"Amoore100" (amoore100)
08/24/2015 at 21:20 • Filed to: Oppo Asks, First Car, Infiniti, Audi
4
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"Amoore100" (amoore100)
08/24/2015 at 21:20 • Filed to: Oppo Asks, First Car, Infiniti, Audi | 4
| 100 |
Hey Oppo, I have a friend who is about a year younger than me but is looking for a car to start driving on a permit in a few months...her parents are divorced but make a good living and so she lives pretty independently. Her dad has given her a budget of about $6K to find a car, and by default I have been drafted to find one. Here are the requirements:
Preferably newer than 2000
Would like color to be black, gray, red, or dark blue
Sedan or SUV, but open to wagons
That’s it. I have added a few of my own to make it more sensible:
Reliable, so no Passat W8s or anything
>20 mpg, because less than that is a bit of a pain
Also, something a bit interesting that’s not a Camry or Civic...
Last night we were talking and she found things like a Rav4 with a busted transmission, a dune buggy, and an Isuzu NPR...I on the other hand found a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , a Merc W202, an Iveco Box truck, and a Volvo 780 (no, not the Bertone, the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ) When we actually got serious though, I found a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (Her mom has a Y50 M45) and two 2000 Audi A4 Avants, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ...I’m wondering if the Audis will be maintenance nightmares...
Anyways, what is your take on the situation Oppo?
1111111111111111111111
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:24 |
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Miata.
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Amoore100
> 1111111111111111111111
08/24/2015 at 21:24 |
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Thanks, but practicality is important... :P
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1111111111111111111111
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:25 |
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And no audi or vw.
Money Hustard
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:26 |
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There’s a reason those Audis are so cheap, don’t send your friend down that path.
An early 2000’s Honda Accord (with a fixed transmission) is a good bet. Nissan Maximas in her price range are also great.
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1111111111111111111111
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:26 |
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Way more practical than you would think.
TheHondaBro
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:26 |
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Corolla/Matrix XR/XRS.
JR1
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:27 |
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Cadillac STS or CTS. You can get an excellant V6 STS at that price. Every option you ever wanted
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Amoore100
> Money Hustard
08/24/2015 at 21:27 |
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I thought of the Maxima as well. How bad are the Audis? I really want to get her into a wagon of sorts but there are very few newer than 2000 that are in her price range, and though she likes my Volvo she wants something of her own style...
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Amoore100
> 1111111111111111111111
08/24/2015 at 21:27 |
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But no four seats. So not the answer. For once.
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Amoore100
> 1111111111111111111111
08/24/2015 at 21:28 |
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Probably a good idea.
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Money Hustard
> 1111111111111111111111
08/24/2015 at 21:28 |
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This this this.
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Amoore100
> JR1
08/24/2015 at 21:28 |
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Never even crossed my mind. Those two are probably good but Catera? Yeah, right...
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Money Hustard
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:29 |
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Don’t forget the Mazda 3 hatchback, many wonderful specimens can be had at 6K.
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Amoore100
> TheHondaBro
08/24/2015 at 21:29 |
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A bit boring, IMO the Infiniti is a better fit...I really want to find an IS Sportcross though...
Alex B
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:29 |
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Honda Fit?
2005 generation Toyota Rav 4?
Lexus IS?
Lexus ES?
Lexus RX?
Not sure how many of these fit in the budget... Just throwing things out there
Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:30 |
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If she isn’t an enthusiast, a Civic, Camry, or Corolla check all of those boxes well. They are pretty safe, super reliable, and they can get well over the efficiency requirement. A first car doesn’t need to be fast or fun, in fact a car that doesn’t reward you for apexing a turn is perfect for a first car. Avoid early 2000’s V6 Accords unless they are manual, because they like to eat the automatics.
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Amoore100
> Money Hustard
08/24/2015 at 21:30 |
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Good one! Can be had as hatch as well...
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1111111111111111111111
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:30 |
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Forester, or a camry.
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Money Hustard
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:30 |
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Bro..... If you like this person, avoid the $6K Audis. I can’t stress this enough. Unless you don’t like this person, or want them to resent you longterm. Wagons are indeed hard to come by in the US, but don’t forget the hatchbacks.
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Amoore100
> Alex B
08/24/2015 at 21:31 |
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IS Sportwagon would be immediate buy if one was available, Fit is good but a bit meh, older ESes would fit, RX I think is too large, but I’ve heard the Rav4 is not bad...
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Alex B
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:32 |
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Watch out for rust! Although I'm sure in California it's much less of a threat.
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Amoore100
> Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
08/24/2015 at 21:32 |
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Right. I personally want to get some sort of mid 2000s Japanese luxury because I don’t think she would enjoy the plebeian nature of a Civic or Corolla as much as say a TSX or ES...
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Amoore100
> 1111111111111111111111
08/24/2015 at 21:32 |
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Old Forester maybe, but head gaskets.
jkm7680
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:32 |
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Miata is never the answer.
If you’re looking at Audis, go for the 2.8 engines. They’re much more reliable.
I have a ‘97 A4 2.8 with 140k and it hasn’t had a single reliability related problem in it’s entire life.
Round headlight enthusiast
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:33 |
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Double wishbone era Civic. Hot damn that’s a fun suspension
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Amoore100
> Money Hustard
08/24/2015 at 21:34 |
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Right, hatchbacks are common as well...I figured with low miles and clean appearance it couldn’t be that bad, but I guess there’s a reason they’re low miles...an IS Sportwagon is my best bet but those are incredibly rare...
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Alex B
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:34 |
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The sportwagon didn’t even cross my mind! I was just thinking about the sedan version.
The neighboring Villa in Hawaii had a 2005 Rav 4 S with surfboards on top parked out front. I really liked it.
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Amoore100
> jkm7680
08/24/2015 at 21:36 |
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Hah...not according to everyone else here, but to me, that beige 2.8 looks mighty tempting...and at least we agree that Miata is never the answer: Volvo is. :)
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1111111111111111111111
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:36 |
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2k. But also you’re in awd terrotory where a flat can mean replacing all the rubber. I guess what does the user expect to do with it?
Where have all the lightweights gone?
> TheHondaBro
08/24/2015 at 21:37 |
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My parents had a Vibe, and it wasn’t bad to drive at all. It was comfortable, all the controls were handily available, and they could haul a lot of stuff while getting around 30MPG on the highway.
If you find an 03-06 Vibe GT/Matrix XR-S, it has the same 2ZZ-GE motor and 6MT as the Celica GT-S. You’re welcome.
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Amoore100
> Round headlight enthusiast
08/24/2015 at 21:37 |
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Hmm, a Civic sounds better and better...
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Money Hustard
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:37 |
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Get your mind out of the luxury segment. Those are just badges. At $6K, you are going to want to stick to well optioned high-volume cars. A sound, working car with no squeaks and no non-functioning bits feels so much more luxurious than something with the check engine light on constantly that has equipment that no one can afford to fix. It took me a long time to learn this, but it’s very true.
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jkm7680
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:38 |
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90% of people who talk shit about Audis have never owned Audis.
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Amoore100
> Money Hustard
08/24/2015 at 21:39 |
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Very true but in our area a used Lexus is sometimes better and cheaper than its Toyota counterpart since so many were sold...and with hundreds of shared parts, what I understand is that issues will be comparable between brands...perhaps a TSX would fare well, given that it is a Euro market Accord...
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Amoore100
> jkm7680
08/24/2015 at 21:40 |
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Same goes for Saabs. And Volvos.
Shark-Attack
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:40 |
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You need it to be reliable, but you’re considering the 1.8t?
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jkm7680
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:40 |
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Agreed.
I mainly talk shit about cars that I know ARE shit. You have to get to know a car to really judge it.
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JR1
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:40 |
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I doubt your friend even knows what a Catera is.
http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/5176109328…
Not even the nicest one I have found before. You can get ones with lower miles
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Money Hustard
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:41 |
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The TSX is an extremely good choice, and the wagon is great.
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Amoore100
> Shark-Attack
08/24/2015 at 21:41 |
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I am not an Audi guy so I have no idea how they fare in real-world usage, but these examples seemed clean enough and reputable enough...I guess that I have no experience of the minefield that is early 2000s VAG...
wkiernan
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:41 |
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Drink enough Old Forester and you won’t care about head gaskets. You won’t even be able to find your head.
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Money Hustard
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:42 |
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Lexus too, if you can find them in that price range. Toyota makes extremely good cars.
Boxer_4
> Money Hustard
08/24/2015 at 21:42 |
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My dad had an 01 Passat wagon 1.8T fwd (auto). It was the first German car he ever bought, and probably the last.
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Amoore100
> jkm7680
08/24/2015 at 21:42 |
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Agreed. Hate those who call Volvos and Saabs shit just because they have less brand image than the German brands. I feel as if they have more character, although every car has character if you search deep enough.
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Money Hustard
> Boxer_4
08/24/2015 at 21:44 |
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As I’ve said before , VWs from that era were sketch AF.
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Amoore100
> JR1
08/24/2015 at 21:45 |
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It’s very nice but I’m not sure how much experience she has with GM products (her dad has had two Focuses since I’ve known her) and that was the era just before the bankruptcy...
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Amoore100
> Money Hustard
08/24/2015 at 21:45 |
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Haven’t depreciated enough to buy the wagon, unfortunately...
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Amoore100
> wkiernan
08/24/2015 at 21:46 |
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Thanks, but we’re a little young...five more years before that can happen...
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jkm7680
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:47 |
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They do have a lot of character. My mother has owned two Volvos which were some of the most forgiving cars my family has ever owned. Truly great cars those two.
Audis and their drivers honestly get not much love around these parts, everybody is just too brainwashed that they’re unreliable garbage to understand the appeal of them. Like, if you look on CarComplaints.com, the Dodge Daytona has only one complaint more than the Audi Allroad. That says something alright, when was the last time you even saw a Dodge Daytona?
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Amoore100
> Money Hustard
08/24/2015 at 21:47 |
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Agreed. Million mile Lexus, here we come!
CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:48 |
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Don't touch cateras.
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Amoore100
> Money Hustard
08/24/2015 at 21:48 |
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My uncle has one. I don’t think it’s that bad. He even drives it long distance.
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Shark-Attack
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:50 |
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To be honest I’d avoid just about anything post vw-audi merger. I mean, the 2.8 n/a engine is actually fairly stout, but I would still skip audis. M45 and q45 are barely within the 6k range, I’d recommend checking those out. Also is300, gs300, and if you’re willing to look at some late 90s cars the w140 s300 or a e34 535i are actually extremely reliable other than maybe the air suspension on the w140.
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Amoore100
> jkm7680
08/24/2015 at 21:51 |
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Very true. I have always wanted an Audi from that era, namely A6 Avant or A8, and now that they’re getting cheaper, it could be an interesting experience assuming there’s some cash in the bank for emergencies...we also had two Volvos which made it over 300K miles by the end of their lifetimes, and many memories were made in them.
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Amoore100
> CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
08/24/2015 at 21:51 |
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Even with a ten foot pole.
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Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
> JR1
08/24/2015 at 21:52 |
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The early CTS/STS V6’s were garbage. The 3.6’s enjoyed jumping time.
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CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:52 |
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http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/516981…
Matrix XRS (03-08 because 09-13 is crap) because it has the drivetrain of a Celica GTS, has a peppy revvy engine, can carve corners, for all but one year was a manual only option, 6 speed gearbox, 5 seats, and because hatch. This also has VVTL-I, which feels like turbo boost at 6k to 8k.
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Amoore100
> Shark-Attack
08/24/2015 at 21:53 |
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A clean and cheap IS Sportwagon would be optimal, but the G35 above is quite nice as well...I’m wary of going German since neither of her parents owns European so they wouldn’t be familiar with repair/running costs...
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jkm7680
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:55 |
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They’re good cars, with anything European it’s a good idea to have backup cash, but if you buy a well maintained car it’ll reward you with reliability.
My advice is to follow the recommended maintenance schedule.
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Amoore100
> CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
08/24/2015 at 21:55 |
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Good option, but I’m not sure if any of her parents drive stick, and since they both work full time having practice time is likely rare...and a Matrix without a stick is just painfully boring...
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Shark-Attack
> jkm7680
08/24/2015 at 21:56 |
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Well, the 2.8 is probably the only engine offering from that era of Audi I’d recommend someone buy for a DD.
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Amoore100
> jkm7680
08/24/2015 at 21:57 |
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My dad’s Ford-era V70 has 205K miles and is running strong (knock on wood), but yes, proper maintenance is crucial.
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Amoore100
> Alex B
08/24/2015 at 21:58 |
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Yep, no rust at all in CA...
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jkm7680
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 21:58 |
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It really is, maintenance schedules are a serious must.
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jkm7680
> Shark-Attack
08/24/2015 at 21:59 |
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Agreed, it’s a really great engine. Probably one of, if not the most reliable engine Audi has built.
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Boxer_4
> Money Hustard
08/24/2015 at 22:04 |
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He bought the B5.5 after hearing good things from his coworkers with B5s and seeing good ratings in Consumer Reports (for B5s).
It wasn’t just the big things that failed like the transmission controller ( or the engine in our friend’s 03), but stupid things like the turn signal relay failing at 2 years.
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Shark-Attack
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:04 |
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The m30 in the 535 has been called the most reliable bmw engine more than a couple times, and I had a version of the motor in the s300 just with different fuel injection that went over 300k. Hondas also have a reputation for being reliable but I have never seen more problems with cars than hondas. When it comes to cars its all basically anecdotal evidence so do what you will with it. That said, I’d trust taking a used 535i over the q45 or m45 across the country all day any day. Bmws and mercs from the 90s and earlier are actually very simple and easy to maintain as well. The key to all luxury vehicles is to buy one from someone who didn’t own it as a status symbol.
Steve in Manhattan
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:10 |
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Whoever said Forester is correct, although there’s Hyundai Santa Fe and ... that other Hyundai SUV.
TA4K
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:13 |
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IS sport cross is the Altezza Ghia right? Wagon Altezza? Mate hase the 6MT one, absolutely destroys tyres if he wants it to. I believe they all had LSD’s too, but I’m not sure about the USDM or auto ones.
Arben72
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:13 |
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Saabaru!
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Amoore100
> Steve in Manhattan
08/24/2015 at 22:13 |
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Not so hot on SUVs myself...that’s why I’m headed towards the exec sedan market but I will have to take a look...
Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:15 |
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How bad are the Audis?
YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE ENTIRE FRONT END OFF TO DO ANY THING MORE THAN AN OIL CHANGE
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Amoore100
> Arben72
08/24/2015 at 22:15 |
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Wow, that is the best idea I have ever heard! No, really! I wanted to go IS Sportcross but the Saabaru is even better since it’s more common and combines Saab cachet and Subaru reliability, although a standard Impreza wagon wouldn’t be a bad choice either...
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Amoore100
> TA4K
08/24/2015 at 22:15 |
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She probably won’t be driving so spiritedly, but I hope that something like that would get her into cars a bit despite all USDM models being automatic...
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Amoore100
> Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
08/24/2015 at 22:16 |
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That’s what I told her, but then I saw these two and I was like, “It couldn’t be that bad, right?” Thanks to Oppo for keeping me sane...
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Arben72
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:18 |
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Defintely a good choice. Nice and quiet, mines a lot quieter then the sti (other then the redicoulus exhaust), the n/a ones are super reliable and gets good gas mileage (out of subarus hg years). The auto is bullitproof. It's in general a nice and cozy car. I think their previous owners also took better care of them on average. Insurance is cheap on mine too.
FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:18 |
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This isn't necessarily the case. I bought a used ES300 once. Figured it was basically a Camry. What did go wrong were the things that weren't interchangible and they were expensive.
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Steve in Manhattan
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:19 |
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Volvo of some sort? Nice and safe.
Grindintosecond
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:19 |
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I drive an ‘08 Mazda 3 2.3 hatchback , It’s fantastic and uber reliable and gets 30mpg, has wonderful design. Dealer charges a bit over $200/axle to do the brakes...Toyota will change $300....Toyota costs more in regular maintenance. I support the Mazda decisions.
Logansteno: Bought a VW?
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:20 |
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No one has mentioned the Infiniti I30/I35 yet which is surprising. Basically a Maxima with more luxuries and badge prestige.
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FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
> Alex B
08/24/2015 at 22:24 |
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God no. Wife had a RAV4 from that era. Terrible car in every way. Transmission issues, VVT issues, AWD system issues. Cramped inside and criminally underpowered. Like couldn't maintain 65 on any incline at all. And to top it off it averaged 18 mpg. Dumped it with 70,000 miles and a slipping transmission.
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Amoore100
> Arben72
08/24/2015 at 22:29 |
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Awesome advice! Will take it to heart.
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Amoore100
> FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/24/2015 at 22:30 |
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Good to know. As always, well-maintained is better than ever.
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Amoore100
> Steve in Manhattan
08/24/2015 at 22:31 |
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I would but seeing as I have one already, she wants something of her own sort...not that she doesn’t like Volvos, but something different from mine...
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Amoore100
> Grindintosecond
08/24/2015 at 22:32 |
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Mazda is a good choice I did not predict. Good to know on the maintenance costs...
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Amoore100
> Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/24/2015 at 22:33 |
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I looked at them but I feel like they’re a bit too sedate for her nature...a G35 seems more up her alley, something smaller and tighter, although since she knows nothing about cars perhaps something more comfortable and FWD might be good as you say...
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Grindintosecond
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:37 |
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The manual....does 60 in second gear, 82+ in third, 105+ in 4th....so Once into second, the rest of them are closely spaced in a very nice way. If she’s an automatic person, well, it still handles phenomenal and has good space. Full sized suitcases in the back without folding down rear seats.
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Amoore100
> Grindintosecond
08/24/2015 at 22:39 |
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Def an automatic, at least at first since her parents are busy and she needs to be independently mobile as soon as possible (well, not a high priority but I imagine would make her parents’ lives much easier...) Still, great things to know as always. Will be making a spreadsheet of the suggestions...
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Logansteno: Bought a VW?
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:39 |
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FWD is definitely going to be a bit better for a new driver just because it's more understeery rather than spin you into a pole backwards in the wet oversteery. Plus the I30 is based on a maxima from before they got all huge and when the 4 Door Sports Car badge actually meant something so there's a bit of sporting character behind it.
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Amoore100
> Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/24/2015 at 22:45 |
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My grandmother had a Maxima of that gen and I recall it being quite nice...we don’t get any rain here (NorCal) but we are supposed to get some this winter, which could make conditions difficult (not for my V50 though, hopefully), so an I30 would be a good choice for the near future...
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Grindintosecond
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:46 |
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It’s a perfect first car then. The 6-disc cd changers break all the time in most cars that have them so keep that in mind. Otherwise, check it out...that or a boring ol camry.
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Amoore100
> Grindintosecond
08/24/2015 at 22:48 |
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Not a Camry...anything but...and a CD player is probably a bit important, seeing as she loves music...we’ll work it all out eventually...
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Round headlight enthusiast
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:52 |
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I’d recommend them 100% I bought my Integra (based off the EG) for $4k unmolested. You don’t get much in the way of modern anemities, build quality, or refinement, but the driving experience is unparalleled. Zippy is the best way to describe it. You just want to chuck it around corners all the time, despite the econobox roots
AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> Amoore100
08/24/2015 at 22:58 |
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2.8 Audi’s can be great, provided you’re ready for expensive timing belt jobs and the possibility of expensive oil leak fixes (or just top off frequently). I never ever ever ever ever recommend 1.8 Audi’s. Honestly mostly because 2nd and 3rd owners were probably douche-bros who bought the car because “turbo Audi bro!” And then drove the piss out of it and neglected maintenance and repairs for numerous reasons. If well-maintained they’re probably ok, but I’ve never seen one that was.
As others have already said, service records here are very important.
An Infiniti would be fantastic. Really underrated IMO. Even a G20 (sentra with leather). M45’s are awesome, wouldn’t mind one myself.
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Amoore100
> AMGtech - now with more recalls!
08/24/2015 at 23:00 |
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Japanese is top of the list right now, mainly because engine removal sounds not fun, and she needs basic transport with a few perks, mostly luxury because since she’s not a car girl so driving dynamics don’t matter highly...
gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> Amoore100
08/25/2015 at 00:03 |
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XJ Cherokee.
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Amoore100
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/25/2015 at 00:04 |
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Good suggestion, but not her type...
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gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
> Amoore100
08/25/2015 at 00:47 |
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Abandon her now.
Kidding.
...or am I?
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Amoore100
> gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
08/25/2015 at 01:28 |
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Not my girlfriend, or I would...jk...
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Money Hustard
> jkm7680
08/25/2015 at 06:55 |
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Something akin to being the tallest midget.