How To Beat An "As-Is" Car Purchase - Podcast And Video

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 07/30/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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If you know me, you know that my middle name is DO NOT BUY AS-IS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING . But, there are ways to beat an as-is car purchase. It ain’t easy but knowing this will help you.

I have written about !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , primarily because I am convinced that most people don’t know what it means. (You are buying something with no Implied Warranty of Merchantability.) Couple that with the usual disclaimers used car sellers use (“Nothing the salesman says to you is enforceable unless contained in writing on this purchase agreement”) and most buyers roll off the lot with no recourse if the car explodes anon.

And, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! are automatically as-is in many states.

You need to be aware that, notwithstanding everything above, the as-is disclaimer is not the double-secret get-out-of-jail-free card many people think it is for the dealer. It does not protect the seller from violations of statutes nor from claims of fraud or misrepresentation. Not even breach of express warranties or warranty of title.

So, in this week’s Lehto’s Law , I explain that in a little more detail and tell the story of my favorite example of this. Where my client bought a used car as-is and the engine exploded forthwith. Her mechanic noted how the crankcase had been filled with something heavy (gear lube?) to likely mask a rod knock. The same rod which threw itself as the engine died by the side of the road.

After a 3-day trial, the jury agreed and the as-is didn’t help this seller AT ALL.

The Podcast is here:

https://soundcloud.com/stevelehto/how…

And the video is here:

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 23 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 09:32

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On an unrelated note, Steve I was at the Gilmore last saturday for the MOPAR show, and I noticed they no longer house the Tucker archive, do you know where they moved too?

SteveLehto > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 07/30/2015 at 09:33

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The Tucker archival material is owned by the TACA (The Tucker Club) and they are in the process of moving them to a new location. I don’t know if they have found it yet.

windzilla > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 09:36

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A year ago, i traded in my 08 CTS for an 07 Toyota Sienna, i was tired of hauling sod in the CTS as much as i enjoyed the car, I actually also love me a minivan.

Anyway, at the time of trade in/purchase (basically i negotiated an even swap which i felt was fair) I was going to pay, and the dealer paperwork said no warrenty instead of the standard 3k 3month that CT has by law for vehicles of a certain age blah blah. the car had aged 1 month since when i started negotiations, and thus was now being sold AS-IS.

I don’t know how it worked, but I mind-tricked the dealer, and simply said, oh, it says no warrenty, it has a warrenty.

they said, really? and i said yes, it has a warrenty.

3 weeks later, i brought the car back, and had them fix what was supposedly just a squeeking belt, they gave me a loaner and off i went.

6 weeks and 6 trips to speak to a manager and remind them it was covered later, they finally got the loaner they let me have when i first left the car with them, and I had a new water-pump alternator and a host of other parts.

damn thing still squeals though.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 09:40

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Oh, sure, the monkey seems like it’s got it all under control now, but try teaching him about the spark advance and I’m sure it’ll all come to pieces. I think the relief driver plan is a wee tad too ambitious.

SteveLehto > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/30/2015 at 09:41

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But at least they are all dressed appropriately for a day of motoring.

drdude > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 09:43

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Its funny how on this subject.. I already know everything you’re going to say..... yet I listen anyway. (hard for me to hear, but you didnt type it all out this time.. :p )

I have no idea why I find this subject so interesting.

SteveLehto > drdude 07/30/2015 at 09:45

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But doesn’t it add something when you hear me tell it in my folksy way?

I mean, everyone knew what Roosevelt was going to say in his Fireside Chats but it made the country feel safer!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 09:48

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Indeed.

drdude > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 09:48

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I dont need your sales puffery.

The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 09:51

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I bought my 300ZX from a mechanic who swore to me up and down with some new rear shocks, the car would comply with the safety needed to regulate it for the road. Because he worked for the dealership where I sold cars, I trusted his word (you can see where this is going).

So, I take it to the Nissan dealer, and find out that the car had previously been in an accident, most recently in fact, where the entire right rear underside of the car has been haphazardly replaced with a welded in piece of another 300ZX. That’s right - my car had been literally patched. I was informed that it would never be able to be safetied for the road in Ontario.

I go back to the mechanic and I say to him “I trusted your word, since you were my mechanic before, I work with you, and you’re certified.” The guy literally laughed in my face, told me he sold it to me “As-Is”, and “What are you going to do about it?” and asked where the rest of his $3500 was (I had given him 1800).

I told him that it was where the sun doesn’t shine, and that he was an idiot for writing me a receipt of sale for the car of $500, and I walked out with his buddies holding him back.

Lesson learned: Don’t trust buying cars from mechanics. Always bring a secondary mechanic - cause mechanics are in the best position to screw someone over.

jimz > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 09:56

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still a better driver than your average 17-year-old texting dumbshit.

dreygata > jimz 07/30/2015 at 10:00

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Or your 35 year old texting dumbshit..... The adults are just as guilty, if not more so since they justify it as “it’s for work” or something to that nature. It’s also setting a bad precedent for any children in the car while they do it.

SteveLehto > drdude 07/30/2015 at 10:01

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You have learned well.

pierce is a b > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 10:01

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Ypsilanti would be nice

SteveLehto > jimz 07/30/2015 at 10:03

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Sadly, the monkey was killed while texting and driving 5 minutes after this picture was taken.

The text said, “HEE, HEEE, HEEEE [monkey sounds]” and then, “OH SHIT!”

drdude > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 10:06

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The best part of you saying that, is I have it in writing.

vailima750 > windzilla 07/30/2015 at 10:23

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*warranty (I’ll delete this post if you want, just looking out for ya)

ED9man2 > The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL 07/30/2015 at 10:28

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Who doesn’t peek under a car before they buy it?

spngr311 > The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL 07/30/2015 at 10:34

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Something poetic about a car salesman and a mechanic screwing each other over...

Rand0nS > The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL 07/30/2015 at 10:40

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So in this story you were both stupid?

You for not having the car inspected before giving any money.

Him for not getting full payment before you had a chance to have it inspected.

Awesome.

Elvisisdead > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 10:53

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I know this is a sort of stupid comment, but I just don’t know why it’s so difficult for people to be honest. In the car business, honesty will be rewarded. “Gear Oil Operations” (new term of art) will atrophy over time. The worst part about it is that stuff like this totally screws over the honest folks, because the public in general then thinks that everyone is trying to gear oil them.

staghounds > Rand0nS 07/30/2015 at 11:26

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I’ll bet you got more than $1800 for the parts though. So you won the battle of the chumps.

Haze > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 11:38

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Not sure how it works out in Michigan, but in Pennsylvania any statements made by a dealer in the selling of a used car are enforceable as express warranties to the condition of the car if they are specific and not mere puffery. To that end, I was once asked to look at a car a girl had put $800 down on. I drive down to the lot with her, open the hood and there are edges of an obviously ill fitting after market head gasket hanging out from the engine. I look at the guy and ask him if they did a head gasket ... silence. I point it out, and ask him if that looks after market to him ... silence. This guy was pretty good! We get in, flip it over, the warning lights and a chime come on and it won’t maintain an idle, keeps revving all over the place. I look at the girl, and I am like, you put $800 on this? She said sure she liked it. I asked if all the red lights and the warning chime didn’t bother her. She hadn’t noticed. (I could not believe that myself). Look at salesman, this seems to have an unstable idle what do you think ... silence. We drive a mile bring it back. I look at her, and tell her that she is insane, and that the car will most likely need a $2,500 head job at a minimum then we ask for her deposit back, which he very nicely gave her before we left the lot. An extremely professional used car salesman ... still willing to stick a very young woman with a car that would drain her bank account.

SteveLehto > Haze 07/30/2015 at 11:42

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This is also true in Michigan. The hard part is proving it. Most sellers here have the buyer sign an acknowledgement that there are no verbal agreements and nothing the salesman says is enforceable.

You can try going to court and saying that the seller both said something and then disclaimed it but most judges will look at the document you signed and ask, “If this statement isn’t true, why did you sign it?”

Obviously, I am referring to dealerships. Individuals rarely (if ever) ask buyers to sign anything like that.

Mercwri > Elvisisdead 07/30/2015 at 12:39

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Basically this, I worked for a combo Repair Shop/Gas Station/Used Car Dealer. My boss had come up with a clever ideal for what he sold.

He called that Ideal a “Nice Car”, a “Nice Car” was any car that made him money OR provided value.

If the car came back with an issue, that erroded at the value of the car, and so if a car looked like it might have an issue that would bring it back he’d evalute the cost/benefit of fixing it first or passing the car onto a wholesaler.

The Goal was to sell a Car, collect the money, and then only ever see the customer again if they decided to use us to service the car in the future, or if they referred a friend to us. Having the customer comeback for an issue with the car was the LAST thing we wanted.

Entropy Is So Degrading > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 12:56

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Why would anybody sign such a document?

SteveLehto > Entropy Is So Degrading 07/30/2015 at 12:58

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From a dealer or an individual? If I tell you there is an open recall on the car and you hear me say it and agree to buy the car, why wouldn’t you sign a receipt that says, “Seller told buyer about the open recall [#]”?

I know people are scared to sign stuff but a simple one or two sentence document that is as clear as that can’t possibly hurt you (unless you hope to lie later and say you weren’t told).

windzilla > vailima750 07/30/2015 at 13:15

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No need to delete, I realized when reading it later. I have real problems with spelling, and have for my entire life. I missed alot of recess for poor spelling and an inability to grerund a pronoun, or whatever Grammer is.

Luckily computers help with those problems, but not when I post from my phone in a hurry.

Stevie Welles > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 13:15

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Bought a truck sight unseen (essentially) in Ohio from Michigan. My wife went down to finalize the purchase and drive it back. The dealer vociferously advertised the heated seats, one of which was determined after the fact to not work. He said there was 40% tread left on the tires, when there was not. He said he “had it checked out” to make sure it was in good working order and safe to drive. Turns out the shocks were shot, the tires were bald, the heated seat didn’t work, the axle shaft needed replacing, and at 132,000 miles, the timing belt hadn’t been done. A year of arguing with the dealer later, I’m seriously wondering if I have any legal recourse...

SteveLehto > Stevie Welles 07/30/2015 at 13:19

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Contact an OH attorney. Do you have copies of anything verifying that those statements were made?

Entropy Is So Degrading > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 13:29

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I’m talking about signing something that nullifies anything the sales weasel says. I would never do that.

SteveLehto > Entropy Is So Degrading 07/30/2015 at 13:31

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Every sales agreement I have seen in the last 10 years has had that language. Most people don’t even know it is there.

Entropy Is So Degrading > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 13:59

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I haven’t purchased a car in a very long time. I’m just the kind of guy who would actually read the “agreement” and then proceed to take a red pen and strike through the items I patently disagree with. I know that wouldn’t hold any water with them, but to see the look on their face when I explain that an agreement is a two-way street would be worth it.

Stevie Welles > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 14:27

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Yes. They were all made in emails.

Stevie Welles > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 14:43

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Any Ohio attorney recommendations?

SteveLehto > Stevie Welles 07/30/2015 at 14:44

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Not off the top of my head. Just google “Ohio lemon law attorneys” and call a few (even though this is not lemon law they should know the answer to that question.)

Stevie Welles > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 14:54

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Thanks!

Hi there > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 15:17

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Hi Steve, thanks for the delineation of this particularly sticky subject. However, something I noticed throughout the video is that you are sweating a good deal. Is your air conditioning system out of order? If so, I hope you get it fixed soon.

SteveLehto > Hi there 07/30/2015 at 15:24

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Damn bright lights of Hollywood. Once I am rolling I try not to wipe my face and so on. That looks even worse (I think!)

Thanks for watching.

Hi there > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 15:30

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No problem, but if you have problems with lighting you might want to look at a camera with a larger sensor to capture more light. Or it would be cheaper and generate markedly less heat (vs your existing lights) to replace those lights with LED’s.

SteveLehto > Hi there 07/30/2015 at 15:56

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Still dialing it in. I shoot these at home and have decent lights. The answer would be to crank the air on a day like that (it WAS hotter than usual.)

AFSpecialSauce > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 16:40

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Kinda feel like there should be a Law and Order ‘doink doink’ at the start of your video.

Mirror Universe Stig > SteveLehto 07/30/2015 at 20:38

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We’ve shot some sketch comedy, and the lights to shoot quality HD generate huge amounts of heat. We crank the AC down to 60 degrees and practically refrigerate the place, and only flip on the lights when shooting. Even then, they quickly cook up a residence. A little better in office buildings, you put a huge fan in the doorway and keep it on when you’re not actually filming, so the air gets moved around.

Elvisisdead > Mercwri 07/31/2015 at 11:00

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Exactly. In contract language, make sure both sides benefit. Only way to be sure you successfully stay in business.