I need a Catfish

"Scary__goongala!" (corymagee) 08/04/2015 at 12:20 • Filed to: None

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But with what engine? hmmmm

aberson Bresident of the FullyAssed Committe > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:21

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Rolls Royce Merlin

Cherry_man1 > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:23

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Coyote: BOSS 302 spec.

Scary__goongala! > aberson Bresident of the FullyAssed Committe 08/04/2015 at 12:23

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That might be a little....excessive

Decay buys too many beaters > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:24

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A V8

Big engine in a small car with a manual transmission is basically all that is necessary for perpetual gearhead happiness.

HammerheadFistpunch > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:25

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Briggs and Straton V twin.

MultiplaOrgasms > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:26

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AJP.

Scary__goongala! > Cherry_man1 08/04/2015 at 12:27

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Well Coyote is the choice I would make for the V8 route.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:27

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I must to knowing more....

PS9 > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:29

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Dual Hartley V8. 10k+ RPM V16.

Scary__goongala! > MultiplaOrgasms 08/04/2015 at 12:29

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I don’t know what that is.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:29

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Scary__goongala! > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet 08/04/2015 at 12:30

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https://www.flyinmiata.com/catfish/index.… For your viewing pleasure.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:33

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danke

Scary__goongala! > PS9 08/04/2015 at 12:34

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That would be a short first drive...

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:34

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I think I would go with the FoST ecoboost personally, just enough to be quick but possibly not enough to bin the car

Scary__goongala! > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 08/04/2015 at 12:35

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Those ITBS...that noise....what is it, tell me now

Scary__goongala! > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet 08/04/2015 at 12:36

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Could that even work though since its a FWD engine?

MultiplaOrgasms > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:36

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Scary__goongala! > MultiplaOrgasms 08/04/2015 at 12:37

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wow

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:39

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Four rotor twincharged diesel wankel without apex seals.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:40

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Shouldn’t matter. Might actually improve oil pickup in the corners since the sump is narrower that way.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:45

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_UZ…

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 12:51

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I discovered this the other day, too, when talking about Exocet, another Miata-donor kit.

It is a Miata kit, so Miata is the first natural choice. Turbocharged or Supercharged Miata being an extension.

This is begging for a full set of V8Roadsters tubular chassis subframes, and Pro-series race-grade tubular control arms. Their front subframe is engineered for SBC implant, but can be customized. They have a version of that engine cradle without mounts at all, that can have fabricated mounts installed for any sort of engine.

SBC/LS engine, Ford small block, Ford modular/Coyote, are all do-able.

For a bit of retro, an aluminum Buick/Rover/TVR small displacement V8 could be used... but an aluminum truck-donor 5.3L LS engine is probably not much different in weight, and a lot different in power and maintenance.

Part of me really wants to go a different direction, and one that is both classically inspired, and modern-engineered, and another that goes beyond that.

Nissan RB-Inline6. The only reason I don’t say Toyota 2JZ, is because the Nissan RB flows from right to left in the engine bay, where Toyota 2JZ flows the opposite direction. I have seen highly customized Miatas using Nissan RB-I6 engines, and the exhaust stays on the left side, just like the Mazda’s own B-series I4, instead of having to plumb the exhaust to the other side.

There is a long history of european and japanese sports cars using inherently smooth, flexible Inline-6 power.

However Mazda doesn’t have much history with that engine format, because they use an alternative for smoothness and additional power.

Felix Wankel’s rotary engine. I think that is the direction I would go. Almost all of the fitment issues of a rotary engine in a Miata’s chassis are likely alleviated by the much more open and adaptable tube frame.

Catfish is a race car, from it’s tube chassis up, especially built with V8Roadster’s strong tubular subframes and suspension components, rather than stock Miata rubber-mounted stamped sheet metal and cast parts.

A wankel rotary, built well, is an AMAZING racing engine. It’s benefits suit racing VERY well, and it’s daily-driver downsides are mostly a moot point for a race car.

This car is BEGGING for peripheral-port 20B 3-rotor turbocharged engine. If I could figure out how to make it work properly, I would love to try to TWINCHARGE a 20B... with a huge turbocharger for high RPMs, and supplemented below that turbo’s spool speed with a Rotrak CVT-driven supercharger at lower engine RPMS. I would suggest turbine-compounding, and sole supercharging, if the supercharger compressor were versatile enough to supply pressure and volume across a rotary’s WIDE RPM band, but I am not sure any compressor is that good, so a small no-lag supercharger, and a huge, high-flow turbocharger above that might do the trick.

The only down side, is again, plumbing the insanely hot exhaust under the engine, to the Catfish’s left-side side pipe. It would all need to be heavily ceramic coated and insulated not to burn things, but Swaintech or Jet Hot might be able to handle that...

A robust sequential-shift racing gearbox with paddles on the steering column (even if it does keep a manually actuated clutch and pedal), and a Getrag 36-spline rear differential retrofit would be a good choice to back it up, and big Wilwood brakes, under light 6UL or Jongbloed racing wheels, and R-compound, but street-legal tires.

This has been occupying my mind for the last week or two.

Scary__goongala! > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 08/04/2015 at 13:01

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I really like the idea of a F20C from an S2k. Some people have figured out how to do the swap. V8s are awesome but to me they just don’t seem like the right fit for the personality of the car, or at least normal Miatas. There are certainly kinks to work out but if the Nissan engines can fit into the Miatas then it should fit in the kit. The Wankels just make me nervous personally.

needMORv8 now with more V8 > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 13:06

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not....gonna...fit I love the coyote but unfortunately due to it being DOHC it is externally physically HUGE. Any LS should fit though

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 13:06

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Don’t they put the duratec and ecoboost in Caterham’s?

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 13:11

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Jag v12?

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 13:13

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Oh, and I would build mine like this...

one main seat, and perhaps a detachable jump seat under the removable passenger side cockpit cover. One hoop, with the aero fairing option, and a simplified dash faired into the body, with a brooklands screen. There are gorgeous options for retro-backdating an NA Miata gauge panel.

I like silver, but I am thinking that it needs Ecurie Ecosse livery. The dark center treatment looks good... matte dry Carbon Fiber-look wrap look on the center, and possibly inset in the side character lines, too titanium white or light silver CF on the edging, like that signal orange border, and the main body color being Ecurie Ecosse Blue, would be a fantastic livery.

I have some ideas for full LED lighting, as well.

jmalek > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 13:19

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M50 all the things!

DogonCrook > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 08/04/2015 at 13:23

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Straight pipes are so loud on a rotory it’s mind bending. It isn’t pleasant at all. The exhaust is gonna be really tricky. Even with resonators it going to be really really loud.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 13:33

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Short of a rotary, I would be sorely tempted to go with the RB-series Nissan I6. I too like something other than the same old pushrod overhead-valve V8s all the time, and in everything.

S2000 power is interesting, but I like smooth firing 6-cylinders like I6s and flat-6s, without the crankshaft-offset that V6 bank angles require. S2000 is nice, but being an I4, I would wonder if it wouldn’t just be easier to use a built-up Miata engine, and the miata drivetrain that the car was initially designed around. it might not be the rev-monster that an F20C engine is, but a turbocharged or supercharged B-series Miata engine can probably make more power, and a LOT more torque, with the cost applied to tuning the engine, rather than fitting a honda drivetrain into the space where the Mazda is already designed to be, including the PowerPlant Frame between the transmission and rear differential.

If I were going to re-work the powertrain fitment, I would want a bit more of an upgrade than a different I4, such as an I6, or a Rotary, but that is just me.

With an Inline-6, however, the only thing that might not fit right, is the hood... if it is too low to clear the cam gears on the front of the engine. But being fiberglass, it can be cut and modified, like a Jaguar, Mercedes or Ferrari, or even Triumph, TVR, MGC, and Nissan Z-cars, which often used bulged hoods, and sometimes opened up the front as a hood scoop, to clear either I6 cylinder heads, or V12 down-draft carburetors. A slant-6 might work, but not many other than BMW, have modern I6s that are canted to one side to lower the cylinder head height.

BMW might be interesting, but perhaps not the least expensive donor engine to use in this context. It might be do-able, though it would take some doing, engineering-wise. It worked for Z3 and Z4 for that layout.

If using the vertical Nissan RB engine, the next question would be whether to use a stock Nissan GTR-spec RB26DETT or something, or try to piece together a high-compression naturally aspirated engine with independent throttle bodies, and a nicely tuned header. There is something to be said about a pure, easy-breathing, atmospheric engine, and it’s instant response and feedback.

There were many variants of the Nissan RB-series engine, the only down-side is that they need to be imported, as most USDM Nissan products didn’t offer that engine. 280ZX still used the old SOHC L-series I6, and after that, the Z31 300ZX and later have all used V6 engines, rather than I6 engines that the Skylines continued to use overseas.

Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Aston Martin, Toyota, and Nissan used I6s, and they are a great mix of smooth and powerful. V12s are bigger to package, and flat-6s are great for their own reasons, but have a width concern in front-engined applications between steered tires that require that space. if it were aft-engined, I would be suggesting Subaru or Porsche power, if not enamored with rotary power.

Ford also has a nice DOHC I6, but it is australian-market, as I6 use in USDM Fords pretty much evaporated in favor of pushrod V8s, which lead to OHC V8s in the 199os. GM also used DOHC I6 engines in south america and europe, but again, use dwindled in the US, due to the prevalence of the pushrod V8.

revrseat70 > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 13:35

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Ecoboost from a new Mustang would be good for power, weight distribution, and boost

But I would think the driver’s choice would be a k24 with a k20 head. Bulletproof, screams, lightweight

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > DogonCrook 08/04/2015 at 13:53

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Yeah, that is an issue.

But it is a race car, and noise is part of the deal.

The side pipe on the Catfish, in the left side rocker area, does have a long open-core muffler, which might not do that much.

The exhaust would also have to come from the right side of the engine bay, under the back of the engine and bell housing... which presents a heat issue, too.

Perhaps some sort of resonator could be used on that cross-under pipe, and some sort of same-side in-and-out chambered muffler could be arranged vertically, and hidden under the fender bodywork behind the left front wheel, where the cross under pipe would feed up into it, and the outlet would then go to the side pipe muffler... and try to dampen the sound (and also a lot of radiant heat insulation) to keep it in check a bit.

Mercedes and McLaren somehow built a whole exhaust system into the front fenders of the McLaren SLR...

A slatted treatment for air extraction around that exhaust system, might look cool on a Catfish, too.

Baeromez > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 14:05

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Hartley H1

Scary__goongala! > Baeromez 08/04/2015 at 14:15

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holy shit

Scary__goongala! > revrseat70 08/04/2015 at 14:15

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I like the idea of a F20c from an S2k

Baeromez > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 14:17

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I really can’t figure out why anyone uses anything else, ever.

Scary__goongala! > jmalek 08/04/2015 at 14:19

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What about S50 all the things?!?!

Scary__goongala! > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet 08/04/2015 at 14:22

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Yup they do

BRyan31122 > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 17:16

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Simple, BMW S54B32 w/ CSL Intake.

M/A Inline 6’s are perfect for roadsters. This ~3.0L N/A, puts out 315hp, with a silky smooth throttle response, and sounds fantastic. There’s plenty of juice to get you going in such a light chassis, but not too much, allowing you to enjoy the little nuances of the cars handling.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

BRyan31122 > BRyan31122 08/04/2015 at 17:41

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N/A*

revrseat70 > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 17:41

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Definitely less fiddling around going that route. Less torque.. But also bulletproof

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Scary__goongala! 08/04/2015 at 19:51

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A TVR guy doesn’t know what an AJP is?

Scary__goongala! > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 08/04/2015 at 19:57

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....no:(