nissan/infinities 280hp if you were lucky. 300hp VQ’s are a recent development.

The N* is 25 years old. Age is only working in the north star’s favor there. I’d hope that a (then) brand new turbocharged BMW six could equal the already obsolete N* in the mid 2000's

AfromanGTO > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 11:21

I met a guy years ago who had one at a car meet. My buddies and I were surprised by it. He was a cool guy. They have fairly loud blower whine, but it was glorious!

Kinja'd!!!

PS9 > LongbowMkII
11/20/2016 at 11:30

Referring to the 240hp VQ in all but the most expensive nissan/infinities 280hp if you were lucky. 300hp VQ’s are a recent development.

The implication of rarity on the part of high-performing VQ engines existing 10 years ago doesn’t work at all here. ‘If you were lucky’? Every single Nissan Z leaving the factory was rated for 280 HP, with no execptions. 350zs were not hard to get. G35s were not hard to get. $30k was nowhere near ‘expensive’ for a RWD sports coupe in ~2005, and it still isn’t today. Aside from the fact that relative availability of six cylinders and ~300HP is a red herring to the point of discussion, which was whether or not they were available at all. And they were, in abundance, by many manufacturers beside Nissan/Infiniti.

The N* is 25 years old. Age is only working in the north star’s favor there.

The Northstar was produced for 20 years with no changes or updates at all. You can’t compare that to the N series which in the same span of time replaced the M series and has been updated at least once per year since before itself being replaced. Contrast that with the Northstar, which was rendered obsolete by GMs own small block 8 years before the first V product even launched.

Dru > jkm7680
11/20/2016 at 11:37

I have to disagree on that.

Dru > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 11:40

My brother in law has one. They’re great cars for lots of reasons. He tells me it is fairly difficult to work on, and due to its rarity parts are a pain in the ass to find sometimes. He has a contact with a cnc who has made some parts for him.

Sadly he’ll be selling it soon. He just finished wrapping up a repair that required removing a lot of the front clip, only to have it develop an oil leak that will require the same.

punkgoose17 > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 11:52

I never knew they made this car.

Land_Yacht_225 > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 12:03

I will never understand all the hate that is heaped on the Northstar. All anybody can ever say is “mumble-mumble headgaskets” and “grumble-grumble starter motor in the V of the engine.”

Don’t get me wrong, these supercharged variants are absolutely killer, but the standard ones were beyond good for their entire life-span. They were smooth, had a gapless powerband. Years ago when every law enforcement agency was still using Crown Vics, it was said that all you needed to outrun a cop and disappear over the horizon was a Northstar Cadillac. I’ve driven probably close to 15 Northstar DeVilles, Sevilles, and Eldorados because they’re the first thing I shop when I’m buying a new car. The only reason I never bought one was because my mother thinks Cadillacs are too...lets say ethnically stereotyped...in her mind.

LongbowMkII > PS9
11/20/2016 at 12:10

No changes or updates? That’s really weird considering they debuted with ~275hp in 92 and could put out ~460hp in 2010. Magic.

You want to claim that N* produce V6 power. But the fact is that they didn’t.

I’m very interested in the 400+ HP v6's of the mid 2000's. The GT-R is the obvious answer, I’ll concede. The absolute pinnacle of mass produced(ish)V6 technology was more powerful than the N* only 15 years after its debut. The N* has problems, power was never one of them.

PS9 > LongbowMkII
11/20/2016 at 12:40

No changes or updates? That’s really weird considering they debuted with ~275hp in 92 and could put out ~460hp * in a special trim level that was only available in two models in 2010. Magic Supercharger. Every other Northstar powered model available produced the same power output for two decades, which totally undercuts the point of this swipe.

Fixed that for you.

You want to claim that N* produce V6 power. But the fact is that they didn’t.

What? the N54 is right inline with it’s contemporaries from Merc, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti at the time. It most certainly does produce ‘V6' power. What are you on about here?

The N* has problems, power was never one of them.

Didn’t you just say it didn’t produce ‘V6 power’? I6 power I suppose would be more accurate. Maybe you’re trying to imply that it isn’t fair to compare the power output of a turbocharged engine to an NA one, but it’s not hard to make 300HP with an NA engine; the VQ, LS and 2GSR all also managed to do that. It is hardly anyone’s fault beside GM that refusal to update the Northstar rendered it an obsolete and underwhelming product compared to others later in it’s life.

LongbowMkII > PS9
11/20/2016 at 13:04

So it’s ok for the Germans to boost their engines to make more than 300hp but not GM? You are aware that N* started making 300hp N/a in the early 2000's, yes?

It’s not hard NOW to make 300hp . In the mid 2000's MB/BMW/Audi six cylinders didn’t even make 250hp. Only when they boosted them did they start making power.

Why update an engine that you’re phasing out? Even in the N*’s last year (2010)they made more power than most sixes.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Wobbles the Mind
11/20/2016 at 16:42

I can only think of one car that was a better factory sleeper. The S600...