"Pretty much all of our dress shirts have collars like that now." (UPDATED)

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein) 09/28/2015 at 20:35 • Filed to: None

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Last week I went to Men’s Wearhouse to buy a suit for my cousin’s upcoming wedding. I ended up getting this light grey number, minus the vest. But I didn’t get dress shirts, even though I could really use a new dress shirt, because of a potentially silly oversight by the sales guy.

It’s been about 10 years since I bought a suit. I’ve also lost about 40 lbs over the past year, and none of my clothes fit anymore. I figured the upcoming wedding warranted a new suit. So last Friday, I went to Men’s Wearhouse to try and buy a new suit.

When you go to Men’s Wearhouse and tell them you are a generally casual dude and don’t wear or buy suits often, they take this as a sign that you are some kind of rube who will pay whatever they ask, and take you through an entire ritual of showing you the suit, and oh check out the matching vest that goes with this suit, and here are some shoe options, and do you have socks to match this suit, and what about some dress shirts with ties and coordinated pocket squares, and did you know you really need a tie bar to hold your tie to your shirt so it doesn’t end up in your soup at that wedding you’re going to, and you absolutely must buy this $15 cedar hanger because the hanger this suit comes with is totally not up to the task of being a hanger for this suit.

I was having none of this. I just wanted a suit, and maybe a dress shirt or two since I don’t really have dress shirts in the right size. Each time the sales guy would come up with a new thing to show me, he said “I’ll present you with this ___,” and that makes it sound fancy, I guess.

We got to the part of the ritual presenting of the superfluous items where the sales guy lays out your chosen suit on a table, and arranges it with combinations of dress shirts, ties, and pocket squares. What, you don’t always coordinate your tie with a pocket square?

I told him I was pretty much set for ties, but since I lost weight I could use some basic white and light blue dress shirts. He had me try on this slim fit, skinny spread collar shirt where the collar was both too slim to conceal all but the skinniest of ties, while also the gap at the front of the collar was so wide that you needed to make a huge, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! -ian knot to fill the gap.

The shirt fit me alright, but the collar looked like crap. I did not want a shirt with this type of collar, and the sales guy told me this shirt was $90 . Oh hell no.

I told the guy I really hated the collar style he showed presented me, and asked for a dress shirt with a normal collar. “Oh, but that spread collar is the style now. Pretty much all of our shirts have that kind of collar on them.” Ok fine, if all of your shirts have collars on them that I hate, then I will not be buying any shirts, thankyouverymuch.

Today, I looked at the Men’s Wearhouse website for dress shirts. They have several of them on sale, WITH NORMAL COLLARS, like !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Even the dress shirt in the catalog photo of the suit I bought has a normal collar. Are you telling me that absolutely none of these shirts are available in the store?

Oh well, maybe I’ll have to find a dress shirt at Kohl’s instead. Because I’m fancy.

UPDATE: I went to JCPenney and found an acceptable light blue dress shirt with a normal collar in my weird size: 17 neck, 32/33 sleeve, slim fit. Not that I’m particularly slim, but I have a thick neck and stubby arms so non-slim shirts in this size fit me like a tent. The available color selection in my size was slim pickings, but they ordered me one that will arrive in time for the wedding. Total cost: 18 whole dollars.

Yossarian > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 17:59

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Go to Nordstrom. They usually have a tailor on site and when they have sales they’re good. Worth spending a bit more.

Or try one of those online suit companies like combat gentlemen or indochino, but I've never done that.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 18:06

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I’ve gotten very lucky. My next-door neighbor (okay, two doors up) owns a men’s clothing store and has been fantastic for getting all sorts of dress clothes. No bullshit.

Textured Soy Protein > Yossarian 09/28/2015 at 18:08

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Aside from the Nordstrom Rack that opened recently, there are no Nordstrom stores near me. The online stuff could be an option in theory but I have to get on a plane with these clothes on October 9th, so I’m pretty much in the window of just walking into a store and buying something that (hopefully) fits.

I hardly ever wear dress clothes. This is a conscious choice by me. Everywhere I’ve worked that’s been business casual, I’ve managed to find my way to the more casual end of the spectrum. I wear lots of 5-pocket trousers, button-down shirts that aren’t full-on dress shirts, and sweaters.

Leadbull > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 18:10

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Moral of the story: Don't lose weight. You'll be inconvenienced.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 18:10

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Suit minus tie, three button, no vest. Top shirt button un-done. Belt matches shoes, socks match suit. Never do blue/brown suit/pants with black shoes.

Done. This has never failed me or has never been an inappropriate look for any job interview/wedding/presentation. Ever.

Edit: Also, cuff links are a good look. I don’t care what any one says. Just be sure to spend a couple bucks on them. Don’t use the plastic ones that come with the shirt.

Textured Soy Protein > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 09/28/2015 at 18:17

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I rarely wear full-on dress clothes. Here is today’s example of my usual quasi-hipster business casual attire. And yes, I do have white-soled navy shoes with red laces.

I'll take 911 RS for $5000 > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 18:26

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Brooks Brothers is similarly priced, but their shirts are actually pretty good quality and style. I got some nice shirts from Charles Tyrwhitt online, but I already knew my size, and they were one pretty steep discount.

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 18:27

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I usually hit the Jos. A Bank or Brooks Brothers outlet for suits and pick up shirts/ties as Kohls because I too am apparently fancy like that.

Last time I bought a suit the guy at the Jos. A Bank outlet greeted me when I walked in the door and asked what I was looking for. He nailed my measurements without even thinking about using the tape measure and the first one pulled fit minus the requisite hemming. In and out in 30 minutes, it was amazing.

ranwhenparked > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 18:50

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If you’re looking for something reasonably priced, I’d go to Jos. A. Bank. They’re owned by Mens Wearhouse, but they run about 20 years behind on fads and fashion, so you can still get normal looking collars.

Their suits are pretty much crap, but their wrinkle free dress shirts are actually decent, one of the few products there worth buying.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 18:57

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Nah, you aren’t limited by the date as most decent places with have a suit back within a week. If you ask really nicely (even as less expensive places), they may be able to do it within a couple of days.

CB > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 19:18

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“quasi-hipster”

That’s like saying a t-rex “might fancy a steak”.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 19:31

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Macy's has a good men's dress clothes collection. Have an outlet mall near you? Van Hausen or Calvin Kline both have nice men’s shirts. That’s where I get mine. I have to wear dress clothes for work and am very particular about shirts.

Pro Tip: Look for shirts with removable collar stays. Then you can get metal ones and magnets to keep you color propped up without a tie on.

All of this is assuming that you care. And since you don’t have reason to wear clothes like this often I don’t blame you for not wanting to worry about it.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 20:09

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$90?! For a shirt you don’t even like??

“I’ll present you with this open palm to the face. ”

GeorgeyBoy > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 20:40

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Llbean or bust

jariten1781 > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 20:49

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Yup, spread collars suck. I wear suits every day and just buy my shirts online. I’m a button collar guy and finding non-cheap button collars in stock at a store is a PITA.

Steve in Manhattan > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 20:52

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When you can, and if you’re going to spend some money, go online and get yourself a Brooks Brothers shirt or two. I love them, and they seem to last longer than other brands. Also, Charles Tyrwhitt make a great, reasonably priced dress shirt. I have two.

Master Cylinder > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:05

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Did he borrow a child’s tie? What is happening here?

Textured Soy Protein > Master Cylinder 09/28/2015 at 21:07

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He ties his ties with such a giant knot that they only hang down that far.

1111111111111111111111 > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:11

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Okay - i need a suit for interviews. And if i get the job ill need more dress clothes. So how do i go in as a rube, and leave with a good deal and the want to go back?

Textured Soy Protein > jariten1781 09/28/2015 at 21:13

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I like button collars when I’m not wearing a tie, which in my case is often. So like casual button down shirts I always try to get a button collar. Keeps it from getting wrinkly.

The JCPenney I went to had a whole bunch of button collar dress shirts. None were slim fit though. Which I still find odd that’s what I need but that’s what I need. I guess most shirts with a 17” neck are cut for someone whose neck is that size because of fat rather than muscle?

Master Cylinder > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:14

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Someone should tell him you can buy longer ties. Or maybe he could buy a vest. I’m sure it’s his “thing” at this point, though.

Textured Soy Protein > 1111111111111111111111 09/28/2015 at 21:16

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I would check the website first for prices. Because these suit places are always running some sale or another AND are one of the last places in clothing retail that still have sales people on commission. I’ve found that either through ignorance or intentional misleading, these sales people may not tell you the exact price right away. If you go in and say “I saw stuff on your website and it was in this price range after the sale” they’ll be more up front.

Textured Soy Protein > Master Cylinder 09/28/2015 at 21:18

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They did the short tie thing in the 70s. Check out the James Bond movie Diamonds Are Forever. It’s from 1971. Everyone’s tie looks like that.

Master Cylinder > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:21

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Yeah, I know. I think it looks dumb as all hell, but that’s just, like, my opinion, man.

1111111111111111111111 > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:22

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Thanks. Have you found that they are willing to haggle?

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:26

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I don’t mind the wide collar look, mainly because it looks good on me. I didn’t feel like I had to tie a large knot, but maybe I just am an anomaly. The two I grabbed from CK look good at least, but then his stuff always does.

Textured Soy Protein > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 09/28/2015 at 21:29

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I have a big neck. The little bitty triangles of the this particular collar were overwhelmed by my neck.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:30

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I always think those look stupid along with these on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I’ve seen a couple really old Italian guys wear them and now I think the style has been taken over as I saw a 20 year old wearing one.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Master Cylinder 09/28/2015 at 21:34

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I like my ties short and fat, but wow, that’s really short. Definitely no weeny warmer there!

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:34

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Well try CK before you give it up as a lost cause.

Textured Soy Protein > 1111111111111111111111 09/28/2015 at 21:37

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I don’t know if I’d call it haggling, but when buying smaller items, once or twice I had a sales person tell me the full retail price on an item and then when they rang it up they “suddenly” realized it was on sale for less. So like this time I went to get this suit, I checked their site for sales and to get a ballpark idea of what I should be paying. Sure enough the guy told me the suits he was showing me cost $600-650, but “buy one get one free.” Only thing was these suits were on the website for like $200-$300, because he “didn’t realize a new sale was starting.”

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:38

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jos a bank is way better. the staff is usually a bunch of classy old guys that put zero pressure on you. If you want the latest style they won’t have it, but to me that is a good thing when it comes to suits...

Chariotoflove > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 21:51

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Mens Wearhouse is a good place for suit deals, but you did right by getting your shirts at JCP. Their Stafford house brand shirts are the best value you can find in a shirt. They last forever and look great with no ironing as long as you hang them up out of the dryer.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 22:05

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Hahahahahaha. Ha!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 22:09

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Congrats on saying goodbye to those 40 lbs. I need to drop at least 20...

Also, I have monkey arms: 16 1/2, 34/35 ( not slim fit - ha!)

Frank Grimes > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 23:09

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Jc penney is the bomb for this stuff. I always find nice shirts and where I bought my suit.

Nordstrom house brand are really nice shirts.

Frank Grimes > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 23:10

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not everyone should wear them and then only with a proper size tie and knot.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 09/28/2015 at 23:26

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This is my combo:

1. Go like 15-20 minutes before they close for the day. (Any less and they won’t have time to help you.)

2. Bring the amount you are willing to pay in cash and leave the cards at home.

Last time I did this at Men’s Warehouse I admittedly was in a bit of a bind, because I was out of town for a wedding and realized at 5:30 on Friday that I had left my suit at home. (Somehow I had remembered my tie and shoes.) I ended up with a decent slim fit suit with the pants hemmed and a dress shirt for the $200 I had in my pocket. They sales guy rang it all up as $180 and I told him to split the $20 with the tailor.

Textured Soy Protein > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 09/29/2015 at 00:29

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I don’t wear dress clothes enough to warrant going too far outside the box. If I stick with more classic styles I’m less likely to find myself 7 years down the road with my select few items of dress clothing suddenly out of style.

Textured Soy Protein > CB 09/30/2015 at 16:21

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Technically beef cattle had not yet evolved during the time in which T-Rex roamed the Earth, so a T-Rex would be unlikely to fancy a steak, what with never having seen a cattle before.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Textured Soy Protein 10/06/2015 at 13:29

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I hate those spread collars. Also, I buy my shirts at JC Penney’s too. Normally great deals and coupons like mad

Pessimist > Textured Soy Protein 10/29/2015 at 04:01

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Here’s everything that’s wrong with the above picture. Guy on the right: First of all the tie is way too short. Second of all he needs a tighter knot. It’s way too humongous. He dresses like a friggin’ straight man. It just looks ridiculous.

Third: Nationals vs. Pirates?!? I mean c’mon! I think we can do better than that.

Pessimist > Textured Soy Protein 10/29/2015 at 04:12

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Button down collars look nice if you ditch the tie and wear a sportcoat/blazer. They’re otherwise on the casual side of things. I wouldn’t wear a button down collar for an interview or a more formal occasion.

Pessimist > Frank Grimes 10/29/2015 at 04:25

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Agreed. It depends on whether you’re on the slimmer side or the chunkier side. Slimmer guys can get away with the point collar but rounder guys should do spread collar. The guy pictured above should have went with a point collar for sure.