Car Maintenance Question for Oppo

"All Motor Is Best Motor" (acidicheartburn)
07/28/2015 at 12:12 • Filed to: Failmatic Transmissions

So I took my car in to a Valvoline for an oil change. At the end of the change the guy handling the paperwork says my auto trans fluid is high and something about it that might possibly be from it breaking down. I looked for myself and it is indeed high.

Normally I could just drain some fluid until the level is correct, but that sounded funny to me so I googled it and I cannot find much of anything with regards to auto trans fluid breaking down and increasing fluid level. Is this a thing? Should I just have my fluid replaced? The trans only has 28,000 miles on it (so the fluid shouldn’t have been messed with at all) and Acura recommends a trans fluid replacement every 90,000 miles so I can’t imagine why my fluid would be breaking down.

I did read that too much AT fluid can start to bubble and become frothy, reducing its cooling and lubricating effectiveness and that is a valid concern, but the fluid on the dipstick only went up to about here:

I’m making a bit of a big deal about this because of the history associated with this !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

The link says it’s related to the torque converter but in actuality many of the problems relate to quality issues with the clutch packs in the transmission, especially 3rd gear, which likes to wear down, get hot, and fail, spreading metal chunks throughout the whole trans.

So, should I replace the fluid because it’s high or just drain a little until the level is correct?

Edit: Added link

DISCUSSION (21)

thebigbossyboss > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:17

I have no idea but am glad to have steered clear of that particular transmission.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:18

I’d go to an old school, long-in-the-tooth transmission shop in your neighborhood and ask them. If they’re worth anything at all, they’ll be happy to advise you. You might even visit a couple of shops and see how their recommendations line up.

For my part, there’s shop nearby who has rebuilt two (GM) transmissions for me and I get my automatics regularly serviced by him every 30k miles and I go to him periodically to ask him to check the fluid level for me.

All Motor Is Best Motor > thebigbossyboss
07/28/2015 at 12:18

This is the third trans in this car.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
07/28/2015 at 12:21

I have the means to just drain some fluid this weekend so I’d rather just see if anyone on here knows first, but I’ll definitely do that if nobody on Oppo knows for sure.

McMike > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:25

Mrs McMike bought a 2003 Civic 4AT new.

Auto fluid change interval was 65K miles. Auto trans was replaced under warranty at 60K miles. I was told it was the lack of proper filtering is what killed the clutch packs. They would get hot, shed more material, which would block filter flow, making them hot, then lose more material, etc. etc.. It started slipping going into 2nd and 3rd. When cold, it would slip quite a bit.

The dealer had serviced the car at every 10K mark (I did the 5K services) and they changed teh fluid every time they got it, which I found odd. Why change a 60K item every 10K miles unless you are trying to push something outside of the warranty period?

BigBlock440 > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:31

First thought, are you checking the fluid correctly? I’m not sure the particular requirements for your car, but most have to be warm with the engine running, sometimes in park, sometimes in neutral, or the dipstick will read high.

JGrabowMSt > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:34

Overfull transmissions are passable. Based on your crude but easy to digest diagram, all bueno. My HEMIWagon has a tad much fluid in it, much like yours and on rare occasions due to the planets aligning a certain way, the extra fluid can vent and it will spray onto my headers causing a tiny smoke show. Nothing to be super alarmed about.

Slightly over full is better than slightly under low.

But certainly ask another shop for a second opinion. Also, as far as trans fluid foaming and decreasing in effectiveness, we’ll say it would have to be significantly higher than that to pose a problem, and it would attempt to vent the excess fluid as well.

All Motor Is Best Motor > McMike
07/28/2015 at 12:34

That sounds pretty much right on the money with how these lemons go. Some guy on the cl.acurazine.com forum did an in depth look into the trans problems by reading Honda’s documents from their investigation into the trans problems and broke it down to basically low quality clutch packs, poor filtering, and poor transmission cooling. These transmissions get way hotter than they should and on cars like my 01 CL Type S are pushed harder than they can handle. 2nd to 3rd is usually the first one to fail/start failing, as that clutch pack was the one with the most heat and wear issues. Honda tried to band-aid the issue by installing a fluid injector right on the clutch pack but it wasn’t very effective.

In my case my second transmission (first was replaced under the recall warranty extension) died after 17,000 miles with no warning.

VincentMalamute-Kim > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:34

Did the guy at Valvoline and you check the level using the protocol for your transmission? Usually it’s with the car running. Check your owner’s manual for the procedure. In your car, it looks like it might be with the car warmed up and then turned off. My friend’s Audi had some overly exacting Germanic procedure like hook up the OBDII reader, idle the car until the trans temp read exactly 90 degrees (or something), and then take the level reading.

Don’t know how the level might be high unless they put too much fluid in when they replaced the transmission. That’s believable.

My experience with transmission shops is whatever issue your transmission has, their reply is always “Your transmission needs to be rebuilt”.

All Motor Is Best Motor > BigBlock440
07/28/2015 at 12:35

Yeah, I followed the manual and online recommendations. Basically, make sure the engine is warm and you’ve gone through all the gears in the trans by driving it, then check it with the engine OFF on a flat, level surfice, while in PARK. It’s definitely high.

All Motor Is Best Motor > JGrabowMSt
07/28/2015 at 12:37

It’s actually a little higher than the crude marking I made, now that I look at it better. I haven’t noticed any changes in behavior with the trans either.

McMike > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:38

We’re somewhere in the 150K range now. Replacement transmission is good transmission.

All Motor Is Best Motor > VincentMalamute-Kim
07/28/2015 at 12:40

As I said in the top paragraph, I checked it for myself (yes I made sure to use exactly the proper procedure for this model) and it’s definitely high. Car needs to be off, engine warm, having gone through the gears in the trans by driving it, in park, on a level surface.

JGrabowMSt > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:40

Nah, id go for a second opinion, but not sweat it. Low fluid is much worse than a little high.

Also, trans fluid level will be affected by heat greatly. They may have checked it warm or hot when its only supposed to be checked cold. Makes a really big difference actually.

BigBlock440 > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:40

Odd, have you ever checked it before? Maybe it was always high. I’ve never heard of a fluid breaking down and expanding in volume.

I’m not a trans guy though.

All Motor Is Best Motor > JGrabowMSt
07/28/2015 at 12:41

The owner’s manual says it needs to be checked warm, which it was.

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:43

I’m the furthest thing you can get to a professional, but I’m thinking the min and max marks on the dipstick are probably set at conservative limits, and could go further either a little bit, but yeah I have no idea.

JGrabowMSt > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 12:46

Well, I wouldn’t sweat it. Get a second opinion and make a decision then. If you know the exact fluid quantity, you could even just change it yourself, no big deal.

All Motor Is Best Motor > BigBlock440
07/28/2015 at 13:20

Yeah I’ve never actually checked it myself before on this car. the breaking down thing sounds weird I know, which is why I am asking here. He probably was ralking about how it could get frothy if too high. I will probably just drain some out.

E92M3 > All Motor Is Best Motor
07/28/2015 at 13:56

Nothing to worry about (unlike over filling engine oil).

All Motor Is Best Motor > JGrabowMSt
07/28/2015 at 16:52

I was thinking of changing it anyway. Many of the guys on the cl.acurazine.com forums recommend the fluid be changed as often as every 30,000 miles, some do it even more often. Apparently the trans holds 9 quarts and drains exactly 3 from the drain plug, so what people do is drain 3, refill it, drive it, and do that a total of 3 times so you’ve changed “about” 9 quarts. In reality you’re still going to be left with about 30% of the original fluid if you do it that way, but some guys say this might be better than a flush because a flush could stir up old contaminants and spread them through the trans. Who really knows, though. It’s impossible to test whether a flush or the 3x3 method would make for a longer lasting trans, especially given that none of these transmissions are anywhere close to identical in longevity.