Gun article shared on the FP

"Scary__goongala!" (corymagee)
08/27/2015 at 17:00 • Filed to: None

100

Makes me feel Like I’m on crazy pills

DISCUSSION (100)

Sam > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:05

Was it shared? Or just Kinja’s scrolling boxes of typically-NSFW content?

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:05

Because it’s true?

Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready > Sam
08/27/2015 at 17:06

The latter.

My citroen won't start > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:10

It is all true though.

wiffleballtony > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:11

What article? I imagine it was the typical Gawker fare of hysteria and blatant oversight of actual facts to support an ideology.

Takuro Spirit > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:12

Kinja'd!!!

MRW I read that Gawker article title and had no idea it was about a song.

Scary__goongala! > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
08/27/2015 at 17:14

I don’t think people should be afraid of inanimate objects. Yes they are dangerous in the wrong hands but some evil person still has to use it. Guns make these actions easier but people who want to commit these acts will just find another way. No I don’t think everyone should have a gun. But we need to believe in the fact that some people are trained and secure enough to protect the rest of us. And I don’t think gun laws will stop many of the crimes people do to each other. I don’t mean to start an argument but I don’t think the author wants to accept that guns are a part of our culture and society.

Sweet Trav > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:14

We need to have a real, functional dialogue to establish what gun ownership means in this country. I am a gun owner, and I can’t say that currently, I’m a proud gun owner as so many of us currently do. I own a handgun for sport shooting, and a few hunting rifles and shotguns. My father the fervent outdoorsman doesn’t own any handguns, and like me has rifles, shotguns, crossbows, etc. for hunting use. I grew up shooting, I grew up hunting (though I’m not particularly a fan, mostly an excuse to drink beers and bond with dear old dad after a day of sitting in the woods freezing my ass off) and I’m a pretty even keel individual.

There are two different, maybe even three different Americas when it comes to guns, there is the suburban/urban opinion that guns are inherrantly dangerous and need to be more regulated, if not banned. Then there is the traditional outdoorsman view of, “If I can’t kill what I’m shooting at with 5 rounds, I have no business owning a gun”, but I like to shoot, and hunt, so hands off my Remington pump shotgun. Then there is the paranoid nutjob opinion, that the government will take our guns, and we need to protect our homes and our families, and more importantly to unseat the government if it becomes to tyrannical, this opinion is laughable.

First, if you think any level of assault style weapon is going to protect you or your family against the government, you’re just ignorant. They have fucking drones and M1 Abrams tanks. You will be a small crater, if the government says so. Also the “shit” will not hit the “fan”. There will not be marauding hordes, and you, a single person with a semi-auto high capacity weapon don’t stand a chance. Accept your lack of control, understand that guns do not make you any safer. All in all this opinion of what guns and gun ownership is, is bullshit.

The suburban/urban opinion is based in fear. If I’m honest, I think that people in close urban/suburban environments do have something to fear when it comes to guns, very few positive things happen with them in this environment. I do however believe that fear is in part based in ignorance. Most people have never held a gun, or been trained on its proper use. Target shooting can be a whole lot of fun, and can take quite the edge off a rough day. At the same time, too many people and children die accidentally from firearms, as a responsible firearm owner I make sure that mine are locked up, and the ammunition is in a separate place, and the weapons are always unloaded. This should be law. Mandatory trigger/action locks, mandatory locked ammo storage. You should also have to carry increased liability insurance, and be held both civilly and criminally liable if someone dies by your gun (except in cases of self-defense)

I think that one the biggest reasons why we have so many unintentional gun deaths in this country is a lack of training, to put this into perspective, you can’t drive a 300 horsepower, 4000lb death mobile on a public road without a license, and it’s express purpose isn’t even killing people. Training and licensing of gun owners should be mandatory. The hunters in the group shouldn’t have a problem with this, since they underwent a hunter’s safety course, in which weapon safety was one of the topics.

Finally, if you want to own a military style assault weapon, why not register with a state militia? You want the hardware, accept the responsibility. Guess what part of the requirements for joining said militia: mental health screenings, a background check, and an interview. With this you’ll get training on how to use your weapon, training on how to deal with angry, violent people that doesn’t involve violence in return, and basic combat and field skills. You want to play soldier at the range looking all Tacti-cool and Call of Duty? Sign on the dotted line and make it official.

Simply put, I’m just so tired and depressed about guns in this country, they don’t have to be a bad thing, even though they are inherently dangerous (so are fireworks and auto racing) We The People need to have a discussion as a country, not the NRA, not our politicians, to determine how gun ownership has changed from 1787 to 2015 and what we want to do. I’m tired of watching innocent people be killed, for no good reason, other than someone had a bad day, or a bad childhood, or a chemical imbalance in their brain. I’m so tired of it, that if I had to give my guns up (some of which have been in my family for generations, and are considered heirlooms) I wouldn’t even be that upset. Sure some of you will say that, “but that won’t stop criminals from getting them” you’re right it won’t, but it will prevent the angry spouse from “losing it” and shooting their significant other, from the 6 year old bringing dad’s pistol into class and accidentally shooting his classmates. It could have prevented Sandy Hook, Columbine, and Roanoke.

The first step to fixing a problem is admitting that you have one.

Scary__goongala! > My citroen won't start
08/27/2015 at 17:16

I agree with some of it but not of it. And I just thinks he is flat out wrong about certain aspects.

Scary__goongala! > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 17:17

The author has some good points but I think he completely misses the point on certain things.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:17

Did you read the article though? it basically said that there are some people with valid reasons and/or training, and they are okay to have guns, but the vast majority shouldn’t.

Rainbow > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:17

Are they, though? Better yet, do they have to be? I’m not exactly agreeing nor disagreeing, but guns are a hell of a lot more dangerous than people like to think they are. A huge number of fatal shootings are accidents by otherwise normal, good people. It’s way too easy for someone to own a gun well before he/she is ready for the responsibility, and we have idiots like the NRA insisting that it’s somehow safer for everyone to own one, including those who really shouldn’t.

wiffleballtony > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:17

Link?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:19

Except that most of the country isn’t taught to respect the power those objects imbue. And that the article is only partially correct. We don’t just have a problem with guns, we have a problem with violence, and we refuse to address it.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:20

Oh my goodness yes, this.^

SVTyler > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 17:21

This one . It definitely leans Gawker but like Sacry said it makes a lot of valid points, namely that most people with guns are untrained to handle them and that the country is a much different place than when the 2nd Amendment was written. Just don’t go to the comment section.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:21

Ditto what you said.

crowmolly > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:23

I wasn’t going to comment in here but this sums up my feelings perfectly.

If you try to be reasonable with an anti-gun person you are painted as a paranoid maniac.

If you try to be reasonable with an anti-tyranny gun owner you are painted as a fucking fudd and traitor to the 2nd Amendment. Any concessions to ownership are just stepping stones to a total ban.

No room for moderation.

Scary__goongala! > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:23

Very good points. Problem is I don’t think anyone has a single solution to solve the problems. How are we going to solve the problem without encroaching on other people’s rights? When we start to do that we open a whole other box of problems.

DoYouEvenShift > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:24

As a “gun nut” I agree that not all people should own guns. Duh right!

I own several and consider myself an enthusiast. But I do think its way too easy to get them. I think banning them(not gonna happen) is a terrible idea and would lead to more chaos than reduce it.

It would be like trying to ban alcohol or tobacco or drugs.

Scary__goongala! > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
08/27/2015 at 17:27

I think people just don’t understand the value of life and what taking one means. Violence is thrown into our faces everyday now. And people don’t know how to properly solve their problems.

wiffleballtony > SVTyler
08/27/2015 at 17:27

Just finished reading, not one valid point in there.

ttyymmnn > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 17:29

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/america-has-lo…

SVTyler > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 17:29

Fair enough man.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:29

Good god that was cringe worthy. Mostly the comments, but seriously.

As played out as it is the whole “guns dont kill people, people kill people” is fairly true. I have four uncles who are major gun enthusiasts, but they do not fuck around with them. Doesnt matter if its 150 years old or brand new, they treat them with the up most respect at all times. And thats where the issue lies, too many people dont respect these dangerous objects, and people get hurt because of it.

The world can be a shitty place, and people will get hurt. Whether it be by gun or butter, its gonna happen.

Also, ban all firearms? lolwut?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:31

That’s what I just said.

Sweet Trav > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:31

Well the NFA of 1938 limited the types of weapons people owned, same with the now expired Brady Bill. I say add another tax stamp license class for military style weapons and handguns that requires safety classes and the purchase or proof of purchase of two safes in order to purchase a gun. I don’t want to restrict anyone who can legally own a gun from getting one, I just want to make sure they can conduct themselves in a manner fitting a person who should own a gun.

Scary__goongala! > Rainbow
08/27/2015 at 17:33

Yes I think they are. If they have to be I think is just an opinion really. People do stupid shit with other potentially dangerous things way too often as well. I think guns get the most attention because they are the most graphic and some people have just always hated guns. There probably are not too many people who hate fireworks but people die from them all the time.

Sweet Trav > crowmolly
08/27/2015 at 17:33

The slippery slope argument can fuck right off.

Scary__goongala! > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
08/27/2015 at 17:34

Guess that means we agree about that particular facet of the problem then.

crowmolly > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:35

I don’t think there is any type of remotely simple solution. You could get in to the prevalence of gun violence and such in our everyday lives, too. Movies, video games, and so on. And no, I’m not saying movies and games cause mass shootings, but they do create a certain degree of familiarity with firearms and using them to solve problems. As an example, ask a teenage boy what they think of a .50AE Desert Eagle.

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:35

Just as a thought, what makes the government so wise in determining what amount of firearm you “need?” The government is comprised largely of people who are just as fallible as anyone else. Also, if you compare the level of weaponry that was available to the public in the 18th century vs now, you’ll find its the equivalent of the citizenry using bows and arrows. Finally, and not that I am that type of person but, you’re absolutely incorrect on your tanks and drones comparison. At the end of the day you’re kicking down doors to secure a populated area, which is troop intensive and dangerous.

crowmolly > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:36

No shit.

PS I think the NFA was 1934.

Scary__goongala! > crowmolly
08/27/2015 at 17:36

Yeah what people are easily exposed to definitely reduces the responsibility they think they need to have with them.

wiffleballtony > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
08/27/2015 at 17:36

It went so far as to say even the police don’t need guns.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:37

Kinja'd!!!

I pretty much said exactly this on that article. You sir are correct on all points.

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“Canada has guns, lots of them, mostly hunting rifles.

Canada has gun control.

Canada does NOT have a gun problem.

I don’t know why it is no damn difficult for americans to understand that they have a problem.

Here’s a few of the simple rules we have and guess what when you don’t have a loaded gun in your purse. Little Johny doesn’t accidently shoot you in the face while you’re doing groceries.

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Non-restricted firearms must be unloaded and either:

Made inoperable with a secure locking device (such as a trigger lock); orHave bolts or bolt-carriers removed; orSecurely locked in a sturdy container, cabinet or room that cannot be easily broken intoExcept if: (1) in areas where it is legal to fire a gun, non-restricted firearms needed for predator control can temporarily be left unlocked and operable, but they must be kept unloaded and all ammunition must be stored separately, and (2) in wilderness areas, non-restricted firearms can be left unlocked and/or operable, but must be left unloaded (ammunition may be kept nearby).

Restricted firearms must be unloaded and either:

Made inoperable with a secure locking device (such as a trigger lock) and securely locked in a sturdy container, cabinet or room that cannot be easily broken into; orLocked in a vault, safe or room that was built or adapted for storing these types of firearmsFor automatic firearms, the bolt(s) or bolt-carrier(s) must be removed, if removable, and stored in a separate locked room that cannot be easily broken into

Ammunition:

Must be kept in a location where it is not available for loading the firearm, unless both the firearm and its ammunition are securely locked up (this is not a requirement, only a recommendation).

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Firearms left unattended in a car must be locked in the trunk or in a similar lockable compartment. If the vehicle does not have a trunk or compartment, the firearm must be placed out of sight inside the vehicle and the vehicle must be locked (same rules apply for transport of replica firearms)Non-restricted firearms must be: transported unloaded (with the exception of muzzle-loading rifles, which can be transported loaded between hunting sites so long as the firing cap or flint is removed).Restricted and prohibited firearms must be: unloaded, made inoperable with a secure locking device, and locked in a sturdy container. Prohibited firearms must also have their bolt(s) or bolt-carrier(s) removed, if removable.

Do you know why I feel safe without a loaded gun holstered on my hip? because 99.9% of everyone around me also doesn’t have a loaded gun on their hip.

Yes shit does still happen but VERY VERY VERY rarely and you can go more than 2 days without hearing about another shooting in the news.

I don’t have to worry “Is my co-worker in a shitty mood today? he looks a little unstable. I sure hope he doesn’t shoot this place up”.

Do you know my self defense system in my house is? A good old fashioned Louisville Slugger. I’ll never have to use it but it’s there just incase. I’ve never even shot a gun and I managed to survive for 30 years on this planet already. How is that even possible? Oh yeah we don’t have a gun problem, that’s why.”

Sweet Trav > DoYouEvenShift
08/27/2015 at 17:38

Training and licensing, is my solution. To me it is crazy how anyone who enjoys guns, shooting, etc is ok with the cavalier attitude too many have with them.

Scary__goongala! > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
08/27/2015 at 17:39

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we would be great real buddies/drinking buddies.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:42

You go to WV right?

I’m sure our paths will cross at some point.

CounterTorqueSteer > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
08/27/2015 at 17:42

Well said

Scary__goongala! > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis
08/27/2015 at 17:44

Yes I most certainly do

LongbowMkII > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:45

all the stars. I could not agree with your stance any more.

DoYouEvenShift > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:47

Yes I totally agree. I know people who leave them sitting on their kitchen counter or in the glovebox of their unattended car! Thats nuts! Your asking for problems!!

Training, licensing, background and psychological exams.

When I purchased my first firearm, I was very surprised at how quick and easy it was. In and out in 30 minutes. I do have a clean record and not so much as a speeding ticket. But I had more trouble with background checks at retail jobs when I was in my teens.

vwbeamer > Rainbow
08/27/2015 at 17:47

More people are killed by hammers than assault rifles. more kids under the age of five are killed by flat screen TVs falling on them than Guns.

More needs to be done to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, but banning certain types of guns or taking every ones guns is not going to help. Some the cities with the strictest gun control laws have the most crime, Baltimore, Chicago, DC.

Sweet Trav > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 17:48

Please explain to me where in my comment you think I am “letting the government determine what amount of firearm you need” Because it doesn’t say anything remotely close to that. It says if you want own a particular weapon, there are responsibilities that come with owning that weapon. (Reserve Militia, safety training, etc) How anyone can own a weapon and not demand safe handling, keeping, and operation of that weapon is beyond me.

Of course the government does exactly what you think I said. the The NFA of 1934 expressly limits the types of weapons that people may own. (SBR’s, Explosives, Destructive Devices) This has stood as law for many years. So yes, the government can and does limit the types of weapons people can own, however there is also the FFL system which allows vetted individuals, and dealers the ability to own weapons that others may not.

If the citizenry were to revolt, there is no line between combatant and civilian, and a government tyrannical enough to cause the citizenry to revolt would probably use far worse that drones and tanks to quell a rebellion. Think Fuel Air Bombs and Chemical weapons.

Cleavername > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:49

2 safes? Does one fit inside the other? do you need two keys and two people to turn them? Are there launch codes involved?

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 17:49

First they came for their editorial autonomy, then they came for their guns...

Scorpio GTX1 > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:51

I find a couple of issues with your argument.

“and more importantly to unseat the government if it becomes to tyrannical, this opinion is laughable.”

Because tyranny never happens, right? Oh, except for the fact that it does, all the time, and you need not look further than Syria and Iraq to see why it might be nice to possess the means of avoiding your own beheading. Do Americans need guns to protect themselves from the government? No. Not right now. But what about in 100, 200, or 500 years? Are you willing to give up the ability to do something forever just because you don’t need it right now? Not to mention that the kind of guns these paranoid preppers buy are rarely the same kind that are used in typical murders. Banning or heavily restricting their purchase will accomplish little.

Finally, if you want to own a military style assault weapon, why not register with a state militia? You want the hardware, accept the responsibility.

Sorry, but this is simply preposterous. If I own a track day car, does that mean I should be obligated to become a professional race car driver?

People are getting all emotional over one high-profile shooting, and it’s idiotic. If you have a problem with gun violence, take it up with the rest of the 8,000+ firearm homicides that occurred in the past year that you didn’t give a shit about until yesterday. The truth is, most people don’t really care about gun violence as a whole, they just wait until it begins intruding on their lives through the TV before they make a stink about it. Then they go post about it on Facebook, or if they happen to work for Gawker, they can rave about it there too until they forget about it all in a week. Is there a problem with gun violence in America? Yes. But it’s not the guns that are the problem, it’s the people who feel they have a reason to use them. Other countries have high rates of gun ownership too, and simply don’t experience the same problems with murder. The true culprit for the bulk of it is social inequality, poverty, poor education, etc., but those are all difficult problems to solve that exhaust most people’s attention span, so they focus on guns instead.

Sweet Trav > Cleavername
08/27/2015 at 17:52

A gun is really bad weapon without any ammo in it. Ammo and Weapons should be stored separately.

crowmolly > DoYouEvenShift
08/27/2015 at 17:53

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:53

Well it was implied that if you want a certain level of weapon join a government militia, ergo if you don’t the government would prohibit said ownership. Which would be the government determining what you need. I am well aware of the NFA Act. I just don’t believe it solves anything. Like I said I don’t believe in that insurrection nonsense, but history has shown how painful it is to deal with a large population with small arms in an urban environment.

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:55

Have you gone through the process to get a Class 3? Have you dealt with BATFE?

Leon711 > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:55

Weighing in as a one time Gun user in a country with Strict gun control, it’s like you say, people lack the training and it’s too easy to misuse a gun if gun safety hasn’t been drilled into you. I live in the UK and my experience with guns was perfectly as I was an Army cadet between 13-16, it my time I used shotguns for clay pigeon shooting and the ranges I used numerous rifles, as well as weapons like the L86A1 LSW and the L7 GPMG, with the exception of the instructors everyone was a kid, we were taught to respect firearms, were educated in their safe use and had to pass safe operation tests prior to being allowed to fire anything at the range. Adequate training can prevent some of the killings with guns in the US due to negligence. The revenge and massacres, you gotta lay down some o’dat freedom and submit to a background and mental health check, nothing will change if that doesn’t happen. Bonus picture of 15 year old me on exercise in a barn in the Brecon Beacons in Wales.

Kinja'd!!!

Sweet Trav > Scorpio GTX1
08/27/2015 at 17:56

If you think small arms will defend you from the government, you’re delusional. If you think small arms will protect you from the government 500 years from now, you’re even more delusional.

If you own a track car an want to take it to the track, you have to pass tech. If you want to race that track car in most sanctioned events, you have to have a racing license. Same logic applies.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 17:59

You get it!

Growing up in the mid-west I’ve met far too many anti-social people with bunkers and ammo crates in their basements. I never go back to those places.

jjhats > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 18:01

You have to admit it's a lot hArder to go on a killing rampage with an axe or a knife. The handgun is the single tool designed to kill people. Like that's it's purpose. Rifles are different and not a threat imo. It sucks that people who like range shooting shouldn't be allowed to do that but handguns are made to kill simple as that. With this said there is no way we are ending guns in this country without a crazy war being brought on. It just sucks we started off with guns because countries that don't have them are not coming remotely close to the casualties we have

Sweet Trav > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:02

Through the Class 3 Process? Personally, No. A co-worker of mine is a collector and has to deal with them, he’s also an FFL though.

And the BATFE is probably understaffed, overworked and all that jazz, the goverment is typically inefficient, and if we wanted to institute something like this, we would have to invest and probably restructure the BATFE, personally I’d trust the state police to handle a “Class 4” style license for Handguns and Long guns.

Sweet Trav > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:03

No, that’s you determining what you need. The government doesn’t determine the level of car I need, they just tell me if I am safe driver or not, And to drive there are other responsibilities, registration, insurance, etc. same thing.

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:04

But it started with regulating short barreled shotguns, then it’s select fire and , suppressors, then it’s barrel length, flash suppressors, pistol grips and then it’s high capacity magazines. Kind of the definition of a slippery slope. And honestly I don’t remember reading about mass slaughter in the streets with full autos back in the 60s.

wiffleballtony > crowmolly
08/27/2015 at 18:05

Ironically the .50 DE. Wouldn’t fall under most bans since it’s under ten rounds per mag.

Scorpio GTX1 > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:09

Rome was thriving 500 years before its collapse, and the state of things is quite a lot more fragile now than it was then. America won’t last forever. You and I will likely never see its demise, but somebody will. For their sake, I hope they have guns.

Sweet Trav > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:11

The slippery slope argument, has always, will always be a bunch of bullshit. It’s a fallacy and not an argument that should ever be heard when discussing law passed by a democratic process.

wiffleballtony > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
08/27/2015 at 18:12

Clearly Canada has no intent on supporting guns for self defense as is their sovereign right. The amount of time it would take to successfully load a weapon in the minute chance you would need it in the middle of the night would make it an exercise in futility. As far as using a bat, some people may be strong and willing to bludgeon someone to death but others aren’t, sucks for them. I’m in America, I’ve successfully lived past 30 and I have no had to use a gun on anyone as well.

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:14

Explain to me why it’s BS. From where I am sitting the restrictions get more severe as time progesses for better or worse.

JR1 > Rainbow
08/27/2015 at 18:14

They are a part of our society and I do think they have to be. There was a bright line drawn in 1789 that will forever engrain guns into our society. Yes they have changed drastically over the past 2 centuries but we have laws that have adapted with it.

Scary__goongala! > jjhats
08/27/2015 at 18:14

Of course its harder, but as I said some determined enough piece of trash will find a way to do bad things. I don’t think it’s right to say that just handguns are only made to kill. Rifles have been used for bad reasons as well more than once. Weapons are made to suit the need of the customer and unfortunately we have to trust that people will use them correctly. I know that can’t always be the truth though.

crowmolly > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:14

Yeah, but I was using it as an example of relevance in culture. A lot of people know what a DE is and want to own one- but have never held or shot one. It’s famous because of movies and games. Some say the same thing about H&K’s stuff.

I can tell you are a seasoned firearms guy (or girl?) and I think you’d agree that it’s basically a range or safe queen and that there’s a bunch of other stuff you’d rather own first.

yamahog > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:15

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:16

The Class 3 process is more about finding ways to deny your application than facilitating the determination of your skill. For example they ask if you have ever been arrested. Which seems reasonable enough but it’s a trick question because a traffic stop counts as an arrest. Answer that one wrong and you’re out 200 bucks and 6 months.

wiffleballtony > crowmolly
08/27/2015 at 18:18

Firearms is something I picked up after moving to my current locale from San Francisco. Ironic huh?

Rainbow > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 18:19

The difference is guns are designed to kill. If you fire a gun and nothing dies, that’s using it incorrectly.

Rainbow > vwbeamer
08/27/2015 at 18:20

And the countries with overall stricter gun laws have much, much, much less crime than we do.

wiffleballtony > yamahog
08/27/2015 at 18:20

That tells me what it is not why the historic evidence of restrictions isn’t a slippery slope.

Sweet Trav > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:20

Each one of the restrictions actually had purpose other than “fucking over the gun nuts” Originally short barreled shotguns were regulated, not just for their conceal ability, but inaccuracy, not to mention their cost, vs a handgun. The same applies for SBR’s. Automatic weapons were the weapons of choice for organized crime for decades. In some places, still are. Flash suppressors, pistol grips and hi-cap magazines are still currently legal, but probably should be in a licensed class. The DC gun ban that was overturned, actually had statistical merit behind it, DC had a documented problem with handguns, by the logic of the NFA it should have been overturned, at the same time, the supreme court does say that the types of weapons that people can be own, can be limited, would you really want to live in a world where anyone can run down to wal-mart and buy a Mk 19 automatic grenade launcher?

Sweet Trav > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:22

Then you should probably know your shit before you take the exam. If you honestly believe that we need to make it EASIER to get Class 3 weapons, I’m just done talking with you.

El Rivinado > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 18:24

I am a gun owner, and I read through the article. It made me angry, however, there is one reason we need to consider. I can go on about how banning guns doesn’t work, how we need to change how the mental health laws in this country because only THEN will background checks and etcetera work, how the biggest problems of gun violence aren’t isolated incidents that get media attention rather it’s in poorer areas. I could say all of that.

But I won’t.

Because the fact of the matter is, there is I think one big problem with guns that we need to address. The second amendment is a fundamental right of this country, it’s the most important amendment after the first IMO, and it’s something that I’m grateful to have. However, much like the first amendment, we’ve got one big problem that no ones addressing.

We’re treating a fundamental right, like it’s a shiny bauble.

Think about it, I play first-person shooters, still do, and I watch guys on Youtube that have firearms based channels, still do. But I also did my homework, I got range time, I read up, and I still treat my firearms with the utmost respect and safety.

But very few people who haven’t grown up around guns do the same.

Think about how many kids play COD/Battlefield/whatever, and think about their almost lassie-faire attitude towards them. They can tell what the gun is, what it fires, how big the magazine is, how fast the fire rate is, etc. But you give that kid a gun without anyone to guide him, what’s the first thing he’s going to do. Point it at his friend with his finger on the trigger and the safety catch off. These are some of the most dangerous things in the world, something that should be treated with caution at the forefront, but these kids will treat it like it’s a toy. The same thing with movies, everyone loves action movies and gunfights and explosions, but if those people were to pick up a gun in real life, they would be scared shitless. They’re treating something protected by the constitution like it’s a harmless prop on a movie set, but they may not ever educate themselves on firearms safety or ever learn what they’re doing is dangerous.

In short, the American public wants to be sold on the fantasy of how cool guns are, without dealing with the reality of how dangerous they can be.

That’s not okay, this is something that can be argued back and forth, but the point is, these are things protected by the Constitution and it’s just sort of like “eh, whatever”

That’s not okay.

You want to know why people aren’t scared of cars? Not because of tests, not because of mandatory laws, not any of that. Most of us aren’t scared, because we respect them. The fact is cars are cool, but all of us realize just how dangerous these things can be, we don’t slack off for one second behind the wheel, and keep in mind, you’re far more likely to die from an auto accident than from a crazed gunman. But we still treat them as (potentially) dangerous objects, and we always respect how much of a risk it poses every time we turn the key, we should be doing this with guns, but we’re not.

We’re selling fantasies of James Bond in his Aston Martin going at 100 mph, without contrasting it with the reality.

Now, look, I understand there are much more factors at play here, I understand that this is culture bound, and that solving the gun violence dilemma in this country is going to take more hard work than feel-good laws and ineffective methods. But, we all need a reality check, we can’t just have these isolated incidents come up again, have everyone talking about how horrible it is, and then have everyone go back to living their lives and having guns be treated as toys to live out Action Movie dreams. I’m one of the lucky ones, I can play video games all day long, but the minute I step on the firing line at the range, I’m treating it with the utmost respect. Because there is a time and place for a fantasy, but that time is not when it’s actually in your hands. We don’t all drive like we’re in Fast and the Furious, we shouldn’t be treating guns like we’re in Commando. Until we as a population can learn to live with that, and realize that, we may never have a chance at getting anywhere reasonable in our debates.

Rainbow > JR1
08/27/2015 at 18:24

The second amendment actually doesn’t give everyone the right to bear arms. Only the specific militias that don’t exist anymore. The fact that we can get them so easily now is only a privilege and not a right, nor should it be.

I also hate how people seem to think that I’m in favor of banning all guns for everyone. Hell no. I just want it to be impossible to buy a semi-automatic concealable weapon without a background check or a permit, and yet anyone can do that just by going to a gun show. You can’t honestly say that isn’t fucked up.

Scary__goongala! > Rainbow
08/27/2015 at 18:25

People buy guns for the sole intention of shooting at targets. Theres plenty of people who never want to kill. They buy and shoot guns for the same reason we like to drive, it’s just fun.

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:26

Pistol grips and flash suppressors are still illegal in some states that enacted their own AWB after the original sunsetted. I don’t believe that everyone needs a grenade launcher but I do believe some features shouldn’t be burdened with the lengthy, expensive and less than honest Class 3 process. I don’t believe in the slippery slope but I see the logic given historic precedent.

Rainbow > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 18:27

Right, but guns weren’t invented for target shooting. They are specifically designed to be lethal weapons. It’s impossible to compare them to cars, fireworks, or anything else. None of that stuff is designed to kill people.

Scary__goongala! > El Rivinado
08/27/2015 at 18:27

I agree with everything you just said

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:28

No what I’m saying is making some weapons that aren’t class 3 currently into that doesn’t make sense. BUT you’re fine with semantically invalidating someone’s rights is ok because they didn’t know doing 32 in a 30 would count?

Scary__goongala! > Rainbow
08/27/2015 at 18:29

They aren’t designed to kill people, but poor drivers in cars kill more people than guns.

Sweet Trav > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:29

Well if you believe in state’s rights, that the within the discretion of the state to have their own AWB.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:29

The math speaks for itself.

Average gun related deaths per year.

Canada(gun control): 173

USA(No gun control): 9,146

OBVIOUSLY the system is working.

Even adjusted for population we have still less than 1 fifth of what the US has(1,571 vs 9,146).

Rainbow > Scary__goongala!
08/27/2015 at 18:30

Okay, but that’s irrelevant. Do people kill people with guns? Yes. Therefore, that is a problem.

You can’t negate one major problem just by pointing out another one.

Sweet Trav > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:30

Its the the fact that you did 32 in 30 its the fact that you lied about it or that you “have something to hide”

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:31

I agree with you.

JR1 > Rainbow
08/27/2015 at 18:32

I disagree it should be a right. The ease in which we get them is...interesting. And I know the first part of the second says Militia however the second section “The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” I believe, as well as many others, encompasses all US citizens.

I never said you were in favor of banning guns either. And I agree owning a small weapon like a pistol should require a gun safety course. You need one for a concealed carry permit but it might as well be required to take a similar course to own a pistol. I took one in my hunting safety class and it taught me to respect the weapon I carry every time I carry it.

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:33

Do you think that is filtering out any murders?

Sweet Trav > El Rivinado
08/27/2015 at 18:34

I don’t agree with everything you’ve said, but overall I think you’re on the correct side of this debate. Training, Respect, Understanding.

wiffleballtony > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
08/27/2015 at 18:34

How many of those gun related deaths include police shootings?

Sweet Trav > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:35

No, but running their social security information probably does, or any of the other background checks they perform.

wiffleballtony > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:36

But you run the SSN on a normal purchase through the NICS.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Sweet Trav
08/27/2015 at 18:43

What would you consider a “military style” weapon? A Ruger Mini 14 with a black synthetic stock and pistol grip, or a Ruger Mini 14 with a hunting stock?

Yes people need to be smarter with how they store their weapons but making sure that poor people can’t own firearms isn’t the answer, because that’s all a tax stamp does. Yes, safety classes and background checks on a universal criminal database on firearm purchases, but making them more expensive is just unfair to groups who normally need them the most.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:47

2014 had an estimated 623 police shootings in the USA. How the hell do you plan to justify the other 8,523 gun related deaths.

Your logic is most certainly flawed.

wiffleballtony > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
08/27/2015 at 18:48

Not justifying anything, I’ve just seen a lot of statistics that include people like the Boston bomber as one of those “victims”. I will say this though if we are really trying to save lives, take a look at pill overdose stats.

vwbeamer > Rainbow
08/27/2015 at 18:58

That’s simply not true. Jamaica has very strict gun laws, and there violent crime rate is much higher than ours, a little research will point to many countries in south Americia, the carbeanian and in the middle east that have strict control and very high rates of violent crime. So if you want to make up you own facts and statics you can argue against private owner ship of guns. It’s hard to argue the against gun ownership once the emotioal pleas and lies are removed from the argument.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 18:59

Yes but even if you take these “victims” out of the equation you still have over 8,500 gun deaths in one year !!! That’s the highest of any “civilised” country.

Obviously there is a problem. If you think there isn’t then you may be part of that problem.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > wiffleballtony
08/27/2015 at 19:13

Another question for you, please put the second amendment aside for one second.

If you’ve successfully lived this long without ever needing to use a gun. Why do you feel so strongly that you need to have one at all ? I mean statistically speaking if you actually needed one to survive you would of used it by now.