Question For the Audience

"roflcopter" (roflroflroflcopter) 09/20/2015 at 13:53 • Filed to: None

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What happens when a group of idiots design an autocross course? I’ll let the following video answer it for you.

There was sand/gravel at just about every brake zone and no continuity to gate width or thought to where you’d end up if you messed up. Luckily I kept the car in a somewhat straight line when I lost it but still got uncomfortably close to the concrete parking brakes.

Another friend of mine in a 5th gen Camaro couldn’t stop in the allotted shut down lane and ate a low curb resulting in a messed up tire, wheel, and destroying a carbon fiber splitter. I don’t think we’ll be attending this region again.

whoarder is tellurium > roflcopter 09/20/2015 at 14:01

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Personally, I think that parking lot looks too small and has too many concrete bits to potentially hit.

Not good.

XJDano > roflcopter 09/20/2015 at 14:04

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Are there no guidelines they go by? Back when I did it in 2007 they were talking about all kinds of factors of how far you needed to stay back & away from to have a safe course. I don't think I would have run at this place.

roflcopter > XJDano 09/20/2015 at 14:12

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It followed zero guidelines. This was a PCA event, not SCCA and the organizers were pretty difficult to deal with. The local SCCA events I’m used to follow everything by the book.

roflcopter > whoarder is tellurium 09/20/2015 at 14:14

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It was my first time with this club and at this location. I’m definitely not going back there again. The ‘safety precautions’ that they took as far as the course and especially corner workers basically did not exist.

BRZ4Science > roflcopter 09/20/2015 at 14:18

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SCCA safety regulations require a minimum of 50ft from curbs/obstacles... None of that course was more than 20ft from one.

I would have looked at that course, said nope, and walked away. Whoever was running that event should be shut down. I cannot see how they’d get operating insurance, how the site could have rented to them in the first place, and why anyone would willingly run that course, let alone work a corner.

This is the kind of thing that gives the entire sport a bad name and ruins things for the rest of us.

XJDano > roflcopter 09/20/2015 at 14:24

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I was in the SCCA for that year. It seems that they may have gotten free use of that lot and were able to throw something together. The lot the STL religion used was the drag strip parking lot for gateway raceway. Which was huge although a center PA stand that always went around it. Apparently Kimja wants the photo at top.

yitznewton > roflcopter 09/20/2015 at 14:27

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What? No way. Curbing, light posts, buildings?! I would run away screaming rather than drive aroune that stuff. Condolences to your friend!! :(

roflcopter > BRZ4Science 09/20/2015 at 14:28

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I completely agree, running was not the best idea but we were already there and I had yet to experience a bad course so I didn’t realize how hairy it could get. This was a PCA event, not SCCA, but I know PCA is help in pretty high regard in other parts of the country so I don’t think that was the fundamental issue.

They absolutely would not take any criticism about the course or the way they ran the event. Two of us brought up issues during the course walk and were immediately confronted by them writing us off as obviously not knowing what we’re talking about, even calling me out in the whole group with a “have you ever even autocrossed before?”

roflcopter > yitznewton 09/20/2015 at 14:30

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We should have. It’s pretty lucky that all of us that were used to competing only had one car break anything.

jjhats > roflcopter 09/20/2015 at 15:00

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That is not a safe course. All of my groups have strict legislation when it comes to distance to poles and complete avoidance of islands curbs and park blocks.

roflcopter > jjhats 09/20/2015 at 15:05

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Yep. The region I am a member of does as well. I posted a link to some guidelines on the facebook page of this group and I’m waiting to see how they receive that. haha

BRZ4Science > roflcopter 09/20/2015 at 15:34

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Who runs the club is usually more important than what club is running. There are liability issues for both the club and the site owners, the insurance waivers you sign to participate will not cover negligence.

All it takes is for one car to hit a curb, lose control, and injure a corner worker which is a terrible enough outcome, but additionally both the club and site can be lost forever (as they should if they cause workers and drivers to deal with unnecessary risks).

No one wants to show up to an event and have to make the decision on whether or not to run due to poor course design, and no one should have to. I don’t blame you or anyone else for running that course, but anyone who puts up with that reckless disregarde for safety on a regular basis is responsible for supporting those attitudes and decisions.

Write an email to the National PCA office and send them your video. Tell them the facts, your concerns, and how the local chapter addressed the incidents as well as your well-founded concerns (they should have to file an incident report for every car that is damaged at one of their events with both their insurance and the national office).

You won’t make any friends doing what is right and what is required; however, you might save people from some pretty horrible life altering/ending events and maybe, just maybe, from themselves.

roflcopter > BRZ4Science 09/20/2015 at 15:41

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I just posted a link to some course layout guidelines I found published by another PCA chapter to this chapters Facebook page and got a reply from the person who writes the follow-up reports asking for clarification what I was unhappy with. I listed my concerns and brought up the fact that my friends car was damaged. We will see if they seem amiable to change and addressing the issues or if they get all high and mighty about it like they were at the event.

I don’t really mind making enemies with that particular group so I’m definitely going to follow through with some high up action if they don’t address the issues.