I have never heard of this

"WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe" (wesbarton89) 07/30/2015 at 14:35 • Filed to: None

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So, when I went to get an oil change recently on the Infiniti, I asked about a transmission fluid flush and filter change, because I figure it probably needed it. The place told me that doing that, on a 15 year old vehicle with nearly 260k miles is a bad idea and could mess the car up, because “it’s used to the old fluid, and needs an old fluid base in there.”

That sounds absolutely ridiculous. Has anyone here been discouraged from doing a fluid and filter change on a transmission? Sure, vehicle is 15 years old, with relatively high mileage, but for all intents and purposes, it’s a relatively modern car. I just thought it sounded really dumb. But I’m not a transmission expert, so I don’t know.

TheHondaBro > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:37

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They’re right.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:37

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That sounds like lazy mechanic talk

Snuze: Needs another Swede > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:37

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No, that’s pretty much true. When you flush, it stirs up all the old crap in there which can ruin it.

Nibbles > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:38

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I don’t know your particular transmission, but the 4Txx auto trannies from GM are notorious for dying within a couple hundred miles of a flush, if they’ve been run for ages without one.

Alfalfa > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:38

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That’s news to me.

for Michigan > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:41

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On my 30-year-old automatic Pontiac with 150K miles that’s likely never had it’s fluid changed ever, I would agree. Old GMs are notorious for auto trans failures aftered deferred maintenance.

On a 15-year-old Infiniti? Seems a little fishy to me.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:41

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If it is running okay, leave it alone. As counterintuitive as it might seem, flushing can damage the parts because it will stir up all kinds of shit

BigBlock440 > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:41

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That’s pretty much the rule of thumb, if you keep up on fluid/filter changes, it’ll be fine, but if it hasn’t been changed for 100,000 miles, you’re better off not even opening that box.

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > Nibbles 07/30/2015 at 14:42

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Well, I’ve not ever seen record of a flush on my car. So, it may be true here as well. And if it’s been 260k without a flush, then I may hold off.

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > TheHondaBro 07/30/2015 at 14:43

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You say that as though I do actually shower. Maybe I prefer the dirt.*

*note: I do not prefer dirt and prefer to be clean/

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > Alfalfa 07/30/2015 at 14:43

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Me as well. But I’m not in the auto service business.

Baeromez > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:44

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You can stir up all the little metal shavings and junk that are accumulated in the bottom of the pan if you flush it after suck a long interval. It has nothing to do with the fluid itself, that’s just dummy talk.

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! 07/30/2015 at 14:47

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It’s been slipping a bit. CEL code shows output speed sensor malfunction. I’ve since replaced that twice to no avail. It’s not a constant issue, but it’s annoying. It’ll stick in first or second gear. I have to shut it off and turn it back on to get it to shift again.

bryan40oop > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:47

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If you flush the old fluid, you risk flushing the friction material from the transmissions drums/plates as well. Over time the friction material on the drums/plates break away and end up floating around & recirculating throughout the transmission. If you flush it, you lose that material and risk the clutches/drums slipping due to the loss of material and the plates/drums not having enough friction to engage.

The mechanic isn’t crazy, he’s honestly looking out for you (or just doesn’t want you to come back within 100 miles saying he screwed up)

Nibbles > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:48

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If they use a machine to actually flush the transmission then yes you’re in for a world of hurt. All the gunk that has built up in crevices and corners will be released and allowed to wreak havoc on your precious sensibilities planetaries.

If you just drain, drop the pan, replace filter and fluid, you should be just fine.

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > BigBlock440 07/30/2015 at 14:48

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Don’t think it’s ever been changed at all, according to the records I have. Oil changes were always done right on cue, as well as other routine maintenance. Just not that.

davedave1111 > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:49

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Did you mean to imply that you’d like to wash but are somehow prevented from doing so?

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:50

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I’ve heard that too, no idea how true it is.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:51

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Sounds like you’ve got a GM transmission. Those do that with like 15k miles. Lol

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Nibbles 07/30/2015 at 14:52

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What happens if you just replace the fluid without doing a fancy flush, or if you bleed off pints at a time? There’s gotta be a way...

Nibbles > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/30/2015 at 14:53

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If you don’t flush and instead drain, drop, replace (filter and fluid), you should be just fine.

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > davedave1111 07/30/2015 at 14:54

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My comment makes no sense now that HondaBro edited his comment! Lol. No, I keep clean.

deekster_caddy > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:58

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A basic pan drop and filter change should be done. A flush can stir shit up, lodge chunks of crap in solenoid openings, crap like that.

Apparently it’s a lot of opinion.. High milage auto transmissions require some special voodoo shit to keep them going.

mechanicjim > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:58

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for the most part at that age and mileage save to have it fix later flushing is only going to kill the transmission faster ATF is a detergent and will kill the clutch packs if you flush or change fluid

Alfalfa > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 14:59

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I have heard the one about stirring up particles in older transmissions when flushed, some people are against ever flushing any trans because of it, but the ‘old base’ thing seems odd.

Jcarr > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 15:00

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Flushes are bad ideas in general. Always go for a pan drop if at all possible.

Party-vi > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 15:00

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It’s your mechanic hand-wringing and bullshitting you out of a service you need so they aren’t responsible if your transmission shits the bed after they flush it. The idea is, by flushing the old fluid they might loosen up some gunk or metal bits that were previously causing no issues, only to have them block some passage or fluid journal in the transmission and ruin it. BMW Annapolis told me the same thing, and 50,000 miles after having my transmission serviced by an independent shop it’s still fine.

Your fluid needs changed. Heat degrades transmissions and fluid rapidly. I would suggest every 60,000 miles to get your fluid replaced.

HammerheadFistpunch > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 15:04

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I’ve heard that, and the explanations here are basically the reason. That having been said, its a good idea to do a “pan off” change everyone once and a while to replace the filter, inspect the valve body and to make sure that the suspended particulates are flushed off the pan and not brought back into circulation. If you can do a “pan off” service it might not be a bad idea.

davedave1111 > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 15:04

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Hah, I saw it before, but it’s funnier now :)

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 15:09

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They’re half wrong. Yes, you should change the fluid. DO NOT FLUSH IT! Just pull the old fluid out and replace it. You might want to do this several times and put a magnet on your transmission if it didn’t come with one. Autos are supposed to have their fluid changed regularly, but no one ever does it. As a result, all of the metal shavings from 260k miles of gears meeting build up. If you flush it, these get stirred and then get recirculated through the system, which will increase wear and create potential for clogging the lubricration system. This is why I would recommend doing it a few times if you’re going to do it. You want to get that shit out without circulating it through your transmission. If not done correctly, it’s better to just not change it at this point.

WRXerFish - WRX-Wing pilot > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 15:10

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I have heard this but only when referring to a vehicle near this age that has never been serviced.

Did it anyway and it was fine. Was a ‘90 Buick Riviera with 228k miles on the clock.

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > Alfalfa 07/30/2015 at 15:12

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That’s probably what the tech meant. Just dumbed down.

jariten1781 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/30/2015 at 15:33

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Yeah, if you want to change fluid in an older automatic you do a series of drain and fills. 3 is the rule of thumb with a few days driving between each of the changes to ensure all the stuff in the torque converter cycles back out and is diluted.

Never a machine unless the service schedule calls for it and you stay on that schedule.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Snuze: Needs another Swede 07/30/2015 at 15:33

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I see in another reply below that you said the trans is slipping in 1st/2nd and throwing a speed sensor code. I didn’t realize that you’re having problems, I thought you were just looking to get it done as a maintenance item.

This complicates things, because a couple things could be going on, and a couple things could happen depending on your course of action.

You could do nothing with the transmission, which means its not going to get any better. And if it’s starting to slip, the clutches/bands could be worn due to never having had the fluid changed. If you keep driving it, they will keep wearing, and eventually fail. You will need a new transmission or have your rebuilt.

Replace fluid. I’m not talking about a flush, just drop the pan, change the filter, replace the pan, add new fluid. Doing this only replaces about half the fluid, though. There’s still a lot left in the torque converter and other part of the transmission, so when you’re done you will have like a 50/50 of old and new fluid. Not ideal but potentially better than doing nothing. This is also the least risky way to do this as it minimizes the chance of disturbing all the crud. This may or may not fix your issues, it depends entirely on how badly everything is worn inside.

Flush. This is the one I, and several others, are advising against. Over time, and many heat cycles, the fluid begins to kind of coagulate, get crusty, however you want to look at it, and this stuff forms deposits and sediment inside the trans. When you flush, you are putting the trans under pressure to blow all of the fluid out so you can completely fill it back up with all new fluid. The problem is pressurizing it blows all this loose sediment and crap around, and it can get into parts like the valve body, and destroy the transmission. As with outcome one, you will either need a new transmission or a rebuild.

So the issue is what do you pick? It’s hard to say, because no one can predict the outcome with 100% certainty. I think if you do nothing, it will fail eventually, as with any mechanical device that isn’t services. Replacing the fluid and filter with no flush could help or could not. I think you’re less likely to stir up crud, but it could still happen. But you’re only getting half new fluid, it may not help the slipping, etc. Flushing, I think, is likely to cause some damage, but that’s not a certainty. And depending on how worn the internals are, it could potentially still not fix your problem.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > jariten1781 07/30/2015 at 15:39

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Not related to that, but I thought you might be interested to hear: I have finished On Blue’s Waters (Book of the Short Sun #1) and got the other two BotSS in hardcover to read next. Fascinating stuff.

jariten1781 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/30/2015 at 15:45

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Awesome. They re-print it or’d you pick up a used copy? It was hard to find for a while back in 05 or so before all the on-line used markets were up and running.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > jariten1781 07/30/2015 at 15:50

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Used copy, haven’t checked on the age. Nearly brand new condition, all three books in hardcover. I got the first one from off the shelf with its siblings, and in the intervening time nobody grabbed the other two. Wolfe isn’t as well known as he might be around here, I don’t think.

mechanicjim > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 16:08

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and the truth comes out. Did you check the wiring to the sensor before throwing parts at it? Did you see if your scanner can give you live data of the sensor? How rusty is this Infiniti?( I’m from Chicago standard question) would you spend $1200-1500 on this car? The transmission wont get better on its own and I think snuse the slobolt has a good line of thought on what your options are but I would say a transmission dedicated shop will be the best if you do decide to crack the transmission open for fluid change or do two birds have the transmission shop diagnose the code and ask if they would do the fluid

side note I’m ASE certified and have had this conversation with lots of customers it all depends on how much you wanna spend

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > mechanicjim 07/30/2015 at 16:30

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The wiring seems to be good. I don’t think the scanner gives me live date. There’s not a whole lot of rust. Bubbling around the gas tank, top of the windshield, and wheel arches, and a tiny spot of surface at the rockers. There’s also several rock chips on the hood that have turned to rust. Probably 8 or 9 of them no larger than the head of a pin. I’ve already had it to a dedicated transmission shop, and they were the ones who told me about the speed sensor. I’m taking it to a certified Nissan (same auto trans, and mostly same setup as 5th gen Maxima) dealership for further diagnosis on Monday.

I’ve mentioned the issue a couple times before on here. I’ll have the Nissan techs double check the wiring and all the connections though.

As far as the fluids go, I can take it to my stepdad’s for a drain. He has a three-ton floor jack and a garage with two Snap-On chests full of tools.

If I have to go back to a dedicated tranny place, I will, but they’re expensive. It was almost $200 for a check on it last time, and they found no issues with the transmission itself.

Thanks for the advice!

mechanicjim > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 16:39

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no problem and....its a Nissian....trust me they don’t change too much between them and Infiniti

mechanicjim > WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe 07/30/2015 at 16:43

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look at support for hood latch in front of radiator at bottom that spot loves to rust out on these easy fix for a decent welder and yea just have them double check also if you can take a look and smell of fluid off the dipstick see what that’s like it’ll help you know how bad

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > mechanicjim 07/30/2015 at 16:49

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Already had the radiator support fixed. That was a very common issue apparently. I read a lot about it before I purchased the car. It had to be fixed to pass inspection, but my stepdad and his guys got it taken care of. And yeah, I’ll take a look at the fluid. Last time I checked it, it didn’t smell burnt or look bad. Certainly no leaks. In fact, nothing at all leaks on this car.