How is the BRZ/FR-S in the Real World?

"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
09/08/2015 at 23:10 • Filed to: FRS/BRZ/GT86

Over the Labor Day weekend I had to accompany my uncle while he was shopping for a used car and I came across a black FR-S at a Toyota dealership (who’d have thought that?). They’re a lot lower and smaller in stock form than they appear when driving around on the street. Never-the-less, it looked really beautiful when I was standing next to it. I stood and admired it for a good 5 minutes while my uncle was looking at a used Sienna.

There are equally as many write-ups about them needing more power as there are defending its power level because of the handling characteristics. I don’t personally need a nuclear crap-ton of power from a car (although I wouldn’t object to it) to enjoy it. Spirited canyon driving is pure enjoyment for me (although I’d like to get around to trying either Auto-X and/or Track days).

So my question is, how are they to actually own and use as a daily driver? How’s the gas mileage and ability to merge safely onto a freeway after a stop at the metering lights? Lastly, how is the power for overtaking and the occasional desire for brisk acceleration to the speed limit?

DISCUSSION (37)

Forgetful > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/08/2015 at 23:16

If you can’t get where you’re going with 200hp and 6 speeds, you shouldn’t be driving. You just have to rev it and row it. Mileage is great. Reliability is great. Practicality suffers, but for a single guy in the city it’s been the best car I’ve ever owned. Even more enjoyable now that I started autocrossing it. It really is one of the best cars for cone dodging.

scoob > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/08/2015 at 23:19

Kinja'd!!!

Gold/bronze RPF1/TE37’s are some of my weaknesses.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/08/2015 at 23:19

My cousin owned one and he was able to average low to mid 30’s and broke 40 mpg on a trip to the beach. To me the acceleration was fine, and fun. If I’m able to merge in something that takes over 15 seconds to reach sixty, something that takes less than half of that should be fine. Not perfect if you plan on having more than two people in it all the time, but 4 people is doable.

wafflesnfalafel > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/08/2015 at 23:26

I wish they could have found a couple extra inches of headroom...me no fit...

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > wafflesnfalafel
09/08/2015 at 23:28

Ouch. How tall are you?

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > scoob
09/08/2015 at 23:29

Me too. Along with bronze/formula silver ce28n wheels. *drool*

Sinanigans > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/08/2015 at 23:31

I’m in love with mine. It feels special every time I get in :)

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Forgetful
09/08/2015 at 23:32

That’s what I figured. I was fortunate enough to receive a ride in an e30 M3 which a lot of people also complain about not having power and it was mind blowingly fast to me. Practicality isn’t a requirement for me. Believe it or not I kind of want an impractical car just for the hell of it since I’m still single and young.

for Michigan > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/08/2015 at 23:36

I test drove a BRZ that almost came home with me just a couple weeks ago. It wasn’t an extensive ride, but the short time I had with it left me with a few observations:

1) The ride is comfortably DD-able. Bumps were noticeable, but not jarring.

2) Sight-lines are okay. Not as good as my Civic, but at least comparable to my Fiero. Tall-ish rear end means the standard backup camera on the 16 BRZ will be a welcome addition.

3) Power is more than adequate for a street car. It’s a lightweight car (for something new) and doesn’t need 300 hp to safely navigate traffic.

4) There’s plenty of room for two passengers and that’s about it. It may as well be a two-seater. It does have split, folding rear seats to expand storage space, but the trunk is smaller than my Civic’s.

I would gladly DD a BRZ (it has a prettier face than the FR-S). The only thing stopping me right now is that I don’t really want a used one and payments on a new one are just above what I’m willing to commit to at the moment.

As for gas mileage, I’ve heard they do at least the EPA ratings as long as you don’t thrash them like a journalist.

wafflesnfalafel > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/08/2015 at 23:37

a little over 6’2” - it’s usually the head room, (not the leg room,) that gets me. I don’t even fit in the new Civic coupes. I’m hoping for a new WRX hatch at some point.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/08/2015 at 23:37

That’s some pretty amazing mileage. My current car gets around 22-ish if I drive like a grandma so 30 sounds absolutely amazing. I usually only have myself in the car or one friend at a time. Occasionally I need five people to fit but that rarely happens so I could probably get away with the small back seats. Plus I figure if I keep making some friends sit in the hilariously small “rear seats” they’ll just get sick of it and then offer to drive instead of having me as the driver.

How has the car been reliability and maintenance-wise for him?

for Michigan > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/08/2015 at 23:42

I’m somewhere between 6’ 1” and 6’ 2” and it fit me wonderfully. Though I am shortwaisted with oddly long limbs, so headroom generally isn’t a problem for me once seated.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > wafflesnfalafel
09/08/2015 at 23:43

That sucks. Have you tried maybe using aftermarket mounts to lower the seats a few inches? Probably not that financially feasible but I guess if you really want a car it’d be worth it?

Luckily I’m only 5’8” so I can fit into anything really. The downside is I’m not tall enough to date tall ladies. Grass is always greener on the other side I guess haha.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Sinanigans
09/08/2015 at 23:44

Now I want one even more! I want to feel special every time I get in a car! :(

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/08/2015 at 23:44

He had it repo’d so it’s not really anything I can’t judge upon, but from what I’ve heard, they are pretty reliable. To be fair with the mileage, most of his commute was highway, so if you drive city it will be less. Though, even when he trashed it he was still getting mid to high 20’s. At 6’ I’ve sat in the back seat along with his at the time 6 month old in her car seat, and I was fine for the hour or so I was back there. It’s not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be, or I’m just used to a cramped back seat.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > for Michigan
09/08/2015 at 23:50

Your response is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thanks!

How comfortable would you rank it? On a scale of new Honda Accord to Slammed Subaru Impreza on stiff springs where you bounce around with every bump? (Sorry if those are weird choices but those are the spectrums I have experienced).

How good would you say is the side visibility out the back for blind spots?

Payments are a pain. I was thinking of an FR-S since it is cheaper but the interior has me conflicted. Like you I would prefer a new one since I’d rather not deal with the whole used car-shopping craigslist dance.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/08/2015 at 23:59

That sucks. Holy crap really? I was pretty settled on nobody being able to fit comfortably back there. Now this sounds like an amazing daily car.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/09/2015 at 00:03

Keep in mind, my cousin is the same height so even with me back there, he had room to drive. If I had the money, I’d buy one.

for Michigan > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/09/2015 at 00:24

Glad it was helpful.

For comfort, with the slammed Imprezza being 0 and the new Accord being 10, I’d say it’s probably around an 8. Similar to the 10-year-old Mazda I got instead.

There’s a bit of a rear quarter blind spot. Visibility is good for a sports car/new car, but it’s not as good as a Japanese car from the 90s. As long as you use the SAE-recommended mirror setup instead of the common one they teach in most driver’s ed, blind spots shouldn’t be a problem.

These cars are new enough that you can easily get a used one without ever touching Craigslist. I have a few reasons for wanting a new one instead of a used one:

1) Used sports cars are hooned sports cars.

2) Americans in general have an “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” attitude toward car maintenance.

3) A one- or two-year-old used car is likely for sale because the previous owner couldn’t afford it.

Reason 1 wouldn’t stop me from buying used in and of itself and Reason 2 is a generalization with plenty of exceptions. But once Reason 3 comes into play, you realize that the kind of person who buys a new car just to turn around and sell it a year or two later (or have it repo’d) is not the kind of person to hoon responsibly or maintain their car properly. You’re just asking to be punished for the previous owner’s irresponsibility.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/09/2015 at 07:02

Great for daily driving and the occasional autocross or rallycross. I have a ‘13 and the only real issue I’ve seen is that my turn signal flasher has started making a weird noise sometimes. Mileage is good even with semi-aggressive driving. Also has much better visibility than my friend’s camaro.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/09/2015 at 08:01

They’re fine. They’re quick enough to get out their own way and highways aren’t an issue at all. Remember that this may not be fast by modern standards, but roll the clock back 25 years and it is. People didn’t have to use all of their power to get onto the highway back then and they still don’t. Other things of note are that the windows make noise when wet (doesn’t affect opperation, just annoying), the back seats are useless, it’s a bit loud because they skimped on soundproofing for lightness, and the ride’s a bit bumpy. There’s actually more cargo room than you’d expect with the rear seats down. Driving reasonably, I get about 24 mpg in the city and 33-34 highway.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > for Michigan
09/09/2015 at 08:05

The mirror thing can’t be stated enough. I couldn’t stand the blind spot at first even though it’s better than in most new cars until I got the mirrors set up correctly. Luckily, they give you a really wide rear view and largeish side mirrors, so you can get rid of the blind spot entirely.

yamahog > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua
09/09/2015 at 09:00

“Also has much better visibility than my friend’s camaro.”

Tbh, you could probably say that about anything that isn’t literally a submarine.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/09/2015 at 09:16

At least 4 of my friends ran out and bought either and FR-S or BRZ within a year of us all graduating college. They are all absolutely in love with the car. And I haven’t heard any real complaints. The only negative I’ve heard from any of them is the power issue... but we all raced in Formula SAE so it’s expected that we’d all want more power. Also consider that the turbo and supercharger kits are pretty pricey and none of them have dropped coin yet on a setup like that, so my take away is that it isn’t that big of a deal.

I’ve driven a few of their cars, and done test drives on 3 occasions and I really like the car overall. Really, most of what I experienced was mirrored by other comments here. Visibility is not the best, but it’s not great in most new cars, and it’s certainly livable. Ride is stiff but not abusive, and one of my test drives was in at the DC Auto Show over some atrocious streets and it seemed fine. My wife went on that test drive with me and sat in the back and hated it, but she has long legs. I wouldn’t want to do 4 people on a road trip, but for a short while it’s fine. Another test drive was up in Frederick, MD and I got to go out on some country roads. It’s not a drag racer, but has nice top end pull, and out on back roads is where it really shines. You just have to rev it up and jam some gears. Handling is fantastic, very linear, gives tons of feedback, and is safe and predictable at the limit (the sales guy was awesome and let me hoon a bit).

If I could, I would love to own one, trust me, I’ve really thought long and hard about it but I haven’t been in a position where it made financial sense. In 2011 my Cobalt got totaled and had the FR-S been available then, I would have absolutely bought one, but alas they were still a few months away and I didn’t have the luxury of waiting. The Cruze is paid off now but my wife and I are saving for a house so I don’t want to incur another payment. But if you’re young, single, and have the extra money, I’d highly recommend it.

Ryan A. > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/09/2015 at 10:14

Apparently, you can buy one even if you don’t have the money.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Ryan A.
09/09/2015 at 10:16

I’d rather not completely destroy my credit at 20.

Ryan A. > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/09/2015 at 10:17

The ride is good if you’re avoiding potholes. On a very long journey, the wind noise and road drone will get a bit annoying. I recently did a 2,300 mile road trip. On days where going 6+ hours the noise got to me a bit.

Plenty of room in the back for luggage, too.

Oh, if you live in a very rural area the premium fuel requirement might be a bit tedious. I found that it was a bit difficult to find gas on my road trip when I was in rural areas.

Ryan A. > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
09/09/2015 at 10:19

That’s a good idea. Most important component of credit history is time.

CaptDale - is secretly British > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/09/2015 at 12:26

I want one so bad. We had one on our lot. I see it everyday. Its just the combination I would have chosen too minus a few accessories.

B_dol > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/09/2015 at 14:11

Kinja'd!!!

50K miles on my DD FR-S, I suppose I am qualified to answer this.

MPG - roughly 32 mpg highway, 26-27 city in my car (tuned, CA driving)

Clutch - stop n’ go friendly for sure with a light clutch pedal.

Enough oomph to get you where you need to go, great chassis and cg for taking those cloverleafs and not braking.Visibility is way above average for a modern car.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Snuze: Needs another Swede
09/09/2015 at 23:09

Oh man that sounds pretty sweet. Looks like I’ll have to look very seriously at the BRZ/FR-S twins now. The linear handling would be great since I’ve only ever driven a FWD car without any track/auto-x experience so it’d be awesome to learn to properly drive a car.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
09/09/2015 at 23:12

Yeah I figured as much. I was fortunate enough to get a ride in an e30 M3 which people on the internet also say is not powerful and all that jazz but it was insanely fast to me. People probably just get so fixated on numbers in this day and age. The windows are noisy when wet? As in the wind noise gets worse? Or do they squeak when you roll them up and down when wet?

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > B_dol
09/09/2015 at 23:16

That’s what I was looking for. Someone with a lot of miles behind the wheel for a long term view. Light clutch sounds nice. I’ve only driven a car with a stiff clutch (Bugeye WRX) so I imagine soft clutches make for commuting easier.

Nice FR-S. How do you like it over a BRZ? Also, that picture looks a lot like it’s next to 101 near Montague Expressway.

B_dol > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/09/2015 at 23:52

I did two years of relatively short city streets commuting and more recently all highway miles (280). Car has been great, comfortable enough to DD and loads of fun on the weekends. It’s also easy to start in 2nd gear (from a stop or slight roll) which is nice. More sound deadening would be nice for highway (70 mph+), doesn’t help that I have a full exhaust :/

I went with the FR-S since Scion had better interest rates, lower prices and zero wait (Subaru had a 6 month waiting list in 2012). Other than badge paranoia the car is awesome. That being said, the interior on the BRZ and FR-S release/limited packages is much improved from the base car. Nicer HVAC controls and radio really do make it easier on the eyes. I drive the car often and hard so $1500 saved went nicely towards wider/ligher wheels, tires and a tune.

Good eye. Bay Area local, happy to show you the car if you are interested.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > B_dol
09/10/2015 at 00:08

It’s funny you mention the second gear start since I was thinking about that while crawling along 280 today in the morning. Good to know it would work for the FR-S/BRZ.

I always waver between the FR-S and BRZ based on the interior. Guess it’s something I’d just go for based on which is a more reasonable cost when I can get my funds together.

Sinanigans > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/10/2015 at 02:03

Do it! The seat hugs you, the steering wheel feels just right, and the car changes direction immediately. It’s not comfortable, but you are totally connected to the road!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC
09/10/2015 at 07:46

They squeak when rolling them up and down. In a year and a half of ownership in a humid environment where it rains most days, it doesn’t get any worse or better with time. It just makes noise when wet. It’s quiet dry. I’m with you on power. Because engines have been forced to get better in the last few years, power figures have been going up. Add to that all of the videos of 1500 hp Supras on the internet that can only get half of their power to the pavement and suddenly anything with less than 300 hp is “slow.” No, the BRZ will not win any drag races, but it has plenty of power for everything else and few of the people who complain about the power would be able to get anywhere near the limit on a road course in one. I get the feeling that most of those people are the ones who show up at an autocross for the first time talking about how awesome their “Stage 2” tune is and how they’re going to put a bigger turbo on their GTI or WRX then get decimated by all of the people in unmodified cars who actually know how to drive only to ragequit before the end of the day and never return. They’re people who need the power to feel fast because their skills don’t match their vehicles.