A map; and musings on the Civil War and The 1%

"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78) 08/31/2015 at 11:11 • Filed to: None

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Full disclosure: I’m far from an expert or historian on this, but as I’ve gotten older and begun to understand more about war, politics, and the complexities of life, the more I’ve realized that things are rarely black & white (no pun intended, don’t even go there...)

I found the following abolitionist map in an excellent Smithsonian book that sits on my coffee table. As I looked at the population density of slaves across The South at the outset of the War Between the States (the best and most neutral name; honorable mention: War Against Secession), I began to realize how clustered agriculture really was. Slave owners were mainly concentrated across South Carolina, Central Virginia (very politically powerful), the Alabama Black Belt, and the Mississippi Delta — all areas, as expected, with very fertile soil. Apart from those areas, the numbers simply weren’t that high. Houston seems oddly high, too.

So I began to think more about the modern era, plutocracy, and the 99% vs 1% discussions that have pervaded modern politics. Most secessionist citizens were not wealthy. Few owned slaves. Most fought a defensive war against and invading army. But the people who DROVE secession and plunged the nation into the darkest period in its history (IMHO) were a small minority — wealthy, politically-connected, and very economically driven — who felt they had no personal choice but to continue the horrible institution for their own well being.

Would a modern population tolerate the profit motives of “the 1%” to drive them into a horrible war? We could easily argue they already do and this is not a new concept, but in those days the information and power was far more concentrated than today. I just found the map interesting, especially when you consider how much, percentage-wise, of the US population was wiped out during the 4 years of conflict. Horrible times.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/maps-r…

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 11:17

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The rich are definitely still influencing us to do their bidding. Look at how much money defense contractors have made by keeping the middle east conflicts going

BrtStlnd > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 11:20

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“Would a modern population tolerate the profit motives of “the 1%” to drive them into a horrible war?”

Yes we would, you just have to get us nice and scared first.

TractorPillow > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 11:21

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What’s the point exactly of your post (genuinely curious, not trying to be rude at all!)? Is it that the 1% was largely the cause of the Civil War and that the current 1% also maintains the power/ability to usher our nation into another war?

Ash78, voting early and often > TractorPillow 08/31/2015 at 11:24

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Both amazement that they still have influence today, but also my surprise at how it appears to have been the same story back then. The reason I find this historical perspective (and speculation/theories) interesting is that most of this is completely glossed over by formal education. I don’t know about you, but most of my history books were basically:

South: We all hate blacks! Don’t try to stop us!

North: We’re all moral, upstanding citizens! Prepare to die!

/there will be a quiz tomorrow

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 11:26

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Also don’t forget many northern soldiers joined up to stop the southerners from tearing the country apart. Many had no idea about freeing the slaves.

Chain reaction? Chain reaction.

Ash78, voting early and often > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 08/31/2015 at 11:31

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My great-great grandfather immigrated here from Germany and Lincoln was all like “Sup, you want a fast track to citizenship? Hop on this ironclad and go siege the hell out of Vicksburg!”

/true story

//guy had no idea what he was doing or where Mississippi was

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 11:34

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Well, the ends etc.

Terrible war, but it probably was better that way. The southern slaveowners weren't going down without a fight, and nobody ever wanted to put the country through anything like the again. Heck, we have re-enactments in Canada even.

Sam > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 11:41

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I’m just amazed that in some of those areas over NINETY PERCENT of the population was enslaved.

Ash78, voting early and often > Sam 08/31/2015 at 11:42

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Can you even imagine trying to sleep at night, know that almost everyone around you would gladly kill you if given the chance?

Sam > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 11:46

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It’s just nuts.

My family were slave owners, but they were the good kind. They actually ended up willing the slaves emancipated when they died, because the slaves took such good care of them in old age.

One of my ‘many-great’-grandfathers was a general in the Tennessee Confederacy, but he was fighting to defend his home, not because he wanted to enslave people.

BrtStlnd > Sam 08/31/2015 at 11:49

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The good kind?

Berang > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 11:51

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“Göring : Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert : There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring : Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

It has always been the case, whether it’s the 1860s, 1930s, or today.

Sam > BrtStlnd 08/31/2015 at 11:54

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The non-whip cracking kind. The better of the worst.

BorkBorkBjork > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 11:58

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Well, if your point was that the few people who controlled the information led the country into war, well, ok then? That really hasn’t changed, News outlets all have their biases, and those are broadcast to their viewership. Facts are much easier to obtain today, but few people go through the trouble.

I get worried when people start to use disparate percentages to push policy (the 99% vs. the 1%). Creating victims and villians with that kind of talk is dangerous, and it can lead inintended consequences.

Ash78, voting early and often > Berang 08/31/2015 at 11:59

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I always loved that last quote, I’ve seen it used quite a bit. And I think in many ways, Goering understood that part personally — he was the ultimate “company man” of all the high-level Nazis. He allegedly didn’t have a personal grudge against the Jews like most of them, but he still carried out atrocities to maintain his position and impress the Fuhrer.

WhyWagonIfNotWagonFast > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 08/31/2015 at 12:03

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They re-enact the civil war in Canada?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > WhyWagonIfNotWagonFast 08/31/2015 at 12:09

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Yes.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > WhyWagonIfNotWagonFast 08/31/2015 at 12:10

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http://www.acwhrs.com

Ash78, voting early and often > BrtStlnd 08/31/2015 at 12:12

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You have to remember that for thousands of years, slaveowning was a way of life for most of the world. So there were definitely different degrees of it. “The good kind” (while still abhorrent) would have provided a better life than a lot of free, minimum wage people or migrant workers have even today. Never mind today’s sex slavery, which is true slavery.

/not an apologist, just making a point

bubblestheturtle > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 19:25

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I have always found the psychology interesting. How far will humans go to maintain a strongly held belief? In this case the belief was that owning other people was morally acceptable (I mean the bible has slaves right?). The answer is that they will kill (and die).
‘Belief’ is a powerful thing in us. Sometimes dangerously so, since it doesn’t require facts, and in some cases deliberately avoids the pesky things. Certainly economics were involved, but not everyone was a slave owner. Which gets back to the OP's perspective.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Ash78, voting early and often 08/31/2015 at 21:12

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not even the 1% the .01%

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 09/01/2015 at 11:35

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Amen... And their political lobbying makes sure it’s an ever enduring trend to line their pockets

SOCdriver > Ash78, voting early and often 09/09/2015 at 14:00

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We did the same thing in the 2000’s. You want to be a US Citizen? Take this gun, get on that C-130 and shoot some middle eastern people.